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Adding a DC Server Rack to my Enphase System

I would like to use solar energy during the night (stored in my battery) for my house needs and charging the EV when it is early dark in the winter (50miles 17kW~).

I'm still looking for somebody to say. go with that inverter, connect it like this and enjoy!
That is what I do. I wish I could say go with the Schneider but I do not have any experience. If you do it like @GXMnow you should be okay. When the grid is up there should be no issues with Enphase and the Schneider. The real question is how other Schneider users have made it work to get through the peak period with batteries. . It is very simple with the Outback Skybox but rumors are that the Skybox will be discontinued in favor of the Mojave which has more features. with that inverter and connect it like this.
 
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I just re read the message from sig solar and if I read between the lines I come to a simplified version of the truth.

With one added sentence (in bold) and one edit, I'd agree with what they said. Basically, use a charge controller or a different grid interactive battery inverter, as I recommended I'd look into the Outback Radian.
Good morning,


The Schneider Conext XW Pro 6.8kW inverter has had issues with charging from AC when on grid Enphase microinverters, and I cannot recommend the two to be used in the same system. Due to this, I would recommend either replacing your microinverters with charge controllers or searching for another hybrid inverter to use with your microinverters. OR ANY AC GRID TIE INVERTER


Mars Hurtado

Signature Solar LLC

903-441-2090 Ext-141
 
I had a Radian seven years ago but it did not have AC coupling at the time. I have confidence in Outback and later went with the Skybox but now the Radian has AC coupling. The Skybox is reportedly being discontinued in favor of the Mojave which has been designed to be grid interactive. The decision should be made on what functionality the user wants. It is a moving target and the features are continually being improved.
The Radian is a tried and proven design but it is not All in One like the Mojave or the Skybox if that makes a difference. The Skybox and Mojave were designed to be grid interactive and I think the heritage of the Radian is before grid interactivity became popular. It all depends on features and cost benefits.
 
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You've had two recommendations for Outback. Give them a call?
I was hesitant about Outback as it was not on the list of inverters mentioned by the Enphase whitepaper. I have contacted them as you are all very enthusiastic about the product.

On outback's webpage it states for the Radian:

Interested in AC Coupling?​

Right now, AC Coupling is supported by OutBack's Radian Series inverter/charger and SkyBox True Hybrid Energy System. This plug-and-play solution is for residential string inverter and micro inverter systems, offering full generator support and the ability to scale both storage and the inverter.


Outback Radian GS8048A-01 8,000 Watt Advanced Inverter/Charger​

GS8048A-01 $4,320.29

OR

OutBack Power Mojave Inverter OGHI8048A Off-Grid and Grid-Hybrid 48VDC 120/240VAC​

OGHI8048A $5,466.67

EG4-LL Lithium Batteries Kit (V2) | (48v 100Ah) x 6 | 30.72kWh | 6 Server Rack Batteries With Pre-Assembled Enclosed Rack | With Door & Wheels​

$11,043.00


Anything missing?

Outback response. TBC, I requested from them a model Mojave/Radion/etc so I can contact Enphase. I understand now that Enphase has for sure the right freq. shift programs/patterns for the SMA/Schneider/Victors/Tesla, as per white paper. Outback was not on Enphases' list, we will se what they come back with. I wouldn't want to buy $16k of stuff which then doesn't work.

-----#-----
Dear Marc,

First of all thanks a lot for getting in touch with us.

I advance you that “E” model has not the Frequency Shift Firmware implanted, only the “A” models.

By the other hand, I suggest you to contact with ENPHASE due to not all battery-based inverters employ the same frequency shift settings, therefore , as per I understand, Enphase must to confirm you the compatibility.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards,

Juan Antonio Espada
Sales Director EMEA - Outback Power & Renewable Solutions

P: +34 679 05 00 97
F: +49 9122 79 889 21
 

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I was hesitant about Outback as it was not on the list of inverters mentioned by the Enphase whitepaper. I have contacted them as you are all very enthusiastic about the product.

