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Predator or Champion?

Example of the honda watt issue.

This is their top end model according to their website



EB10000

MSRP
$6649*
10000 watt 120/240V industrial generator with CO-MINDER™

  • G.F.C.I. / neutral bond protection
  • Electric start
  • Best fuel efficiency and lowest noise rating in its class
  • CO-MINDER: advanced carbon monoxide detection system
10kw for $6649

My 12kw pulsar is $950. So for $6649 you can buy enough pulsars to have 84KW

Sorry that's a bit much for to justify that.
 
My sister said, "Houses are not built by college graduates."

Do you think lawn services (and mower maintenance) is?

My 2000 Civic has 280,000 miles on it. Assuming 60 MPH, that's approaching 5000 operating hours. (A hand-me-down from said sister.)

The other way to get longevity would be cast iron block.
 
Bought a 3500W predator inverter generator with $100 off coupon. Haven’t opened the box as I’m having second thoughts.

Noticed this morning that I can buy a “3650W” Champion for $50 less than HF price after coupon. But that’s not what’s most important to me.

Which one is better? Champion will drink gasoline or propane, HF is gasoline only.

What I’m really wondering is: are these units identical and/or which one is better?
Champion is at TSC (1/2 hour away) while HF is an hour and twenty minutes away if I need support… Plus HF only warranties 90 days, whereas Champion looks like a year- and winter isn’t within 90 days if the HF unit is crap.

What’s the impressions here?
I bought a champion 3500 dual fuel electric start inverter gen set 2 years ago… I ran it the first year on gas … after that only on propane for the many maintaince and safty benefits…it has Eco mode and can be paralleled. 105 lbs…
I ran my whole 35/ft rv off the 30amp outlet with no issues for a month. A/C ran great as everything else , but not all at once..( it’s a 50;amp RV) 3500 vs 12000 watts… big difference

l also bought a 9650 watt dual fuel champion for 240 loads or big stuff… (not inverter).
I love both of mine. And I love the little Honda 2200 inverter too.
i have a few more of different size but those three are my favorite……
I have never had a predictor so I cant speak on them…

propane is way better to store , burn, buy, and doesn’t degrade like gas…cuts maintence down to near nothing except oil…it’s much cleaner but about 10% less powerful.
I don’t use gas at all anymore…
jus my opinion.
 
The problem with honda isn't the paying more to get the better motor its the paying more and getting less watts :)

Dollar for dollar your going to get more watts with champion or pulsar or whatever vs honda.
I’ve got several of both… just messing with the Honda and using it will quickly show why they cost more …they are better… but for the money the champion 3500 electric start dual fuel has served me well . Plus propane makes the whole thing work and last longer…. Gas is a nasty fuel compared to propane…
NO.. I’m not a eco guy at all. I just see how well propane works in a gen set…I will never go back to gas…
J.
 
From the jeep world, RVers, offgridders near me, and off-gridders I have heard dollars-to-dollars happiness with champion. Which is why I mentioned that brand.
Nearly everyone with champion will concede Yamaha runs forever and Honda has decent longevity. Both are better. Buy an $800 generator or buy one for a couple grand… $750 was my target.
Thanks
Interesting. Jeeps are a premium priced conveyance. Some will say they are vastly over priced. Why buy a jeep when there are other, lower priced alternatives?

Most of the RV'ers and Jeep folks I know vastly prefer Honda's over the China stuff. Honda's have always been the most reliable of all gennys. There is a reason higher quality vehicles cost more. The same applies to generators.

Lead-acid is half the price or more than LifePo4. Why buy Lithium when you can have lead-acid?

There is a reason champion generators are "half the price of a Honda".

I own a 2016 Jeep rubicon hard rock, a 19 foot off-road capable trailer, and a Tacoma. I also own a Honda 2200i, and two wens. The wens sit at the farm. The Honda always travels with me. Been there, done that.
 
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I’ve got several of both… just messing with the Honda and using it will quickly show why they cost more …they are better… but for the money the champion 3500 electric start dual fuel has served me well . Plus propane makes the whole thing work and last longer…. Gas is a nasty fuel compared to propane…
NO.. I’m not a eco guy at all. I just see how well propane works in a gen set…I will never go back to gas…
J.
Your Honda is easily convertible to dual-fuel, you know. I like propane as a fuel, but when I boondock, I need it to run my fridge and heater and for cooking. Propane also has a lot less energy, and has a larger power loss at higher altitudes.
 
