EG4 6500EX Install wiring question

[Jared123]

I'm following Will Prowse's instructions to setup a 48v EG4 6500EX solar/battery system. I have 2 x 6500EX's on the wall, and a sub-panel.

Current plan is to move individual circuits from the main street panel, to the sub panel to run off the inverters, with no connection between the sub-panel to the main street panel.

What's different is that I'm adding an A/C IN for the EG4's so that I can charge the batteries from the street, as well as solar. I plan to run Ground, Load, and Neutral to a 60amp breaker in the house main street panel.

My question is on wiring the 6500EX's A/C OUT to the sub-panel. In Wills video, he shows that you can tie neutral and ground on the same bus bar, but said there were exceptions for grid tie, but I didn't see where he elaborated on that. I think mine still counts as off-grid, but wanted to get peoples thoughts.

1. For what I described, does this still hold true, or should I separate out Neutral and ground?
2. Can I ground the sub-panel box to the ground in the Main panel, or do I need to run to the grounding rod? From what I see in the house main street panel, they tie ground and neutral together in there, so that had me questioning things.
3. I also have a long grounding screw that came with the panel, do I need to install that? I think that bonds the ground and neutral together?

Here are some pictures to give context. Sorry if I missed any key details you need to help. Let me know and I'll try to get the info to you.

 

[John.DS99]

I will take a crack at this. I am not an expert, but from what I know the principles are as follows;

A. Ground and Neutral are continuous (bonded, connected, equal, or any other damn word you want to use) only in the main panel.
B. Other panels or subpanels or whatever you want to call them are not continuous, connected, bonded, or other bullshit.

It isn't clear exactly why to me (or to anyone else for all I can see) this is necessary. I'm sure someone will jump in and say why. And I assure you that when some expert describes why, I will be watching a TV show about the SuperBowl. because if you follow the conventional wisdom that somebody somewhere on the internet or planet will tell you that is correct.

Don't know why don't care, that is what people say. I try to do things the right way, and then someone somewhere tries to say why, I fall asleep. This is a DIY forum, the general rule is we try to do things right, and some of us pretend we are national authorities. What you believe is your business/problem.

 

[timselectric]

or should I separate out Neutral and ground?

Yes

 

[timselectric]

Can I ground the sub-panel box to the ground in the Main panel

You already are.

I plan to run Ground, Load, and Neutral to a 60amp breaker in the house main street panel.

 

[timselectric]

I also have a long grounding screw that came with the panel, do I need to install that? I think that bonds the ground and neutral together?

Do not
You should Install a separate ground bar.

 

[Adam De Lay]

I'm following Will Prowse's instructions to setup a 48v EG4 6500EX solar/battery system. I have 2 x 6500EX's on the wall, and a sub-panel.

Current plan is to move individual circuits from the main street panel, to the sub panel to run off the inverters, with no connection between the sub-panel to the main street panel.

What's different is that I'm adding an A/C IN for the EG4's so that I can charge the batteries from the street, as well as solar. I plan to run Ground, Load, and Neutral to a 60amp breaker in the house main street panel.

My question is on wiring the 6500EX's A/C OUT to the sub-panel. In Wills video, he shows that you can tie neutral and ground on the same bus bar, but said there were exceptions for grid tie, but I didn't see where he elaborated on that. I think mine still counts as off-grid, but wanted to get peoples thoughts.

1. For what I described, does this still hold true, or should I separate out Neutral and ground?
2. Can I ground the sub-panel box to the ground in the Main panel, or do I need to run to the grounding rod? From what I see in the house main street panel, they tie ground and neutral together in there, so that had me questioning things.
3. I also have a long grounding screw that came with the panel, do I need to install that? I think that bonds the ground and neutral together?

Here are some pictures to give context. Sorry if I missed any key details you need to help. Let me know and I'll try to get the info to you.

View attachment 193725
View attachment 193726

Nice install. I'll just "ditto" what @timselectric said.

You'll want to make sure your inverters are on the latest firmware and set option 42 to ENA which disabled the G/N relay inside the inverters and creates a common neutral (utilizing the G/N bond from the AC IN connection).

I've also seen recommendations from EG4 that you should add the G/N relay screws back inside the inverters (if you removed them or they didn't come with them) as they are utilized for more than just the G/N relay inside the inverter.

 

[Jared123]

You already are.

So me running ground from the 6500ex AC In to the house main panel is enough to ground the sub panel as well?

Nice install. I'll just "ditto" what @timselectric said.

You'll want to make sure your inverters are on the latest firmware and set option 42 to ENA which disabled the G/N relay inside the inverters and creates a common neutral (utilizing the G/N bond from the AC IN connection).

I've also seen recommendations from EG4 that you should add the G/N relay screws back inside the inverters (if you removed them or they didn't come with them) as they are utilized for more than just the G/N relay inside the inverter.