On outback's webpage it states for the Radian:

Interested in AC Coupling?​

Right now, AC Coupling is supported by OutBack's Radian Series inverter/charger and SkyBox True Hybrid Energy System. This plug-and-play solution is for residential string inverter and micro inverter systems, offering full generator support and the ability to scale both storage and the inverter.


Outback Radian GS8048A-01 8,000 Watt Advanced Inverter/Charger​

GS8048A-01 $4,320.29

OR

OutBack Power Mojave Inverter OGHI8048A Off-Grid and Grid-Hybrid 48VDC 120/240VAC​

OGHI8048A $5,466.67

EG4-LL Lithium Batteries Kit (V2) | (48v 100Ah) x 6 | 30.72kWh | 6 Server Rack Batteries With Pre-Assembled Enclosed Rack | With Door & Wheels​

$11,043.00


Anything missing?

Outback response. TBC, I requested from them a model Mojave/Radion/etc so I can contact Enphase. I understand now that Enphase has for sure the right freq. shift programs/patterns for the SMA/Schneider/Victors/Tesla, as per white paper. Outback was not on Enphases' list, we will se what they come back with. I wouldn't want to buy $16k of stuff which then doesn't work.

-----#-----
Dear Marc,

First of all thanks a lot for getting in touch with us.

I advance you that “E” model has not the Frequency Shift Firmware implanted, only the “A” models.

By the other hand, I suggest you to contact with ENPHASE due to not all battery-based inverters employ the same frequency shift settings, therefore , as per I understand, Enphase must to confirm you the compatibility.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards,

Juan Antonio Espada
Sales Director EMEA - Outback Power & Renewable Solutions

P: +34 679 05 00 97
F: +49 9122 79 889 21
Or Hoymiles, 8.6kWAC < $5000 with the zero-export meter and my secret sauce micro-DC current limiters. However, it has a bit of a lead time for me to get the boards made for you.
 
Or Hoymiles....with zero export.....
I am not sure I understand how that is a solution consistent with the title? What does zero export have to do with the OP's goal? Where would you connect the DC rack batteries and do the Hoymiles have the algorithm to AC couple 16kW in Enphase micros? I am not sure even the 15k SolArk can manage that much AC coupling.
 
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I am not sure I understand how that is a solution consistent with the title? Where would you connect the DC rack batteries and do the Hoymiles have the algorithm to AC couple that many Enphase micros.
I'm working on a new product with UL certification to couple any 51Vdc rack battery and charge controller to a bank of microinverters, by allowing the battery to mimic a solar panel with a hard current limit, not to exceed the rating of the microinverter. The prototype works great! The Hoymiles inverters are just the inverters. I'm designing the control algorithm. The last two pieces I need are the RS485 program to interface between the zero-export meter and the inverter to control when it discharges, and a nice rack mount package to house it in.
 
Cables and Solar Panels?
Hahaha. Have 38 of them (y)

Sounds good. Waiting for Outback (very responsive support, but a bit high level) to recommend the Radian or Mojave (I think the Radian is probably the right choice as it is strongly linked with micro inverter solutions in their documentation).

After that comes the difficult part. Finding somebody at Enphase who will be (willing) capable of confirming the compatibility of the Outback Inverter with the IQ8A inverters.

I will post everything i get back.

Thx a ton to all of you willing to help me out!! Awesome.
 
Finding somebody at Enphase who will be (willing) capable of confirming the compatibility of the Outback Inverter with the IQ8A inverters.
The Enphase inverters are UL1741SA compliant so they will will be able to respond to frequency Watt iterations in an AC coupling situation. The issue is finding a grid forming inverter or inverters that can handle 16 kW of any modern GT inverter or micros.
 
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Most people call that vaporware. But it is not done yet and certainly not tested with 16 kW of Enphase micros as the OP requested.
True. Back in the day, the company I worked for took an order for 100, 5kVA telecom inverters before I had even put pencil to paper on the design, and promised delivery in 3 months. It took 12 months, but we delivered! "Vaporware" sells if it's backed by honesty, trust, and people who need it.

