64 eve lLF280k version3 cells in 8P8S configuation 24-volt build December 28th, 2023

[michael d]

63 of the 64 cells are being reassembled on the new floor-level reinforced steel shelf and more top balancing started once again yesterday >>>March 3rd, 2024.
Tons of sun and solar PV electric power and lots of wind (please tell the wind to stop.)
put all the extra cable outside in temporary quarters to make more room in the off-grid solar power shed...

 

[michael d]

64 cells 280Ah version 3 cells:

I bought a composite ratchet and use it some also...I need to get a ratcheting box end wrench or an open access socket for the final assembly of the cells for torque but not overtorque the connections....
the longer grub screws/set screws require the deep well socket or an open end/box end 10mm wrench or open access socket with the 6mm grub screws/set screws....

it is very important not to arc the cells so I eliminate almost all the extra metal from the area....
plastic trays and plastic toolboxes come in out go the metal ones...!!!!!

I try to keep the exposed prismatic cell terminals covered as I assemble the cells with plastic or wood or other non-conducting materials....

I arced one ((large 272Ah prismatic cell during assembly)) about 3-4 years prior and was able to stop it with a piece of wood dowel rod to quickly remove the arc but it ruined the grub screw /set screw and left a welding remembrance on the bus bar... Be very careful at all times and stop when you are tired (((((always think when working to assemble the series and parallel connections!!!!)))))
I always wear glasses (safety for my eyes).





the Riden buck chargers in these three photos....above.
the bottom one is the Riden 6024 with 10AWG tinned copper silicone cable with ring terminals which outperforms the 6012 (in the middle) and 6018 (on top)above...
I believe the upgraded 10AWG copper silicone insulated wire is the key here(IMO) ... the ring terminals are a must for good connections also...
The silicon wire is super flexible and is tinned copper very fine copper wires within...IMO

all three of the Riden buck chargers are set at 3.5 volts for top balancing. At the end of the day >>> I turned them down to 3.36 volts for overnight charging.... I will turn them up when I am paying more attention to them in the morning....

PS: >>>> I am charging 6 at a time each Riden has 2 cells in parallel to charge so need about 400Ah to get to top balance levels...for every 2 cells in parallel.

each of the Riden buck chargers I assembled from kits and the AC-DC power supply has a small potentiometer that can be adjusted before you close the case....I never adjusted those at all so what is says on the screen is the input voltage from each AC-DC switching power supply into the Riden buck charger... and most are between 65.47volts, 69.69volts, and 68.26volts input into the Riden 6018, 6012, and 6024 buck chargers volts ......I may adjust them (the internal potentiometer) a tad someday( as fast as molasses flows in January)...
inflation has these more expensive today than a few years ago....but these are very good units.... especially the 6024 one(my favorite).IMO

 

[michael d]

this is what I ordered and received.... I ordered 64 280Ah version 3 prismatic cells and they had welded-on screw holes... each box of 2 cells included busbars, ss grub screws, ss serrated flange nuts, ss flat washers, ss lock washers, 2 red and 2 black boots to cover the grub screw bolts, 2 yellow fiberglass separator sheets and a 3mm hex key for installing the grub screws (so now I have 32 of the 3mm Allen wrench hex keys - only used one), some had positive and negative stickers to be applied (some did not)....
"Creating" is their website.... the shipping agent was Ana Mo ultimately and they are in China but the prismatic cells are in warehouses in various locations in the USA...
alibaba has guarantees so somewhat more secure I believe...
at any rate ... I have purchased from this same vendor 3 different times >>> both directly from China and this last batch from the USA warehouse.
she gave my a contact number that is usable on WhatsApp or with Apple ID....
I use WhatsApp a lot to converse with people in other countries

personally, I only contact them directly through Alibaba....
and think it best to use the Alibaba route...IMO

 

[michael d]

 

[michael d]

64 cells 280Ah version 3 cells:

I saw one cell at 3.292 and one cell at 3.299 via the el-cheapo 6000 count clamp style multimeter....
these cells were definitely rested but not matched
according to the chart above one is at about 36 percent SOC(state of charge), and the other is closer to 47 percent SOC
I connected them in parallel sets of two to charge and top balance....
it may not work for your situation,,,, but I will series connect and use the NEEY 15 amp active balancer when all are closer to the top...

