Confirming RV power system design - EG4 48V 3K x2 Parallel, Single Phase

[mikes68505]

For output and wiring, i.e., the two EG4 48V 3K units in parallel, singe phase 120V.
Design concept:
1) 10/3 wiring for output, from each inverter to sub panel 2... 6-way small panel box.
2) use two 30A breakers for incoming power, each sending 120V, 3000w // 25A.
3) available then is 120V, 6000w // 50A single phase at sub spanel 2.
4) out going to include:
4.1 - 30A breaker line out to the existing WFDC 30A distribution center.
4.2 - 30A breaker line out to sub panel 1.

Thoughts are that since I already have the 30A distribution center, but also a sub-panel (prepped for inverter but not completed, labeling that sub-panel 1).
I could wire 120V 30A to the main, and 30A to the sub-panel. Along with this, will split off some things to sub-panel 1 like 2nd Air Conditioner, Microwave, and perhaps garage plug-ins (my office).

Appreciate input.
TIA.
-m

 

[FilterGuy]

Trying to understand.

1) you are not wiring the inverters for split phase... correct?
2) The outputs from the two inverters will remain separated... Correct?
3) Is a generator involved? Is that what the ATS is for?
4) What are you doing for the 12V lights/appliances.... will they remain on the existing 12V battery?

 

[mikes68505]

Trying to understand.

1) you are not wiring the inverters for split phase... correct?
2) The outputs from the two inverters will remain separated... Correct?
3) Is a generator involved? Is that what the ATS is for?
4) What are you doing for the 12V lights/appliances.... will they remain on the existing 12V battery?

Hi, thanks for replying and perhaps enlightening me on this build. Your questions...
1) not wiring (at this time) split-phase, only parallel single phase 120V output.
2) the goal is to combine the outputs.
3) I will have a generator involved {in combined system} BUT not for providing 120V power. In separate configuration... I am taking the generator offline (where currently both Gen and Shore power lines come into ATS/WFDC) to ONLY start and charge the 48V battery bank when needed [through EG4 48V Chargeverter]. With this, I am not sure I will further need the ATS.
4) 12V (DC) power is separated from this conversation to focus on 120V AC power 'stuff'. To answer your question though, while building out 48V Lithium system, I am keeping a single 12V AGM battery in play for direct DC requirements (Direct 12V devices… Power tongue Jack [30A], Emergency Brake Activation [~14A], Generator Start [450CCA / 70A]). I have a separate diagram for this. And for indirect 12V needs inside RV, this will come from Inverters to Lynx Distributor to 48V to 12V 20A converter to WFDC panel.

For now, need input/validation if my design to combine 120V 25A output from the two inverters is ok. Thoughts?
-m

 

[FilterGuy]

For now, need input/validation if my design to combine 120V 25A output from the two inverters is ok. Thoughts?

It should work fine. Be sure to read the manual on how to set up parallel inverters.

 

[mikes68505]

It should work fine. Be sure to read the manual on how to set up parallel inverters.

Thanks, appreciated. As for DC side of the design... here's my design concept diagram.
Let me know if you have any thoughts or such. Most definitely welcome ANY input.

 

[FilterGuy]

I would add a disconnect before the DC-DC converter so you can turn it off when the trailer is not in use.

Note: I like that you are leaving the AGM. I have seen people inadvertently screw up their breaks when they tried to replace the factory AGM.

Wiring the connection at the trailer hitch

The Hitch in Trailer Wiring. When working on a trailer, the electrical interface between the trailer and the tow vehicle can present special issues that must be understood and delt with in order to prevent problems The 7-Pin connector can not...

diysolarforum.com

 

[mikes68505]

I would add a disconnect before the DC-DC converter so you can turn it off when the trailer is not in use.

Note: I like that you are leaving the AGM. I have seen people inadvertently screw up their breaks when they tried to replace the factory AGM.

Wiring the connection at the trailer hitch

The Hitch in Trailer Wiring. When working on a trailer, the electrical interface between the trailer and the tow vehicle can present special issues that must be understood and delt with in order to prevent problems The 7-Pin connector can not...

diysolarforum.com

Yeah, have found lithium battery bank just not best or capable of generating CCA needed for gen start. And just simplifies direct needs.

 

[mikes68505]

Also...
Solar, 8 panels, 1600 watts, is series for lithium batter bank charging.
Solar, 175 watts, for AGM battery charging.

 

[mikes68505]

I would add a disconnect before the DC-DC converter so you can turn it off when the trailer is not in use.

Note: I like that you are leaving the AGM. I have seen people inadvertently screw up their breaks when they tried to replace the factory AGM.