Here, I started with an idea in August, and I've been testing it for over a month. I have developed a first draft PCBA to validate and received an estimate from Intertek for testing. Rule #1 of a profitable new business, "Orders come before products, because if you don't know what your customer wants you're wasting your time." Unless you have deep pockets for R&D. This is a relatively easy product the way I'm doing it, and I know there is a big market for it where there is a poor or no NEM program because it will be able to do exactly what the OP is asking for. It's just a matter of time.
 
Here, I started with an idea in August,
I am aware of you experiments. However I would hate to lose you contributions because you did not realize that self promotion could get you banned. Here are the rules so you can be aware of them.

I am not a moderator but a moderator might not give you a warning,
 
From: Outback Sales <sales@outbackpower.com>
Subject: RE: Hybrid Inverter

Marc,

We would recommend the Radian for your application. Please let us know if you require any additional information. Have a great weekend!

Best Regards,

Deanna Howard
Sales Representative III
ENERGY SYSTEMS

------#-----

From: Maren Saddler <maren.saddler@se.com>
Subject: Schneider Solar

Hey Marc!

Looks like you’ve been trying to reach us. Apologies for the delayed response.

Will have someone from Northern Arizona Wind & Sun reach out to you.

Please reach out via email or phone for anything else!

Best,

Maren Saddler
SolarM 619-548-5216
E maren.saddler@se.com
W solar.se.com
San Diego, CA
USA​
 
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I bought my Skybox from Northern Arizona Wind & Sun. They ar very responsive and they can tell you when they think the Mojave will be available. If it is soon I would go with the Mojave because like the Skybox it is designed from the ground up to be grid interactive. What that means to me is better AC coupling capability. I have not seen the specs on how much AC coupling it can handle versus the Radian but that is an important issue based on the size of your Enphase system. It is also an All in One which means you don't need any more components which you would need with the Radian. I had a Radian seven years ago and sold it because it could not do AC coupling which has recently been added with firmware upgrades. The Radian is a tried and true design.
 
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I just found this thread today and saw my name mentioned a few times. I will add my 2 cents here.

From what I understand, backup power is not high on the priority list. In that case, it could make things far easier. AC coupling is really only an issue when you go off grid in a grid failure situation.

If you don't want to use a separate load panel for the battery power, then you need an inverter that can push from batteries to the grid. I know the Schneider XW-Pro does this very well, but as we have reported, it won't start a charge cycle on it's own. The SW line can start a charge cycle, but it can't push back to the grid. It will work only to supply power to loads in a separate panel after the inverter.

The Outback Radian, Skybox, and Mojave appear to have decent software for this and can push to grid, but I do not have any hands on experience about how well they would function.

The large array of Enphase PV Solar is not a big problem. If I had 16 KW of Enphase, I would split the system. If you are not worried about running off grid, then just leave all of the Enphase in the main panel. Problem solved. It won't work when the grid is down, you said that was not a worry. But what if you do have a grid failure? Well, I am sure that much power is going to several breakers in the iQ combiner box. Just take one or two of the strings and have them on a transfer relay. While the grid is up, they connect to the iQ combiner breaker. If the grid goes down, have them connect to a breaker in the backup loads panel. If you have 38 panel to make 16,000 watts, that means 420 watt panels. 6,800 / 420 = 16 x 420 watt panels could AC couple on a Schneider XW-Pro. And 19 x 420 watt panels could go to an 8,000 watt Radian. Choose the two breakers that go to less panels than these limits.

When I first got my XW-Pro, I was eager to put it to use. At first I only connected the AC1 grid input to my main panel, on just a 20 amp circuit. I had 18 KWH's of batteries on it. I se the charge block and the grid sell times to charge while the sun was up and to grid sell from 4 pm to 9 pm during the peak rate time of use. And messing with the settings, I never could get it to charge by itself, but if I hit bulk charge in the morning, it would charge up and go to standby. And when 4 pm rolled around, it would just export back to the panel whatever current I set until 9 pm. The only manual intervention was hitting bulk charge each morning. Talk about easy wiring, just 4 wires L1 L2 Neu. Ground. But this setup would only charge at a fixed rate and export at a fixed rate. It had no idea of power available or load.