 

[michael d]

64 cells 280Ah version 3 cells:

3.350 is close to 96 percent SOC rested open circuit voltage the very few amps above 3.350 are not worth chasing (IMO...)
There are lots of folks with more LiFePO4 experience than me and claim to be various titles from their armchair computer...
I am a honors chemistry major graduate / medical graduate with 40 plus years of DIY carpentry and remodeling second job skills..
I worked to maintain 20 apartments and did plumbing etc while attending the university for 8 years, training in various other skills to pay my way through the university....nothing is free...
I am not an electrician I am not an engineer..
but I constantly study and learn from many different sources....
do not believe all you read,,,, some people make up theories to later prove they were wrong...
seek out expert guidance when in doubt...
you are ultimately responsible for your own situations and your own decisions as to what is the correct or best route for you....

be safe in all you do

can't never did any thing

if you think you can
if you think you can't
either way you will be right...

 

[Steve_S]

Just an FYI on the EVE 560AH cells.
They are going into production @ End of August and will be available to vendors starting in September.
Each cell weighs in at 11.5kg +/-.

Also a bit of BAD NEWS !
Currently there is a Duty Free cap on products/goods coming from China which is $800, several Senators etc in the US are now trying to change that and lower that cap with some suggesting eliminating the cap altogether.

MSN

MSN

 

[michael d]

Just an FYI on the EVE 560AH cells.
They are going into production @ End of August and will be available to vendors starting in September.
Each cell weighs in at 11.5kg +/-.

Also a bit of BAD NEWS !
Currently there is a Duty Free cap on products/goods coming from China which is $800, several Senators etc in the US are now trying to change that and lower that cap with some suggesting eliminating the cap altogether.

MSN

MSN

I think the 560Ah cells will be an improvement to the ESS as fewer connections to malfunction and cause losses.... yes at 11.5kg they will be heavy for sure....

The duty-free cap is why the Chinese put warehouses in other non-taxed countries to avoid that import tax.... of the USA...it may backfire on them.... they have tons and tons of unsold stuff in the USA warehouses....

It is the end consumer who pays for the taxation rat race..... the USA politicians keep inventing more ways to spend more of someone else's money.... as they inflate/pad their own salaries and continue to accept money from their corporate cronies.... a very crooked system in favor of the politicians; not the middle-class workers... but that is definitely bad for the little guys.... the tax and more tax....
Time for another Boston tea party!!!

On the one hand, they want to do more so-called green solar and other forms of electricity with income tax credits for investing in green energy, then they overtax tax the imported solar products...
Sorry about the political viewpoint but this is how it appears to me...

 

[Steve_S]

Simply put, we know what things cost "today" and in the very short term that may be dropping a bit. But what the future will present in a few months is anyone guess - there are over 40 National Elections this year and stuff can change quickly given the unstable fools and their shenanigans. It's all a gamble... wait to see if things get cheaper/better or ? At what point will people decide to get "what they can now" or wait it out is up to each individual.

Personally, I would consider the 560AH cells but I would wait a Minimum of 6 Months after Full Production starts, simply so they can make sure the production is fully debugged. TBH, I am glad to be finalizing up my systems this spring/summer because I do not see improvements coming, quite the opposite and I'd rather be completed for when stuff starts to go really bad. Bad can be anything from crazy & ridiculous picking (due to taxes/levies/duties) to likely conflicts expanding causing more stupidity to flow forth... Part of my finalization is further tweaking as well to eliminate the small amount of Genset time required in Mid Winter because that is another "dependency" I can do without. In fact, I got a dual-fuel genny (gas & LPG) because with LPG fittings in place will allow me to use BIOgas which is something that I can produce & use and was part of my original plan that got parked till now, as it has become viable & practical given global petty stoopidity raging along.

 

[michael d]

the one issue I found as I rearranged and put the steel reinforced shelf at slightly above floor level (about 3-4 inches)under the upper counterheight counter is now working on it is like you feel working on the plumbing under the kitchen sink....!!!!
I did mount the 4-foot-long LED light down there with a pull string for when I need a bit more light( that is good) !!
but >>> the getting down there I think I may bring in a roller seat from the garage or something...this placement of the heavy ESS LiFePO4 makes one use muscles and contortions not done very often....ouch!!!
slow but sure as spring is not too far off.... and more outdoor projects to finish up....
working on electronic-type things (LiFePO4 ESS) is a good task for the cold weather when even the bears hibernate...

the Alibaba vendor said to weld the terminal on the defective welded-on screw hole on the bad LiFePO4 cell and they would pay for it....so will have to see if I can find someone good at aluminum welding... I do not have that machine or experience welding aluminum.... unfortunately....tomorrow I may go to seek some local welder references...machine shops are going away also....unfortunately....fewer of them around now...

