Dead Well Pump

[Rednecktek]

What would the benefit be doing 120 vs leaving as 240v?

Easier to feed from an inverter since you can avoid having to deal with get ting 240v out of an inverter. Downside is double the amperage through the same wires that may not handle the load.

Fortunately pulling the pump is going to pull all the wire out for inspection so you may end up replacing it all anyways.

 

[Steve_S]

I have to highly recommend the GrundFos SQ Series of Pumps.

My Well is 280' deep, 6" Casing & Bore. That water is pushed to a 50 Gallon Pressure in the Pumphouse and from there another 75' to house.
Water Pressure Max is set to 52 psi. Pump kicks on at 40 PSI (roughly I forget the exact).
The Pump starts at 550W and stages up to 1200W by the time it reaches 52PSI Cutoff.

The pump is a 120V SQ-5 Soft-Start model. It has worked flawlessly and you really never feel the pressure difference as the pump cycles. It's also quite easy on the solar system & inverter as there is no Surge Demands.

GrundFos maybe on the more expensive side but you are indeed getting what you pay for and it will last a couple of decades at least.

REF: https://product-selection.grundfos.com/ca/products/sq-north-america?tab=products

 

[ChrisG]

I have to highly recommend the GrundFos SQ Series of Pumps.

My Well is 280' deep, 6" Casing & Bore. That water is pushed to a 50 Gallon Pressure in the Pumphouse and from there another 75' to house.
Water Pressure Max is set to 52 psi. Pump kicks on at 40 PSI (roughly I forget the exact).
The Pump starts at 550W and stages up to 1200W by the time it reaches 52PSI Cutoff.

The pump is a 120V SQ-5 Soft-Start model. It has worked flawlessly and you really never feel the pressure difference as the pump cycles. It's also quite easy on the solar system & inverter as there is no Surge Demands.

GrundFos maybe on the more expensive side but you are indeed getting what you pay for and it will last a couple of decades at least.

REF: https://product-selection.grundfos.com/ca/products/sq-north-america?tab=products

@Steve_S,
Do you know if the actual flow rate is higher than rated on Grundfos? I calculated 10.8 GPM at the pressure tank (gallons of water output divided by time it takes well to charge up from 40 to 60psi x 60) when well was working. Well had a 25 GPM yield based year 1985 calculations. Wonder if I need a 10-SQ or 15-SQ?

 

[OzSolar]

Here's the quick reference for the SQ Series. I don't see where you've mentioned your static water level.

Looks like the 10SQ will deliver 15 GPM up to 160' of head and the 15SQ will deliver 19 GPM up to 180' of head.

Edit: There's a mind boggling variety of models within each family. EG: I think there's at least seven 15SQ models.

FWIW: Anything much less than 15 gpm will suffer some pretty serious pressure drops inside the house when you are already watering the garden.

 

[Steve_S]

@Steve_S,
Do you know if the actual flow rate is higher than rated on Grundfos? I calculated 10.8 GPM at the pressure tank (gallons of water output divided by time it takes well to charge up from 40 to 60psi x 60) when well was working. Well had a 25 GPM yield based year 1985 calculations. Wonder if I need a 10-SQ or 15-SQ?

Sorry I forget what the flow rate was when I had the well drilled but it was quite high. Now when I had the well done I chose to have a Cable Pounder drill instead of a Bore Drill because I am on Banded Granite and the cable drill fractures the rock as it goes down improving the flow rate at higher levels unlike Bore Drills which would have had to be an extra 25% deeper and Well Drilling costs by the foot. My Well guy has both types of drills and it was his recommendation that saved me thousands of $. We tried a couple of time to actually drain my well and we couldn't, even with the truck mounted pump.

 

[v_green57]

Easier to feed from an inverter since you can avoid having to deal with get ting 240v out of an inverter. Downside is double the amperage through the same wires that may not handle the load.

Fortunately pulling the pump is going to pull all the wire out for inspection so you may end up replacing it all anyways.

