Can Solar & Wind Fix Everything (e.g., Climate Change) with a battery break-through?

[Checkthisout]

A warmer planet is good.

Cold planet bad.

Glacier bad. I'm not scared when it's sunny out.

I would be scared if it started snowing one day and never stopped.

 

[aenyc]

When reality bites back lol

Hertz Takes $245 Million Hit as it Offloads 20,000 Electric Vehicles and Goes Back to Petrol – The Daily Sceptic

Hertz has announced it’s going to take a $245 million hit as it offloads 20,000 EVs because too few people want to rent them and goes back to petrol.

dailysceptic.org

 

[Hedges]

When reality bites back lol

Hertz Takes $245 Million Hit as it Offloads 20,000 Electric Vehicles and Goes Back to Petrol – The Daily Sceptic

Hertz has announced it’s going to take a $245 million hit as it offloads 20,000 EVs because too few people want to rent them and goes back to petrol.

dailysceptic.org

"Some of the Teslas, which are no more than two years old, have been listed for sale at $14,000 – little more than a third of their $40,000 price tag when new."

On Hertz site, lowest I find is $21k

Used Electric Vehicles for Sale | EV Cars & SUVs

Shop quality electric vehicles at a Hertz Car Sales location near you. We offer a big selection, incredible no-haggle prices & a buy back guarantee.

www.hertzcarsales.com

 

[aenyc]

"Some of the Teslas, which are no more than two years old, have been listed for sale at $14,000 – little more than a third of their $40,000 price tag when new."

On Hertz site, lowest I find is $21k

Used Electric Vehicles for Sale | EV Cars & SUVs

Shop quality electric vehicles at a Hertz Car Sales location near you. We offer a big selection, incredible no-haggle prices & a buy back guarantee.

www.hertzcarsales.com

Maybe those were sold, its a reference to the Telegraph story...
What i wonder though is how many silly people will buy an EV (Tesla) with 70-80K miles, knowing that the battery under ideal conditions will need to be replaced in another 30K (but realistically much earlier and thats if it was never damaged). Thats another 20K!
I think reality is going to do a double

 

[Checkthisout]

With free barf stains and cigarette burns.

 

[Hedges]

What i wonder though is how many silly people will buy an EV (Tesla) with 70-80K miles, knowing that the battery under ideal conditions will need to be replaced in another 30K (but realistically much earlier and thats if it was never damaged). Thats another 20K!
I think reality is going to do a double

I think Tesla batteries are holding up for 100's of thousands of miles. They manage temperature, treat the batteries well.
Some other brands degrade badly.

 

[aenyc]

I think Tesla batteries are holding up for 100's of thousands of miles. They manage temperature, treat the batteries well.
Some other brands degrade badly.

Baloney.
LiO battery is LiO battery.
They degrade, badly, even under IDEAL use. Sure, they use software tricks to manage the charge and discharge, but software tricks are software tricks (ever saw a LiO battery go from 60% to dead in 15 seconds?)
A car is very far from ideal for thousands of reasons (this is why Insuarance companies total EV with a minor fender benderr)
(Just look at your smartphone, battery is at 50% after 3-4 years).
(Even iPhones (which i have had many of) battery degrades, and Apple is NOTORIOS for BSing users via software tricks)

PS. I am in software business, i am very well aware how easy it is to make software do whatever tricks you want, but reality always wins in the end (Such as LiO battery going from 60% to dead in 15 seconds)

 

[Checkthisout]

I think Tesla batteries are holding up for 100's of thousands of miles. They manage temperature, treat the batteries well.
Some other brands degrade badly.

There has to be data on this

 

[Hedges]

Not as good as I hoped, not as bad as you suggest?

https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-long-does-a-tesla-battery-last/

"

What Tesla's Battery Warranty Says About Degradation​

Like any car company, Tesla designs its products and its warranties so that the company doesn't burn through cash replacing parts at its own expense. You might think of the battery warranty in a Tesla as a worst-case scenario. In the highly unlikely situation that the battery dies the same day the warranty expires, what's the earliest you might be on the hook for an expensive battery replacement?
Before 2020, Tesla provided an eight-year, unlimited-mileage warranty on Model S and Model X batteries and drive units. That guarantee has since been revised to eight years or 150,000 miles for those vehicles. Tesla's less expensive models have shorter mileage limits. The Model 3 RWD is covered for 8 years or 100,000 miles, while Performance, Long Range AWD, and Standard Range AWD versions of the Model 3 and Model Y are guaranteed for 8 years or 120,000 miles. The company specifies its batteries will retain at least 70 percent of their original capacity (also known as 30 percent degradation) during the warranty period. In other words, as long as a 303-mile Model Y Performance is still storing enough energy to cover at least 212 EPA-rated miles on a full charge, it's performing as intended.

What Tesla Says About Battery Lifespan​

According to Tesla's 2021 impact report, its batteries are designed to last the life of the vehicle, which the company estimates as roughly 200,000 miles in the U.S. and 150,000 miles in Europe. Tesla's own data show Model S and X batteries retain about 90 percent of their original capacity on average over 200,000 miles of use. Tesla CEO Elon Musk also once tweeted that the battery pack in the Model 3 and Model Y was designed to last 1,500 charging cycles, which translates to about 300,000 miles for Standard Range models and about 500,000 miles for Long Range versions."