Your Honda is easily convertible to dual-fuel, you know. I like propane as a fuel, but when I boondock, I need it to run my fridge and heater and for cooking. Propane also has a lot less energy, and has a larger power loss at higher altitudes.
Yep, I got a hutch mtn kit for the Honda …. There is about a 10% drop in power over gas … Itvseems most of them loose power at higher altitude…about 3% per 1000 ft of elevation IIRC . there is carb kit for those over about 3500 ft ..I’m at @ 4000 and never had a problem I know if …but who knows..
 
The only plus I see with them is noise. Otherwise I haven't seen a plus. There are dead mowers all over the place around here for sale with dead honda engines so I'm not buying the longevity angle.
I bought a new Honda mower when my old mower totally crapped out. Have had it 3 years now and it runs great (it better!). I even did a stupid and forgot to run the gas out of it over winter and aside from couple extra tugs on the pull cord it started and ran fine. I did throw some cleaner through it to hopefully flush any nasty out of it.

Their mowers aren't super pricey compared to the competition so I don't get the huge price premium on the gen sets.

I'll bet most of those "Dead" Honda engines aren't really dead, just typical lack of maintenance. So many people can't be bothered to even stick a new spark plug in things. When I bought my old house the previous owner left the old riding mower, said it wouldn't run and had no idea why. The air filter was packed with gunk and the spark plug was a burnt off nub. New air filter, new oil, and new spark plug and it ran flawlessly. Like, wow people...
 
I never understood why Honda generators are so overpriced.
They are built to provide a better more stable power. Not always a necessary thing for casual use but it pays off in longevity of not only the generator but the things you power from it. The big issue with all small portable generators is frequency and voltage control under changing load.

Think of it like Tier 1 versus the rest. Many of us are satisfied with the rest but there are use cases for going Tier 1.
 
Jeeps are a premium priced conveyance. Some will say they are vastly over priced. Why buy a jeep when there are other, lower priced alternatives?
There aren’t lower-priced alternatives, actually. Unless you think of them as a car- conveyance- only.

My jeep is a 1989 YJ. I only made one payment on it. 300,000 miles or so on it. Starts at -32*F to 100*F that I know about.

Unless you dropped $8-$10k your rubicon won’t follow me a lot of places - at least not without damage.

About every part for mine (brakes, alternator, transmission, etc) is wicked inexpensive compared to yours. (Calipers are ~$25). And I can fix about everything right here including paint to gears to rebuilding the transmission for $200 in parts.
I can buy a lot of gasoline with the maintenance cost savings. And it does whatever I want ?

Cost is relative. My jeep is cheap.

Jeeps/offroading is also a bit of a lifestyle choice. I own four Jeeps right now, and they sorta are a lifestyle identity fashion that some people spend a year’s salary to drive. Mine cost very little, although my time modifying and welding the 89 would be quite costly to pay someone else to do.

Expensive is applicable only if you buy things. DIY is my game. Am I a professional? Some would say so; well I suppose I am. I have repeat people bring me Jeeps to fix.

Expensive is relative to what your skills and tools can’t resource.
Most of the RV'ers and Jeep folks I know vastly prefer Honda's over the China stuff.
own a 2016 Jeep rubicon hard rock, a 19 foot off-road capable trailer
Different kind of offroading maybe ?
19’ anything would leave you stranded in a few hundred feet if you take a right out of my driveway instead of a left?

There is a reason champion generators are "half the price of a Honda"
Maybe. Probably.
But the spenders get great longevity bout of yamaha; the budget mindset folks are ok with champion; and- like here- after asking around the predator ain’t popular with ‘regular’ frequent users.