 

[michael d]

Simply put, we know what things cost "today" and in the very short term that may be dropping a bit. But what the future will present in a few months is anyone guess - there are over 40 National Elections this year and stuff can change quickly given the unstable fools and their shenanigans. It's all a gamble... wait to see if things get cheaper/better or ? At what point will people decide to get "what they can now" or wait it out is up to each individual.

Personally, I would consider the 560AH cells but I would wait a Minimum of 6 Months after Full Production starts, simply so they can make sure the production is fully debugged. TBH, I am glad to be finalizing up my systems this spring/summer because I do not see improvements coming, quite the opposite and I'd rather be completed for when stuff starts to go really bad. Bad can be anything from crazy & ridiculous picking (due to taxes/levies/duties) to likely conflicts expanding causing more stupidity to flow forth... Part of my finalization is further tweaking as well to eliminate the small amount of Genset time required in Mid Winter because that is another "dependency" I can do without. In fact, I got a dual-fuel genny (gas & LPG) because with LPG fittings in place will allow me to use BIOgas which is something that I can produce & use and was part of my original plan that got parked till now, as it has become viable & practical given global petty stoopidity raging along.

biogas would be really cool project toward self-sufficiency!!!
and yes I agree >>> it would be best to wait until after they get the bugs worked out on the 560Ah cells.... just like computer pieces and parts >>> the new hot product usually has issues...

 

[michael d]

64 cells 280Ah version 3 cells:

the NEEY 15 amp active balancer arrived today. but the accessory board is still en route...
I took the 56 (((.25 inch x 1 inch x 4 inch))) silver plated copper busbars to the machinist who said he would make the 2 slotted holes for a dollar a piece...
he has the tooling to do it accurately...
I am continuing to do the top balancing process and most all cells are there....
the 30mm long set screws/grub screws will be needed on all interior interconnections..... so only the outer rows will 25mm long grub screws set screws be sufficient...when there are 3 connections it requires the longer set screws (30mm)....when I was showing the machinist today it became more obvious to me that the 30mm m6 set screws were the ones for this build due to the thicker silver-plated copper busbars being utilized....

now >>> unfortunately >>>the one cell may be the stumbling block that had the welded-on screw terminal weld come off due to a faulty welding process....I should hear more(read their reply tonight)????

 

[michael d]

Do you plan to move only the 100 lbs cells around (2240Ah cell) or the entire battery?

I'm with you on the 8P configuration. I also prefer to have single cells build from 8 cells than having 8 BMS.

well, I will tell you: >>> I have moved them as individual cells 3 times now and the boxes all were moved 3 times from point of deliveryby FedEX in my driveway outside in the frigid cold snow to opening after the temporary move into the solar power shed...

after the thicker silver coated copper busbars are done at the machinist, they will all be strapped together as a fixture in sets of 2 then sets of 4 then sets of 8,,,,so there is me moving of 8 cells at a time which will weigh close to 100 pounds; but they will be positioned on top of a slick oven mat material to insulate and also helps them slide a bit...for assembly....

I just saw a steel rack with 3000 pound per shelf capacity at the local Menards store..... so who knows they may get moved one more time someday when the molassis is freely flowing in January....

I am thinking of the bigger insulated off-grid shed that is still on the wish list...
but I do like the DIY route regardless....

 

[michael d]

64 cells 280Ah version 3 cells:

just thinking out loud on the keyboard????
280Ah x 8 = 2240Ah when connected connected in Parallel
each set of 8 cells in parallel will have 2240Ah at a nominal voltage of 3.2 volts...

3.2 nominal volts x 8 = 25.6 (nominal voltage) when they are connected in Series...

the full battery ESS will be 25.6 volts nominal at 2240Ah using all 64 cells in one large ESS.... 8P8S configuration...

if one wants to keep at a 0.25C rate of charge then that would be 2240/4= 560Amps

every two panels has the potential for 20 amps charge current so it would take 560 /20 x2 = 56 of the 60-cell 250-watt PV panels...and approximately 14 Electrodacus DSSR50's to do that amount of charging...

as far as 0.25C discharge rate..... that again is 560 Amps and I am not planning to pull that high of amperage out of the ESS at one time anyways...