Better figures here:

How Long Does A Tesla Battery Last? The Surprising Truth About Tesla Battery Lifespan

Purchasing a Tesla for the first time brings excitement and plenty of questions, and the largest question is often how long you should expect the battery to last. Combustion engines can last anywhere from 100,000 to 1,000,000 miles with proper maintenance and care, but when it comes to a car...

carbuzz.com

"In Tesla's 2022 Impact Report, the company estimates that after 200,000 miles driven in the US, its EVs only lose 12% capacity on average. If you head over to different Tesla forums, you'll see plenty of posts from owners who claim similar percentages no matter the year. This is particularly impressive when you think of how far Teslas's battery technology has come since the first Model S hit the road, with the heavily used nickel-cobalt-aluminum lithium-ion chemistry only getting better over time."

 

[aenyc]

The judgement is out on that.
I personally do not believe it, given my (lengthy) experience with LiO batteries in general.
There is a lot of censorship online with regards to EV (it is a globalist darling), but the real word of mouth data is not in EV favor, at least in my area of NJSSR where almost everyone has one (But as a second or third car lol).
I dont think Insurance companies would total these EVs with minor damage, and the resale values of EVs do not lie.

 

[Hedges]

The best deal is a used car with low resale value.
For instance, some years ago I observed minivan and SUV had same purchase price, but lease of minivan cost much more. That would be because residual value was low. Buying a lease-return minivan would be the way to go.

Similarly, European luxury cars, so long as not unreliable. I had a Mercedes 280 for a number of years. Considered and test drove a 600SL, think it was $12k used vs. $120k new. (from an era before modern computerized everything, although the 600SL had very expensive active shocks.)

I want an EV to have low resale value. But lots of battery life left and high reliability.
A Model 3, 2 years old with 80k miles for $14k could be good if battery had 280k miles life left. $0.05/mile. Or only 120k miles, $0.12/mile. At least if charging is from my $0.03 or $0.10/kWh PV system. Utility rates $0.30 or $0.60 could negate that.

Compare to $4/gallon 35 mpg Civic, $0.11/mile. Basically the Tesla car that comes with the battery is free.

Oh, I would like an EV with HV battery I can DC connect to, use with an inverter as AC coupled house battery.

 

[Checkthisout]

The best deal is a used car with low resale value.
For instance, some years ago I observed minivan and SUV had same purchase price, but lease of minivan cost much more. That would be because residual value was low. Buying a lease-return minivan would be the way to go.

Similarly, European luxury cars, so long as not unreliable. I had a Mercedes 280 for a number of years. Considered and test drove a 600SL, think it was $12k used vs. $120k new. (from an era before modern computerized everything, although the 600SL had very expensive active shocks.)

I want an EV to have low resale value. But lots of battery life left and high reliability.
A Model 3, 2 years old with 80k miles for $14k could be good if battery had 280k miles life left. $0.05/mile. Or only 120k miles, $0.12/mile. At least if charging is from my $0.03 or $0.10/kWh PV system. Utility rates $0.30 or $0.60 could negate that.

Compare to $4/gallon 35 mpg Civic, $0.11/mile. Basically the Tesla car that comes with the battery is free.

Oh, I would like an EV with HV battery I can DC connect to, use with an inverter as AC coupled house battery.

14k for a newer tesla is a good deal! Even with only 80% capacity left.

 

[aenyc]

The best deal is a used car with low resale value.
For instance, some years ago I observed minivan and SUV had same purchase price, but lease of minivan cost much more. That would be because residual value was low. Buying a lease-return minivan would be the way to go.

Similarly, European luxury cars, so long as not unreliable. I had a Mercedes 280 for a number of years. Considered and test drove a 600SL, think it was $12k used vs. $120k new. (from an era before modern computerized everything, although the 600SL had very expensive active shocks.)

I want an EV to have low resale value. But lots of battery life left and high reliability.
A Model 3, 2 years old with 80k miles for $14k could be good if battery had 280k miles life left. $0.05/mile. Or only 120k miles, $0.12/mile. At least if charging is from my $0.03 or $0.10/kWh PV system. Utility rates $0.30 or $0.60 could negate that.

Compare to $4/gallon 35 mpg Civic, $0.11/mile. Basically the Tesla car that comes with the battery is free.

Oh, I would like an EV with HV battery I can DC connect to, use with an inverter as AC coupled house battery.

The real unsubsidized EV cost is

Electric Vehicles: Unveiling the Hidden Costs • Watts Up With That?

...a Texas think tank says the true cost is the equivalent of USD$17.33 per gallon — or CAD$6.32 per litre — over the life of the car, after factoring in subsidies and incentives.”

wattsupwiththat.com

And that assumes that your battery will hold charge. Thats a very big assumption.
And the fact that Hertz is getting rid of EVs and is going back to gas tells a story for sure.

 

[aenyc]

14k for a newer tesla is a good deal! Even with only 80% capacity left.