I suppose there’s nothing wrong with the Honda- besides the price. And I’m not shopping for a Honda.
Lead-acid is half the price or more than LifePo4. Why buy Lithium when you can have lead-acid?
Quite a few reasons actually. But these days when 2.5kWh is under $500 and you can keep them where they don’t freeze lithium is an easy pick. But lead acid still has much usefulness- the simile is not parity.
for the money the champion 3500 electric start dual fuel has served me well . Plus propane makes the whole thing work and last longer….
That’s what everybody keeps telling me locally. There’s horror stories, too, but that appears scant versus Predater or Briggs and Rattlin’
The big issue with all small portable generators is frequency and voltage control under changing load.
That’s why I’m after an inverter generator.
Think of it like Tier 1 versus the rest. Many of us are satisfied with the rest but there are use cases for going Tier 1.
‘Use Cases’ are for studies ?

I’m not in the Tier 1 market. I’m 12V, so if I actually need backup power for my solar system for 85-128ozs of gasoline an hour I can simply start up the jeep and throw on some jumper cables.
 
.


...

That’s why I’m after an inverter generator.

‘Use Cases’ are for studies ?

...
Inverter generators (pioneered by Honda) are a huge change in the portable generator market. However they are not equal since how they go about creating the input to the inverter stage is different. Honda used a 3 phase generator head (more wiring and more expensive to build) that feeds the electronics versus the less expensive single phase designs from competitors.
 
Based upon personal experience, I would go with the Champion. Started 12 years ago with their 2K stackable units and parallel kit and they are still running like new (moderate usage). Followed up with their 3100 dual fuel a several years back and it's still running like new as well. Latest is their 2500 dual fuel currently on Amazon for around $500.

FWIW - Have never had any problems running gas through these generators over the years following 2 basic rules:

1) Put Stabil in all of the fuel, and occasionally a splash of Seafoam.

2) Turn the fuel supply off and run the generator until it stops. This is an old trick from the OMC / Evinrude / Johnson outboard motor days which specified in their owner's manuals to disconnect the Gas supply and run the engines until they stopped at the end of the season or whenever they were not going to be used again right away. This trick was not in the earlier Champion Owner's manuals but was added in at least some later ones...
 
Never used a Champion but I have 3 Predators and never had a problem. I never change the oil. I do need to add some now and then. My main one I only run in the winter fir about an hour a day. I put 10 seconds of fuel in it and run it dry daily in December and January that's when I get virtually no sun for solar.
 
I never change the oil.

:eek:

For a car you might change oil at 5000 miles, around 100 operating hours.
Car has a good full-flow filter. And closed-loop fuel injection, minimizing dirty operation that contaminates oil.
Small engine has none of that.

Cast iron block withstands wear better than aluminum. Good aluminum engines have a hardening treatment in cylinder. Air-cooled engine may run too hot in hot weather, no temperature regulation.

Change the oil regularly! Maybe as often as 10 hours if you'd like it to last a long time.
 
Oh I change my car oil evert 40 or 50 thousand miles if it needs it. These generators may not last that long. But after 40 years of using small gas motors I can never think of one that died due to the oil. Of course everyone should do what they think is best
 
That's why I love my $150 1000w two stroke generator. No oil to change and nothing to lose. It even runs fine out in the open in pouring rain.
 
I'd say that's a little extreme. 3 cloudy days = 2 oil changes?

My first break in oil change was scheduled for 20 hours and regular changes are recommended for every 100 hours.

If that's manufacturer's recommendation, fine.

My 1960's Honda motorcycles don't have a filter (one has a centrifugal filter, no paper.)
I think the recommended oil change interval is 350 or 500 miles. vs. several thousand for the car, which has spin-on filter.

I'd like to set up an off-line paper filter to cycle oil through in the garage.
 
There aren’t lower-priced alternatives, actually. Unless you think of them as a car- conveyance- only.

My jeep is a 1989 YJ. I only made one payment on it. 300,000 miles or so on it. Starts at -32*F to 100*F that I know about.

Unless you dropped $8-$10k your rubicon won’t follow me a lot of places - at least not without damage.
A YJ? really?

My first conveyance was a 1953 CJ-3B. 4cyl. (which I drove in an off-road race at age 18) I have owned a 1949 willys, wagon with a Ford V8 I shoehorned in W/advanced adaptors. A 1972 CJ-5, a 1974 CJ-5, a 2001 TJ, Various XJ's old gladiator's, etc.

