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diy solar

A123, Battery EVO, Big Battery, Tech Direct, etc.

shot428

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This is all about the info I have put together over the past few days because I bought a A123 based battery from Battery Evo and set out to find all I could about it in order to get the most out of it.

You can get ready to use batteries with the old A123 modules from Battery Evo, Big Battery, and Tech Direct, there are probably others ? For DIY projects you will find old A123 modules at Battery Hookup and Green Tec Auto

Like all companies there are good and bad reviews, I hope we can keep this thread about the batteries and not the companies though I will say my experience with Evo was very good and I did in fact buy a 2nd battery just yesterday. (will share more in a different thread)

You'll see I have attached several pdf's they include the spec sheets, the care & maintenance guide, and design guides for these OLD A123 systems.

The old was an american company that went bankrupt. The new is a chinese company that bought the old.

You can see the NEW stuff here https://www.geebattery.com/battery/a123-batteries-for-sale and yes they have batteries too, 48v 400ah that weighs 680 lbs was one I saw.

The major difference between the old and the new that matters is the voltages,

The old a 0% SOC = 3 and a 100% SOC = 3.6

The new a 0% SOC = 3.2 and a 100% SOC = 3.65

So, if you have these batteries, your max bulk charge setting should not exceed 57.6v for a 48v battery and float should be 56

And the really cool thing I learned is that they self balance. Simply run the battery down to 0% SOC and then charge it back to 100%. It does this because there is a balance board built into the NEC module.

Will was aware that this was a better battery chemistry but said a few years ago that he did not want to become a battery salesman. But here is one of his vids with an A123 module


Here is a tear down of a big battery that uses A123 NEC modules, my Evo has 2 of these in a bigger box wired in parallel.

 

Attachments

  • A123sys.pdf
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  • 4_Guidelines.pdf
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  • b24d4f5b63934c59d43e93b3bb4db60a.pdf
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  • 201929141914_A123 Amp20.pdf
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  • charging.pdf
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  • 468623916e3ecc5b8a5f3d20825eb98d.pdf
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Here is what Will said,


I should have made a longer video on the a123 packs. They are the highest quality LiFePO4 battery that big battery has sold.

I'm just tired of making videos about used cells. They are not for everyone.

Yeah big battery needs better customer service. I get pissed at them often, and had some issues in the past. They usually fix anything I complain about, so that's nice. I would say that they are a million times better than other used cell suppliers or "recertified battery" vendors out there. Watch my older videos to see what I mean. So many issues.

I know that people want cheap batteries, but you get what you pay for. If people want better customer service, buy something that costs 4x as much. They will answer every question you have instantly, and have a better warranty etc. Considering how much they are making, I wouldn't expect anything amazing.

I am getting tired of reviewing budget products. At first I wanted to help my viewers, but now I think people need to fork over the cash and buy the UL listed products. It will cost a lot more money, but everyone will be satisfied in other ways.

When buying used cells, expect problems. Big battery will return anything that doesn't work as advertised. It's a good deal, but by no means is it competitive with a new cell battery manufacturer. Not by a long shot.

The a123 cells are the best that they have sold. They are brand new. They are over delivering on capacity claims too. I really should have talked them up more but I don't want to "sell" batteries in my videos. I need every video to educate in some way. I will do long term testing on it (am doing right now) and let you know how well they work.

the link
 
There is no way I'll be buying a laser welder but these were mentioned as maybe ?

I wonder if anyone has any experience ?


 
There is no way I'll be buying a laser welder but these were mentioned as maybe ?

I wonder if anyone has any experience ?


I know I'm six months late but the Malectrics is comparable to the Kweld. I know the Kweld has a max amperage of about 2000A unless you trick the calibration.
It's not enough to do copper alone. The trick is (learned this from Endless Sphere) to do a nickel copper sandwich. It actually might be best to do nickel plated steel as the bread for the sandwich since it is more resistant. You absolutely need something like a Kweld to do this though. None of the other spot welders I'm aware of can put out 1500+ amps. Look for the threads on ES about this topic and you'll figure out what power levels people are using to accomplish this. Probably in excess of 100J.
A lot of people have gone the route of using a PCB for these tabbed pouches. Solder the tabs up to a thick thick PCB board with a massive amount of copper in it to handle the current flow or there are also boards with screw holes. The hole punch/screw to a bus bar idea is also all over YouTube.
 
I am the one that ordered the two sold, and I haven't found an issue yet. The only issue is that they're 6s per module, so either you have to make an 18s battery, or cut two out. My current plan is to (carefully) make two cuts in two of the modules and bridge over them with either ground strap or wire.