Thanks. I'll plan to update the inverters, haven't gotten to the point of powering them on yet.

I haven't removed any screws from the 6500. I haven't heard about this. So you're saying I need to find and make sure there is a bonding screw inside the inverter?

 

[Adam De Lay]

Thanks. I'll plan to update the inverters, haven't gotten to the point of powering them on yet.

I haven't removed any screws from the 6500. I haven't heard about this. So you're saying I need to find and make sure there is a bonding screw inside the inverter?

Yes. There was a period of time where they were shipped without the G/N bond relay screw inside the inverter. In fact, to my knowledge they never started adding them back in once they removed them. I wana say anything with a Mfg date of 10/22 and later probably has the screws removed (warranty sticker on the side of the unit).

Going from memory, you should be able to take a multi-meter, switch to continuity and see if there's continuity between the G and N of the AC Out side of the inverter terminals. You would test this when the inverter is off. If there is continuity, then the screw is installed. If there's no continuity, then there's no screw in the inverter. Test them both.

 

[timselectric]

So me running ground from the 6500ex AC In to the house main panel is enough to ground the sub panel as well?

Yes

 

[John.DS99]

I have brought this notion up before such as "If my NO GRID TIE system uses the ground that comes from the Main panel of my house, and that ground is connected to the panel I am putting together and that panel is only used for solar that I generate, (keep going) and I may or may not use AC from the main panel as the AC input that supports my solar system which is simply DIY hardware that is commonly discussed.

And whatever needs to be explained, the question boils down to "Am I creating a Main Panel for my new solar power system as part of my system, or does it become a sub panel?"

If the answer is questionable, stand back and watch people disagree or agree. In a DIY forum like this, the answers are usually very good.

When everyone says the same thing and disagreements are few, it is time to accept the quality of that information. In other words, for a DIY web based solar discussion forum, you need to accept good advice and move on. DIY means there are few rewards/penalties for good or bad information, so those who have real knowlege tend to stand out and there are good reasons to implement their recommendations (as a rule).

I believe the grounding vs main vs sub panels has been discussed so many times that if you just look at the archives, you will see this info is present, and discussed many times repeatedly.

 

[Jared123]

So I determined that mine is missing the bonding screw, does anyone know what size screw I need?

 

[Adam De Lay]

So I determined that mine is missing the bonding screw, does anyone know what size screw I need?

For the 6500s any M3, 8mm long screw will work for the bonding screw.

 

[EG4_Jared]

So I determined that mine is missing the bonding screw, does anyone know what size screw I need?

If you are not able to find these, feel free to DM me and I will see what I can do to get this shipped out.

 

[Jared123]

I found the screws and got them installed thank you. However, the next hurdle, updating the firmware. The cable that Signature Solar sent me to do the firmware update on the 6500 is a flat RJ45 to USB cable with a RS232 label. The ReflashTool just hangs at "com3 was opened". I let it sit for about 5 minutes, with nothing happening beyond that. I did verify that com3 was the right com port. Thoughts?

 

[EG4_Jared]

I found the screws and got them installed thank you. However, the next hurdle, updating the firmware. The cable that Signature Solar sent me to do the firmware update on the 6500 is a flat RJ45 to USB cable with a RS232 label. The ReflashTool just hangs at "com3 was opened". I let it sit for about 5 minutes, with nothing happening beyond that. I did verify that com3 was the right com port. Thoughts?

That sounds like the EG4LL battery update cable. Would you be able to post a picture of both ends to verify?

 

[Jared123]

I have the picture of one of the ends, I can get the other end later. Am I using the wrong cable for this then?

 

[EG4_Jared]

Looks to be the wrong cable. The firmware update cable would be a two part cable with pins 4 and 5 connecting to the inverter or the flat one that looks like this:

 

[Jared123]

So is this the right cable to buy to do this then? Kind of wish these cables were better labeled to make it clear what their use is. I have another cable that came with it, but it only has two wire connector, I had tried this with the same result. I'll get more pictures tonight.

EG4 RS232 Firmware Update Cable - LL

Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL

signaturesolar.com

 

[EG4_Jared]

That looks to be an older version of the EG4 read/write cable based on the green tip of the USB. If you could DM, I will see what I can do to get the firmware update cable shipped to you.

 

[Jared123]

So still working on the firmware update issue. However I have more issues.

When charging from the grid, AC in, the batteries don't charge. I left it running for a week and it didn't charge the batteries at all. Granted I was only letting it run from one inverter. It was suggested that I need to have two inverters to charge the battery from grid, is this right?

Another problem, when I turn on the second inverter, it gives me an alarm with code 61. I have the communication cables connected to the first inverter, the one I was using to charge them. I also have the black and red wires, as well as the DB9 connectors between the two inverters. I can't figure out what is wrong with it, I'm hoping that a firmware upgrade will solve this.