Wiring the connection at the trailer hitch

The Hitch in Trailer Wiring. When working on a trailer, the electrical interface between the trailer and the tow vehicle can present special issues that must be understood and delt with in order to prevent problems The 7-Pin connector can not...

diysolarforum.com

Oh, also... saw your note on suggesting disconnect. Yes... forgot to add that in the diagram but do have small disconnect for the 48V-12V conversion. Thanks. Appreciate your input.

 

[w32514]

What are the standby losses on the those inverters? Some are 75W and higher. 2x75W is lots of power loss.

Victron inverters have low standby losses, which makes them popular for RV's

 

[mikes68505]

What are the standby losses on the those inverters? Some are 75W and higher. 2x75W is lots of power loss.

Victron inverters have low standby losses, which makes them popular for RV's

Thanks... yes I did consider this in the equation. The two EG4 3K's each are about 63 watts idle consumption... and yes higher than compared 47 watts each for a similar Victron set, or 57 watts each for a similar Growatt set. All said, the money I saved not buying Victron... bought me my Rich Solar panels. Hakuna Matata!

 

[w32514]

Thanks... yes I did consider this in the equation. The two EG4 3K's each are about 63 watts idle consumption... and yes higher than compared 47 watts each for a similar Victron set, or 57 watts each for a similar Growatt set. All said, the money I saved not buying Victron... bought me my Rich Solar panels. Hakuna Matata!

126W of idle is 3000WH a day. If you fit 1600W of solar on the roof that is 2 hours a day just for inverter standby.

My Victron 24V 3KVA inverter is 12W idle.

Will your primary charging be solar? Or do you intend to use your generator daily?

 

[Rocketman]

I thought of two things that I think are worth mentioning.

1. I don’t know those batteries… how well does the state of charge work on the bms’s. I have heard that the state of charge in the bms’s doesn’t register small loads. If you find that’s the case - consider adding a shunt based battery monitor- like Victron Smartshunt or BMV712. (Bonus- the shunt and Victron Solar charge controller can setup a Bluetooth network to pass along voltage and current info (temp to if you buy a temp sensor).

2. The picture of the bus bars look like a cheap bus bar that uses brass. You will be better off with a copper (tin plated) bus bar - but they do cost more.

 

[mikes68505]

126W of idle is 3000WH a day. If you fit 1600W of solar on the roof that is 2 hours a day just for inverter standby.

My Victron 24V 3KVA inverter is 12W idle.

Will your primary charging be solar? Or do you intend to use your generator daily?

Thanks for chiming in w32514. Like others with Victrons\, Growatt, or EG4, I'm seeing/hearing the idle consumption in real-time experience is much less than the documentation or YouTube. Hoping mine is less too, guess I'll find out. Either way, the 6 kWh in inverting power and 10 kWh in the battery bank are sized well over my min, med, and max usage numbers. I've estimated that even with my heavy power usage days, AND low or no sun/solar, running gen about 2-3 hrs a day (max to charge entire battery bank if below 15%), with 23 gallons of usable gas from RV/Toyhauler tank, will last me ~18 days (boondocking time)! This will be the first phase of installation, as I'm in NE and won't be able to install the solar panels until the weather returns to something decent.
For charging priority, yes solar first, then gas 4K Onan EVAP generator (in conjunction with EG4 ChargeVerter). Might even play with a small wind turbine one of these days if I can find one that isn't crap. LOL.

 

[mikes68505]

I thought of two things that I think are worth mentioning.

1. I don’t know those batteries… how well does the state of charge work on the bms’s. I have heard that the state of charge in the bms’s doesn’t register small loads. If you find that’s the case - consider adding a shunt based battery monitor- like Victron Smartshunt or BMV712. (Bonus- the shunt and Victron Solar charge controller can setup a Bluetooth network to pass along voltage and current info (temp to if you buy a temp sensor).

2. The picture of the bus bars look like a cheap bus bar that uses brass. You will be better off with a copper (tin plated) bus bar - but they do cost more.

Hey Rocketman thanks for the info and will add to checkpoints. I have seen where many don't register as they are not truly calculating SOC but voltage. I still need to learn this side of things as I connect the bank to the EG4 ChargeVerter, Gen, and AGS (via the contact point on #G4 3K).

 

[mikes68505]

126W of idle is 3000WH a day. If you fit 1600W of solar on the roof that is 2 hours a day just for inverter standby.

My Victron 24V 3KVA inverter is 12W idle.

Will your primary charging be solar? Or do you intend to use your generator daily?

BTW... do you have a single inverter or multiple?