Eight 4/0 cables will connect to a thick tinned busbar on the negative end and Eight 4/0 cables will connect to the thick tinned busbar on the positive end of the 64 cell ESS build....from which the inverters will be connected with nh type fuses and 4/0 cables.... no single inverter will pull more tan 400 amps ( probably closer to 250 amps >>> maybe)

smaller inverters will be utilized for the smaller loads to be a bit more efficient....

the Electrodacus SBMS0 can control up to 18000 watts of solar PV panels and can be split into a small array and a large array for diversion purposes...
18000 / 250 = 72 of the 250-watt 60-cell solar panels.... ( I have 80 of those )
each Electrodacus DSSR50 can do 4 solar panels... ( I have 14 right now of the DSSR50's)

 

[michael d]

when I have time I will put it on graph paper
and take a picture of the graph paper design (old school)
and will take more pictures as the build progresses...

working to get a replacement cell delivered right now as one cell had defective welded-on screw hole....
and the machinist is in progress for accurate holes in the thicker silver plated busbars

again slow as molassis in January (my progress at times) but I have many other things to do during the day also....

 

[michael d]

64 cells 280Ah version 3 cells:

There will be 65 and a half cells now!!! I ordered a replacement and will get 2 for the price of one plus the one cell with a bad welded-on screw hole I can experiment with and to try to fix >>>> that is the half cell)....

March 8th, 2024 update:
I reformat the " LFP Rested Open Circuit voltage" into Excel then saved it in a pdf file so it fits onto a one-page printable file...
I can take this into the off-grid solar power shed for offline review...
still, no one has produced the actual source of this...
but when the LiFePO4 is resting after being charged it usually settles down near 27 volts in my Electrodacus SBMS0 builds in the 2P8S and 4P8S configurations with only the passive balancing of the SBMS0...

the "NEEY 15 AMP active balancer" arrived but not ready to hook it up yet... no time etc...

a 100 pack of M6 x 30mm set screws arrived today,,,, I ordered a second batch of those also... Amazon was the better price with free delivery etc for me...for the grub screws/set screws... 64 cells need 128 set screws/grub screws.... after using my rewards point etc >>> I have only $24.45 invested in 200 of those...

Every day it is below freezing in the morning but still about 64-70 degrees Fahrenheit in the insulated off-grid solar power shed...so good to work inside there in the cold morning while the ice goes away ....

 

[42OhmsPA]

Glad to see the seller did something about the busted terminal.

 

[michael d]

64 cells 280Ah version 3 cells:

114 slotted holes in the new busbars completed by the local machinist for 52 dollars >>>> on 57 of the 1/4inch x 1inch by 4inch h110 copper silverplated busbars that will be used for the cell interconnects... to make the series connections on the ESS battery build.
He did an excellent accurate job of milling for a minimal expense...
He showed me how he made them on the American-made 3-phase milling machine with the end mill and precision sliding tables machine.... very cool....
I picked them up today 3/9/2024.

Tonight is daylight saving time change in South Dakota and most states in the USA
Good morning. Tomorrow is the start of daylight saving time, which means a) an extra hour of light in the evening and b) if you start your karaoke version of Matchbox Twenty’s “3AM” at exactly 1:59:03am on Sunday, you will have the entire bar screaming about being lonely right as the time changes.
PSA: Don’t forget, the clocks “spring forward” one hour at 2am for daylight saving time.

 

[michael d]

64 cells 280Ah version 3 cells:

114 slotted holes in the new busbars completed by the local machinist for 52 dollars >>>> on 57 of the 1/4inch x 1inch by 4inch h110 copper silverplated busbars that will be used for the cell interconnects... to make the series connections on the ESS battery build.

the series connection will be done on the short end of these 280Ah prismatic cells and should have minimal to no movement but it gives me a little bit of wiggle room as I assemble and adjust the cell's positions into the 8x8 block...
and these busbars will be perpendicular to the ones below that make the parallel connections....Yes,,, yes sounds confusing but it is not...

the main thing is: do not short from positive to negative.....so paying attention is very important (coffee time)
and time to unload the truck...etc

 

[Steve_S]

Gotta say it, for all of us thinking it, Can't wait to see photo's of this BEAST one you got it together & operating.