I also owned Many other brands of 4x4 vehicles, like a late 70's V8 scout II. It was far superior to any of the Jeeps of that day, as was my Toyota FJ40.
Jeeps are great, but there are many other vehicles with just as good and better off road performance. I owned 4 original bronco's (2 6 cyl, 2 V8)
I had a 1968 Bronco I built with a 302 with cam, exhaust, manifold, and holley, suspension, tires that would easily smoke any Jeep off-road.

I also had a mid 70's Toyota Land Crusier FJ40. Far, far superior off-road to any stock jeep of the day

And My rubicon wouldn't have that much trouble following. Other than tires and lift and skid plates and winch, (which I have), most of the so-called off-road bling is just that.

But this is way, way off my point. So, you are a master of DIY. That's great, Good for you. You are a special case. But for the average person, all of my points are perfectly valid. Do you buy the cheapest quality parts for your Jurassic Park Jeep? JC whitney?

I always bought the best parts I could afford for my trucks and jeeps. I have been stuck in the boonies with a busted vehicle too many times for that.

The same applies exactly for generators. The cheap stuff is built for light duty, occasional, use. Honda's and Yamaha's are built for heavy use and abuse. And they always start when you need them. It's really simple.


The lead-acid / LifePo4 comparison is not even close to a simile. It's an analogy illustrating my point.


Different kind of offroading maybe ?
19’ anything would leave you stranded in a few hundred feet if you take a right out of my driveway instead of a left?
With experience comes awareness of your surroundings. My trailer is my basecamp. I choose my locations wisely. It's not a competition. That sort of attitude faded in my late 20's. I'm all grown up now ?

It's about wringing the most fun out of a trip, without interruptions caused by breakdowns.

But, if you are as much of a DIY wizard as you say, you will have no issues whatsoever fixing your cheap generator when it breaks down in the middle of nowhere. I choose to not need to worry about it. That's the real value of a Honda.
 
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A YJ? really?

My first conveyance was a 1953 CJ-3B. 4cyl. (which I drove in an off-road race at age 18) I have owned a 1949 willys, wagon with a Ford V8 I shoehorned in W/advanced adaptors. A 1972 CJ-5, a 1974 CJ-5, a 2001 TJ, Various XJ's old gladiator's, etc.

I also owned Many other brands of 4x4 vehicles, like a late 70's V8 scout II. It was far superior to any of the Jeeps of that day, as was my Toyota FJ40.
Jeeps are great, but there are many other vehicles with just as good and better off road performance. I owned 4 original bronco's (2 6 cyl, 2 V8)
I had a 1968 Bronco I built with a 302 with cam, exhaust, manifold, and holley, suspension, tires that would easily smoke any Jeep off-road.

I also had a mid 70's Toyota Land Crusier FJ40. Far, far superior off-road to any stock jeep of the day

And My rubicon wouldn't have that much trouble following. Other than tires and lift and skid plates and winch, (which I have), most of the so-called off-road bling is just that.

But this is way, way off my point. So, you are a master of DIY. That's great, Good for you. You are a special case. But for the average person, all of my points are perfectly valid. Do you buy the cheapest quality parts for your Jurassic Park Jeep? JC whitney?

I always bought the best parts I could afford for my trucks and jeeps. I have been suck in the boonies with a busted vehicle too many times for that.

The same applies exactly for generators. The cheap stuff is built for light duty, occasional, use. Honda's and Yamaha's are built for heavy use and abuse. And they always start when you need them. It's really simple.


The lead-acid / LifePo4 comparison is not even close to a simile. It's an analogy illustrating my point.



With experience comes awareness of your surroundings. My trailer is my basecamp. I choose my locations wisely. It's not a competition. That sort of attitude faded in my late 20's. I'm all grown up now ?

It's about wringing the most fun out of a trip, without interruptions caused by breakdowns.


But, if you are as much of a DIY wizard as you say, you will have no issues whatsoever fixing your cheap generator when it breaks down in the middle of nowhere. I choose to not need to worry about it. That's the real value of a Honda.
My 73 CJ-5. My daily driver on Catalina Island for over 20 years. Now retired in Baja .
 

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