Once I installed the backup loads panel and moved over my essential loads, I started to see how good the XW-Pro really is. It still would not charge on it's own, but it now knew the load on the output so it was now able to adjust it's current draw to follow the demand. Since most of my load moved to the backup load panel, I reduced the grid sell to just 3 amps. At 4 pm, I did not see it selling any current, the battery power was at zero. The Enphase Solar, which is now in the backup loads panel as well, was making enough power that it was running all my backup loads and pushing more than 3 amps back to the grid, so the XW sat idle. As the solar fell off, the XW ramped up to keep 3 amps going back to the main panel. That is a great feature. But still, it won't self start a charge cycle. That is a stupid software mistake by Schneider.

I don't know how the Outback inverters work in those situations.

To do a good job of powering your home while on grid, you do need a way to monitor the power being used. Some systems use CT's or current transformers on the grid input lines and with the voltage also being monitored they can measure the power that is going in or out of the system. A smart system can use that data to adjust battery charge rate and grid power export to keep the grid at zero power. It all comes down to the software to make that work. Some systems do it pretty well. Others need some help. 400bird and I programmed our own boxes to force the XW-Pro to do it very well.
 
Hey Marc,
My situation is very close to yours and I see very good suggestions in this thread. The only difference is that I already have Enchange batteries and 60Kwh of LiFePO4 coming next week. I'm leaning towards the Schneider and plan to use the 60 as my dump "buffer" since I want to be off-grid. I'll let you know what I end up with and how well it integrates, once I get that far. (buying an EV in the future when the hybrid-ice takes a crap)
 
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I was hesitant about Outback as it was not on the list of inverters mentioned by the Enphase whitepaper. I have contacted them as you are all very enthusiastic about the product.

On outback's webpage it states for the Radian:

Interested in AC Coupling?​

Right now, AC Coupling is supported by OutBack's Radian Series inverter/charger and SkyBox True Hybrid Energy System. This plug-and-play solution is for residential string inverter and micro inverter systems, offering full generator support and the ability to scale both storage and the inverter.


Outback Radian GS8048A-01 8,000 Watt Advanced Inverter/Charger​

GS8048A-01 $4,320.29

OR

OutBack Power Mojave Inverter OGHI8048A Off-Grid and Grid-Hybrid 48VDC 120/240VAC​

OGHI8048A $5,466.67

EG4-LL Lithium Batteries Kit (V2) | (48v 100Ah) x 6 | 30.72kWh | 6 Server Rack Batteries With Pre-Assembled Enclosed Rack | With Door & Wheels​

$11,043.00


Anything missing?

Outback response. TBC, I requested from them a model Mojave/Radion/etc so I can contact Enphase. I understand now that Enphase has for sure the right freq. shift programs/patterns for the SMA/Schneider/Victors/Tesla, as per white paper. Outback was not on Enphases' list, we will se what they come back with. I wouldn't want to buy $16k of stuff which then doesn't work.

-----#-----
Dear Marc,

First of all thanks a lot for getting in touch with us.

I advance you that “E” model has not the Frequency Shift Firmware implanted, only the “A” models.

By the other hand, I suggest you to contact with ENPHASE due to not all battery-based inverters employ the same frequency shift settings, therefore , as per I understand, Enphase must to confirm you the compatibility.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards,

Juan Antonio Espada
Sales Director EMEA - Outback Power & Renewable Solutions

P: +34 679 05 00 97
F: +49 9122 79 889 21
I have been looking at the Mojave for a few months now. It is the only think i can see that explicitly supports AC-coupling (frequency shift/etc). Outback refers to it now as UL 1741-SA.
AS far as i understand the battery charge/discharge settings have preset and custom. As i understand you can plug in any battery; including LiFPO4.

Have been looking for people who have bought it and what their experience while I plan and collect funds for my project.

Mojave Energy Storage System: AC Coupling Demonstration​

OutBack Power's Mojave ESS An Introduction​

Mojave Energy Storage System: AC Coupling 101​

 
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