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What's the reason behind using 240V inverters with transformers when they have split phase ones?

Post 55

"For those that are looking for a system to actually run something? Duh!

This is about comparing the capacity of various split phase inverter setups. We don't care about your puny system."

Post 68

"If the neutral goes open, you will feed 240V out on the 120V circuits; I guess some people like new appliances........"

Even after I tried to re claify I was talking again about 240V system and that I had come to the conclusion that a isolation transformer was the way to go ,even if I got a model number wrong, he choose to be who he is. If you want to make a point you generally don't throw a insult in at the end as it negates everything you said in the beginning.
Yep, I missed it.

I think you are referring to...
"Duh!" which is an insult to your intelligence.
"puny system" which is an insult to your system.
"I guess some people like new appliances........" some kind of insult maybe.

Thanks for taking the time.
 
If you buy the Signature Solar version of the SPF5000ES (US) inverter, it has been modified by the factory to not have the L2 / Ground bond. This has been well documented here.

If you buy a random one from China or eBay, all bets are off. More than likely you will get one that has a relay that connects ground to L2 depending on the mode of the inverter.
This is also true for the ones sold on Amazon.
Don't ask me how I found this out. lol
 
If you buy the Signature Solar version of the SPF5000ES (US) inverter, it has been modified by the factory to not have the L2 / Ground bond. This has been well documented here.

If you buy a random one from China or eBay, all bets are off. More than likely you will get one that has a relay that connects ground to L2 depending on the mode of the inverter.
Ah ok. I was hoping that L2 ground was selectable.

From what I've seen the cheaper ones like mpp / growatt seem to use a screw that often is removable internally. But, I'd highly suggest checking with the manufacturer before buying one of these to make sure you can do this. Signature solar seems to order ones with the screw removed at the factory as opposed to you removing it yourself.
 
Yep, I missed it.

I think you are referring to...
"Duh!" which is an insult to your intelligence.
"puny system" which is an insult to your system.
"I guess some people like new appliances........" some kind of insult maybe.

Thanks for taking the time.
That's for this thread like you asked...but he's the same way with others throughout this forum when people disagree with him. I'm new to this forum and I realized this before even posting my first post about this particular person. We can act like adults and converse as such ..even when people disagree with us or fail to get our points across.
 
Ah ok. I was hoping that L2 ground was selectable.
Anything is selectable if you make it selectable. That's what i did. But it's simpler to buy the 'correct' version if it's available and you're not confident modifying a brand new ~$1k pile of circuit boards. Or two, in my case.

I have two 'small' (i.e. if i say what they are, guaranteed someone will say they are undersize and i am about to die) transformers and i have seen their idle consumption to be roughly 7 watts or so.
 
There's another user that uses this 50 Kva transformer for isolation and he's getting good results with his growatt setup. He's a electrician and lineman by trade.


I found this 25 Kva one that seems to be the same but just smaller.

 
If you want split phase don’t bother buying a Magnum. Their customer service sucks! Been on the phone all morning calling every phone number I can google. Finally a woman answered the phone and is was a security officer. She finally got me to another woman. I told her my story and asked if magnum was even still in business. She didn’t know but said she will look into it and get back to me. We will see.
 
If you want split phase don’t bother buying a Magnum. Their customer service sucks! Been on the phone all morning calling every phone number I can google. Finally a woman answered the phone and is was a security officer. She finally got me to another woman. I told her my story and asked if magnum was even still in business. She didn’t know but said she will look into it and get back to me. We will see.
Something is going on with them, they can't get any stock for a long time now.
 
Something is going on with them, they can't get any stock for a long time now.
I was told two rumors by two different vendors of Magnum products. One they were in the middle of moving off shore. Two they were moving to Mexico. But regardless answer a phone or return an email. Don’t just let your customer base hanging.
 
I've seen your comments / interactions on this forums with others and there's a pattern..you're compelled to be insulting and condescending when there's no reason to act that way. Please move past any future post of mine!
Just trying to be helpful to others and hopefully they move in the right direction. I see so many mistakes made, many misconceptions, I have to wonder how many unsafe systems are out there.

This gives a bad name to DIY solar projects. The end result will be heavy regulation or outright bans on DIY solar projects.
 
Oh I'd love see links to these products. I could use some more PV at 18cent. And only 40Kw inverters that google gives me are industrial $15k ones.
I bought 2 pallets of used 250w panels from Signature Solar for .20 watt, 7 months ago. they are working great
 
If I am the only house on my utility power pole transformer, would that mean an isolation transformer in my system would not try to “balance my neighbors’ power” mains feed?
 
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If I am the only house on my utility power pole transformer, would that mean an isolation transformer in my system would not try to “balance my neighbors’ power” mains feed?
No such thing. An isolation transformer just isolates your neutral from your neighbors, and along with that the ground.

Deriving a ground close to the neutral-ground bond at your house has some advantages, especially with induced lightning currents.
 
If I am the only house on my utility power pole transformer, would that mean an isolation transformer in my system would not try to “balance my neighbors’ power” mains feed?
An isolation transformer "isolates" the newly formed system from the original system that powers it.
The issue with (possibly) balancing the neighborhood loads, is from using an autotransformer in parallel with the grid.
 
I know some say there is no current used by an isolation transformer’s primary windings when no loads are on the secondary but that seems impossible.
 
I know some say there is no current used by an isolation transformer’s primary windings when no loads are on the secondary but that seems impossible.
A transformer without any load on the secondary is basically an inductor and as such will block AC current. It's not quite as simple as that in reality though.
 
I know some say there is no current used by an isolation transformer’s primary windings when no loads are on the secondary but that seems impossible.
There are core losses. 99% of the energy is reactive, so it is only stored and circulated, not used. A portion of the current is resistive and that is due to the "work" that needs to be done to polarize the magnetic core at 60 cycles per second. That uses real power, but not much unless it's a very large transformer. There is also a small amount of power loss in the copper (or aluminum) primary coils, but again, not much.
 
I've been seeing this on youtube with david poz and others and am wondering why this is so alluring? Why buy a bunch of 240V only inverters then have to wire in a transformer to provide the neutral when you can buy inverters already putting out split phase power and just parallel them and combine them at the load center? Wouldn't that be a better option for a few reasons. If the isolation transformer you used to split the phase ever goes out you're without power. If you have five units like in this video and the transformer goes out it's over until you get another one. But if you have five units all running split phase natively you can have all but one go out and still have power..reduced but still have power? A few questions, what's the pull towards doing this? And, does this not turn a HF inverter, or in this case five of them, into LF devices? Does this help with the surge capacity issues HF units have without using a transformer? I looked up the transformer he used and it's between 2500 and 3k. Lastly ...would something like this even pass inspection with or without grid connection?

In a word.. Price…
 
And another word, application. Most of my loads are easy to balance so I don't need to spend money on a transformer. If I had a big device with a motor load , I would rather rewire it to run on 240 volts ratherbthan buy a transformer.
So all your loads are 240 or are you running split phase inverters with no imbalance??

The original question I thought was why are people buying 240v inverters and using a transformer to form a neutral when they can buy split phase.

“Why buy a bunch of 240V only inverters then have to wire in a transformer to provide the neutral when you can buy inverters already putting out split phase power”

Reason…Price..
 
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So all your loads are 240?
No, but with LEDs my biggest 120 volt loads are easy to balance. The coffee maker and micro are the biggest loads and rarely exceed 2,000 Watts. My source of heat is 240 volts and that is my biggest load at 1500-2500 kWs. I pumped up some bike tires with a compressor but that may be on the grid side and not through my Inverter.
 

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