Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No one cares if he is willing to make the changes. If he wants approval he has no choice but to make the changes.
Failed Inspection - need some advice and guidance for NEC 690 infractions.
- Thread starter meager
- Start date
Retired Remodeling Contractor here;
Looks like you got an inspector with a corncob stuck in his ass,happens once in awhile.they take notes of their visit
So,,,clean up your systems conduit runs,make them look "pretty and neat".
Get a copy of his inspection report,(run it thru your printer), use it as a worksheet to make your corrections to his satisfaction,take Xtra time here and overkill it ! Do every he says and back it up with your "worksheet".
Make sure the system is "pretty and neat,(prev.mentioned),and surrounding areas.
Be friendly and nice,listen...don't interrupt !
Even if you do a "correction" wrong,make it "pretty,neat,clean as you can.
Good luck !
Looks like you got an inspector with a corncob stuck in his ass,happens once in awhile.they take notes of their visit
So,,,clean up your systems conduit runs,make them look "pretty and neat".
Get a copy of his inspection report,(run it thru your printer), use it as a worksheet to make your corrections to his satisfaction,take Xtra time here and overkill it ! Do every he says and back it up with your "worksheet".
Make sure the system is "pretty and neat,(prev.mentioned),and surrounding areas.
Be friendly and nice,listen...don't interrupt !
Even if you do a "correction" wrong,make it "pretty,neat,clean as you can.
Good luck !
@cj5orion yes, best I can tell, this guy certainly enjoys his corn. I've definitely been very cordial with this guy. Your advice is solid though. Kiss ass and make stuff pretty until I get the blessing of the inspector gods. I get it. Odds are that I'll tear all this stuff out in a year or so for upgrades.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Easier to view on upcodes IMO
up.codes is where I've been deciphering everything. I wasn't sure b/c in the top left corner it mentions Minnesota, but thanks for confirming.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
All that said, it's good to take a step back. I don't think it will take you that much time or cost to fix it, I guesstimate 30% of the original installation time.
You can try to get this to pass by bulk-replacing the indoor stuff with FMC, sadly nobody has posted the section from 690 on FMC restrictions. This is from a random NEC 2017 excerpt, please google on Upcodes for NEC2020 for your state. If you go FMC route, use size 1 or higher.
(2) Flexible Wiring Methods. Where flexible metal conduit (FMC) smaller than metric designator 21 (trade size ¾) or Type MC cable smaller than 25 mm (1 in.) in diameter containing PV power circuit conductors is installed across ceilings or floor joists, the raceway or cable shall be protected by substantial guard strips that are at least as high as the raceway or cable. Where run exposed, other than within 1.8 m (6 ft) of their connection to equipment, these wiring methods shall closely follow the building surface or be protected from physical damage by an approved means.
Missed the UL9540, that would have been a $$$$$$$$$$$.
Yes, the original mistake here was using YouTube instead of forums and doing solar (which has EXTRA code violating videos compared to other electrical) as the first major electrical project. First meaning, don't know how to find code, can't spot the code problems in YT channels. But now that you know where to get the correct code information coaching and feedback (ie in TEXT form on forums, unfortunately after reading the tea leaves on which forum participants know the code), you probably only need to rework this once.
You can try to get this to pass by bulk-replacing the indoor stuff with FMC, sadly nobody has posted the section from 690 on FMC restrictions. This is from a random NEC 2017 excerpt, please google on Upcodes for NEC2020 for your state. If you go FMC route, use size 1 or higher.
690.31(D) Direct-Current Circuits on or in Buildings.
Where inside buildings, PV system dc circuits that exceed 30 volts or 8 amperes shall be contained in metal raceways, in Type MC metal-clad cable that complies with 250.118(10), or in metal enclosures.
www.electricallicenserenewal.com
(2) Flexible Wiring Methods. Where flexible metal conduit (FMC) smaller than metric designator 21 (trade size ¾) or Type MC cable smaller than 25 mm (1 in.) in diameter containing PV power circuit conductors is installed across ceilings or floor joists, the raceway or cable shall be protected by substantial guard strips that are at least as high as the raceway or cable. Where run exposed, other than within 1.8 m (6 ft) of their connection to equipment, these wiring methods shall closely follow the building surface or be protected from physical damage by an approved means.
Missed the UL9540, that would have been a $$$$$$$$$$$.
Yes, the original mistake here was using YouTube instead of forums and doing solar (which has EXTRA code violating videos compared to other electrical) as the first major electrical project. First meaning, don't know how to find code, can't spot the code problems in YT channels. But now that you know where to get the correct code information coaching and feedback (ie in TEXT form on forums, unfortunately after reading the tea leaves on which forum participants know the code), you probably only need to rework this once.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
In the UI you can switch to current code of any jurisdiction, and you should make sure to switch to your state.