I even tried to see if I could talk to the BMS, and I can get a CAN message out, but it's pretty much empty. I'm not sure that would really be much use anyway. I have two BMS on the slow boat from China that will support either 18s or 16s, whichever I choose.

Let me know if you want to know anything else about them. I have one sitting next to me and 5 more in the garage, most waiting on the BMS.
 
Wow, thanks! So did they really come in a Lot of 3 modules? If they're 6s why are they being sold as 48V? Pardon the ignorance I'm still new to the battery game
 
The voltages on the ebay ad are accurate as far as I can tell, and they're "roughly" 48V, which is a bit of a stretch, and is a bit too high for most inverters. You can do a search for 18s in the forum to see some more discussions, but the bottom line is that most inverters will not support 18s. Victron apparently will, but just barely. Some will support 64V input, but not charge that high. There's also an option for using two in series for 120ish volts on a high-voltage inverter, but I think it's easiest to just cut a couple out and make a pair of real 48V batteries out of them.

The packs are put together very well, so I hate to cut into them, but it looks like it should be very easy. The actual cells are well below the battery bar, so the risk of damage is low. My main concern is not heating the batteries too much with soldering, but even that looks like low risk.
 
How does the 6s13p factor into this approach? If the pouches were simply 18s then cutting out two of them would be straightforward like you describe. What else would need to be reconfigured in this unit to achieve 16s?
 
Each module is arranged in groups of 13 pouches stacked together in parallel, which is the "13p", and there are 6 of them in each module arranged in series (like putting multiple batteries in a flashlight), which is the 6s. Three modules then need to be connected in series to create a full 48ish volt battery.

To make a 16s pack, one of the modules needs to have two of the cells removed.

In the picture below, the red lines show where the individual cells are in a module. Each one is composed of 18 flat packs connected together with the battery bars connecting the packs together in parallel. In the original picture at the bottom of the post, you can see the battery bars are split on alternate sides, which connects the cells in series. The connection on the bottom left is the negative terminal. The next battery in series is flipped, so negative is on the top, and the positive of the first battery is bridged to it. So on down the line until you get to the positive terminal on the bottom right. this makes a 20ish V module.

Removing two of the cells requires cutting where I circled in yellow and bridging the gap with wire/wires where the blue line is. You could also just make one cut between the second and third cell, and solder a wire onto the battery bar on the left side of the third cell, where I have the purple wire, but then you would lose the ability to use the connection on the right and just have a wire hanging out, which I don't like.

The picture doesn't show the straps that are on most of the cell terminals that will make it easy to connect them together if set side-by-side. They also have brackets with metal inserts in the corners that will make it very easy to securely stack the batteries using bolts and/or rods.

They seem like well made batteries. My BMSs are now sitting in LA, so I hope to have them by the weekend and then I might be able to test them further.

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S U P E R helpful! ? thanks so much! I was going to go ahead and purchase some grade B prismatic cells andDIY a 305ah bank that way but this takes care of so many random considerations like containers/boxes, bus bars, etc.

Where are you in AZ? I have family that grew up in PHX but now live out in Chandler.
 
How many and what brand did you order? If you don't mind me asking

My BMSs are now sitting in LA, so I hope to have them by the weekend and then I might be able to test them further.
 
There's no way to connect 3-4 of these units to create a 48v system without removing cells is there?
 
I'm in Tucson, just down the road!

I ordered this: https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/jk-b2a24s20p-bms

which was out of stock when from 18650 battery store when I ordered, but looks like it's in stock now. That appears to support 24s, and 200A, which should be plenty, and that brand seems to be popular, but I'm not an expert in solar BMS. My experience with these batteries is with drones, which are much smaller and use BMS integrated into the charger, not the battery.

There is no way to create a 48V battery with these without modification, but there might be ways to use 3 together without modification. The maximum voltage is around 64V, which is the maximum voltage supported by some inverters, such as the Victrons. Most inverters only go up to 60V or so, and others might support 63-64V, but will not support charging that high of a voltage, although an external charger might work if you can find one.

In the best case, it ends up being a tradeoff that might negate the savings in the cost of the battery, since it limits the choices of hardware and/or adds addition hardware requirements, such as an additional charger.

I'm still on the fence on what hardware I'm going to use, which is why I haven't modified anything yet, but I'm likely going to modify them to be 48V, or possibly compromise and remove only 1 cell if I can find a way to make 17s work, which should have a max voltage of around 60V.
 
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