But what if its 20%? Its a gamble.
Would you honestly take this gamble?

 

[Checkthisout]

But what if its 20%? Its a gamble.
Would you honestly take this gamble?

Nope!

Capacity is easily tested prior to purchase though.

 

[aenyc]

Nope!

Capacity is easily tested prior to purchase though.

I don't think you can easily test it.

 

[Hedges]

I would expect Tesla to display range based on its learning from operation.
But that is expecting too much, if true that trips start with a rosy range prediction, while it already knows it will address shorter range by directing you to a charging station.

"Easily" tested, not just quickly. Take a 280 mile test drive.

$14k would be great. But $21k was the lowest I saw listed.

Hertz isn't going to care about cost of charging, or effective cost including subsidies. Unless rental of these is different from gas cars, where customers are expected to fill up and charged through the nose when they don't. Probably "buy the tankful at rental" is the approach. (Anybody else thought of setting up a siphon system just before rental car return, and buying gas at half price from returning customers?)

 

[Checkthisout]

I don't think you can easily test it.

The car itself tests it.

 

[Hedges]

Yes, but that is the Fox watching the Hen House.

Report Claims That Tesla Knew About Poor Range Results and Gaslit Its Customers | Edmunds

A report from Reuters shows that Tesla knew about customer range complaints, and tried to distract them from the issue.

www.edmunds.com

 

[Checkthisout]

Yes, but that is the Fox watching the Hen House.

Report Claims That Tesla Knew About Poor Range Results and Gaslit Its Customers | Edmunds

A report from Reuters shows that Tesla knew about customer range complaints, and tried to distract them from the issue.

www.edmunds.com

The car records how many Kwh go into it, yes? It then displays KWh used against mileage driven, yes?

This is used to calculated total battery capacity.

They would have to lie about the first two things. If they are, they need to be sued.

 

[aenyc]

The car records how many Kwh go into it, yes? It then displays KWh used against mileage driven, yes?

This is used to calculated total battery capacity.

They would have to lie about the first two things. If they are, they need to be sued.

Well, the phone battery was also working well. Untill suddenly it dropped from 60% to 1 and then shut down afterwards. LOL

 

[Checkthisout]

Well, the phone battery was also working well. Untill suddenly it dropped from 60% to 1 and then shut down afterwards. LOL

Yeah, you can look at charge/drive history, voltage etc.

Unless Tesla is just lying and deliberately not properly recording data I.E. saying it uptook 1Kwh during a charge but it actually took like 1.2 then determining remaining battery life is pretty easy.

 

[aenyc]

Yeah, you can look at charge/drive history, voltage etc.

Unless Tesla is just lying and deliberately not properly recording data I.E. saying it uptook 1Kwh during a charge but it actually took like 1.2 then determining remaining battery life is pretty easy.

I think you are missing the point.
What i am saying is that previous history can look nice and dandy (and true). But a "used" battery can essentially fail at any moment, and since its out of warranty, that would be $20K+ to replace.
Not a chance anyone would want to gamble on.
Completely different story vs buying a brand new EV with battery warranty.

 

[aenyc]

Death of EVs? Hertz Downscaling Total EV Fleet by a Third • Watts Up With That?

Customers don't want EVs: "... eliminate a disproportionate number of lower margin rentals and reduce damage expense associated with EVs. ..."

wattsupwiththat.com

From the Hertz official SEC statement

Inline XBRL Viewer

Wouldn’t be surprised if Hertz’s $245 million write-off from dumping a third of their EV fleet turns out to be an underestimate, that is only $12,250 estimated loss per vehicle (245 million / 20,000). I mean, who would want a second hand rental EV, which may have been treated harshly, which might even have undetected damage to the battery pack?

 

[D71]

EV scare me because of battery replacement cost and fires. Hyundai issued a statement saying don’t park in garages with recall. Hmmm what was the trigger point for the recall?

Park these cars outside: Hyundai, Kia recall vehicles due to fire risks

The companies are recalling more than 550,000 vehicles that could catch fire while parked or driven.

www.cbsnews.com

I have liked the Hyundai Ioniq 5 since it was planned. The price was really high when Ioniq 5 made initial debut. Everyone seem to love it.
I re-evaluated and waited. Drove by there - looking few weeks back and the Hyundai EV have huge discounts now. I consider ~$15,000 off previous pricing as significant. Sure glad did not buy the Ioniq 5 at marked up pricing.

Have also read this story - where guy damaged his battery by running over something. Turns out he might not have done the damage in some reports and the battery had just swelled. If the battery just swelled Hyundai should have done a warranty replacement. Reported They didn’t.
1 example

Yikes! The $60,000 Hyundai Ioniq 5 Battery Replacement Saga Continues

One unlucky Hyundai Ioniq 5 owner was told he would have to pay nearly CAD 60,000 for a high-voltage battery replacement. Now, there's a second case

www.autoevolution.com

Imagine buying an EV on Sale for ~ $39,000 then told replacement battery is $60,000. Granted this is UsA and Canada pricing mixed but for sake of argument would say cheaper to just buy another new car vs just a battery. Sad day. No company can withstand a complete replacement at full price and survive - remain in business. They will go broke.