Quattrohead
Solar Wizard
This should be a sticky at the very top of this forum, this is serious stuff folks we're not piddle shitting with Legos in our Mum's front den anymore.
ArthurEld
Solar Wizard
I was made aware of a bunch of mistakes too. My inspector made me pound in another ground rod. Everyone said the inspector was wrong.
I just put it in and attached a continuous ground wire.
They'd probably want me to put one at my shed now too since I moved the inverter and batteries.
I just put it in and attached a continuous ground wire.
They'd probably want me to put one at my shed now too since I moved the inverter and batteries.
My inspector has required me to put in 3 total ground rods. 1 at the array and 2 at the power shed at least 6 ft apart. I'm pretty good at pounding in ground rods at this point. Instead of purchasing or renting at large hammer drill, I've just been using a t-post hammer and it works perfectly fine in my cases. I already had the t-post hammer for all of the the fencing I have to install anyways.
lol. At this point I'll take all the ridicule that ya'll can throw at me. I need this inspector off my back so I can move on to other meaningful projects that are required at the homestead. This is my first crack at living completely off grid, so I'm sure I'll make plenty of other mistakes along the way.
@cs1234 Overkill, yes, but not at all dangerous. It's all about creating the path of least resistance.All those ground rods sound dangerous.
ghostwriter66
"Here - Hold my Beer"
Of course there is the "move to Texas" option ... heck - as long as you are not in a city or a major town the only advice the inspector will ever give you - over the phone because they aren't coming out - is "don't do anything stupid to get yourself or someone else killed -- and don't start a fire" ... and when your finish if you have time - take a picture and send it to me ... LOL
cs1234
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- May 9, 2022
- Messages
- 2,305
I've seen so much information on ground rods and grounding here on the forum and Mike Holt videos that anything other than one main ground rod that everything is grounded to scares me.
Maybe some of the other more experienced folks on here will chime in to allay my fears.
@ghostwriter66 Wow...that would sure be nice. I know my project, as it stands right now, is perfectly safe and would stand the test of time...but I have to do what I have to do in order to get my blessing. You have to get almost everything permitted here in Colorado. I have permits up to my ears out here. I sure didn't expect all of this oversight when I purchased the property...but here we are. Believe it or not, I had to pull a separate permit for the actual ground array to appease the county gods. The actual electrical portion of this is through the State. If you every move to Colorado, expect to line everyone's pockets with permit money. It doesn't "feel" right to me, but I'm in this far so I'm going for it. The good news is that after everything settles I can go pure "cowboy" with whatever I want. I'm in the middle of basically nowhere on 35 acres. Skies the limits after all my inspections and oversight.
The inspector is not going to tell you how to fix / install anything. Not his job and he and his employer (the AHJ) probably prohibit it as they would them create liability for themselves.
NFPA, the publisher of the NEC, is a private standards organization. They only write their best practices book. They earn a good part of their income through the sales of code books. It is up to the State and then local jurisdictions to adopt the NEC as their minimum standards. They (the State or local authorities) have the ability to modify the NEC as they see fit. Bit of history, the NFPA was established by the insurance industry to prevent structure fires (and limit the insurance companies potential liability payout).
Yes, electricians can be expensive but part of what you pay for is their knowledge of local codes and practices. Choosing to DIY means that you get to pay for your education in other ways. Whether that is time, money or some other way (hopefully not blowing things up or getting hurt), there's going to be a learning curve. And paying for and learning how to use a code book is just part of that process. As someone once told me "education is expensive, it's just how you decide to pay for it that matters".
OP is on the right track, he'll get there.
NFPA, the publisher of the NEC, is a private standards organization. They only write their best practices book. They earn a good part of their income through the sales of code books. It is up to the State and then local jurisdictions to adopt the NEC as their minimum standards. They (the State or local authorities) have the ability to modify the NEC as they see fit. Bit of history, the NFPA was established by the insurance industry to prevent structure fires (and limit the insurance companies potential liability payout).
Yes, electricians can be expensive but part of what you pay for is their knowledge of local codes and practices. Choosing to DIY means that you get to pay for your education in other ways. Whether that is time, money or some other way (hopefully not blowing things up or getting hurt), there's going to be a learning curve. And paying for and learning how to use a code book is just part of that process. As someone once told me "education is expensive, it's just how you decide to pay for it that matters".
OP is on the right track, he'll get there.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
One ground rod point. Some soil conditions may require more than one ground rod 6 feet away but that is still a single point when rods are bonded together.
Just because an inspector mandates auxiliary rods to pass inspection doesn't mean the inspector is correct. Install the ground rod if the inspector insists, bond to it. After passing inspection, remove the bond and even pull the rod if you want. Any lightning strike near an auxiliary rod can cause problems, the Mike Holt videos are quite clear about this.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,047
Ghostwriter!
May I suggest some SPF-50?
That Texas sun has really done a number on your complexion.
Now it is elves you're going to have swooning over you.
Similar threads