Which would be a good thing as the images look like regular old stranded was used.

Somebody tried to go cheap.

 

[ChrisG]

Here's the quick reference for the SQ Series. I don't see where you've mentioned your static water level.

Looks like the 10SQ will deliver 15 GPM up to 160' of head and the 15SQ will deliver 19 GPM up to 180' of head.

Edit: There's a mind boggling variety of models within each family. EG: I think there's at least seven 15SQ models.

FWIW: Anything much less than 15 gpm will suffer some pretty serious pressure drops inside the house when you are already watering the garden.

@OzSolar
Called permit office today as well as original installer and both had specs from install from 1985. It was a 10gpm 1/2HP pump with 140ft head. Looks like 10 SQ would work or lower end 15 SQ, just need to understand the differences within each category. Time to breakout some excel spreadsheet work. Thanks for the info.

 

[Farm Boy]

My well pump is close to 35 yrs old. It is 220v. It is hooked to the same wire as your pictures and is down 125' in the casing. It is hooked to a 115amp 220v breaker and runs fine with a growatt spf 6k mpv/dmv inverter with 3 eg4 life power batteries. I am using all 3 wires in my isolated off grid panel. all three wires to the panel are insulated.

 

[ChrisG]

My well pump is close to 35 yrs old. It is 220v. It is hooked to the same wire as your pictures and is down 125' in the casing. It is hooked to a 115amp 220v breaker and runs fine with a growatt spf 6k mpv/dmv inverter with 3 eg4 life power batteries. I am using all 3 wires in my isolated off grid panel. all three wires to the panel are insulated.

Wow. 115amp for the pump? Mine is on a 20a double pole.

 

[Rednecktek]

I really hope that was a typo and he meant 15a which is what mine is on.

 

[Farm Boy]

it was on a 20 amp and I changed to a 15 amp double, yes not 115- ha ha.

 

[ChrisG]

Well pump specs figured out. Need the Grundfos 10 SQ07-240 which is a 3/4 HP pump. Seems more than I need for a 100 ft well but need to factor in friction loss and 60 PSI tank pressure which adds the total head calculation. The generator sizing, or inverter for my needs, is just amazing on these pumps. Yes they are double the price of a HomeDepot $500 pump but the money you save in generator/inverter needs is substantial. Aqua Science has the best deal on these at $1080.

 

[ChrisG]

I’m littetly pumped. My Grundfos 10 sq is going in this weekend pending adverse weather. My well is the only 240v load in my critical loads panel which means some complexity for the inverters I want (Victron Quattro). Wondering if I should have a dedicated 240v inverter for well and a Quattro 120v for the rest of my loads and not even worry about split phase config.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Hard call. Personally, I would lean towards AT vs. a second inverter, particularly since it's an SQ, and you don't need any surge, BUT I totally get your point on redundancy. It's why I have two Quattro in split phase.

Rather than a second big inverter, what about a ~$400 ~3000W WZRELB HF inverter as backup? I have a 24V/2000W unit that was my starter system that I can wire in as yet another layer of backup.

There's also the $450 120/240W Predator 3850W generator option...

I love Victron, but they are hard on the wallet, and I'm a cheap cheap bastid.

 

[farmhand]

Why not go with a dc pump?

 

[ChrisG]

Hard call. Personally, I would lean towards AT vs. a second inverter, particularly since it's an SQ, and you don't need any surge, BUT I totally get your point on redundancy. It's why I have two Quattro in split phase.

Rather than a second big inverter, what about a ~$400 ~3000W WZRELB HF inverter as backup? I have a 24V/2000W unit that was my starter system that I can wire in as yet another layer of backup.

There's also the $450 120/240W Predator 3850W generator option...

I love Victron, but they are hard on the wallet, and I'm a cheap cheap bastid.

@sunshine_eggo
I’ve been flip flopping on what to setup for a while now but the SQ will open up new avenues for sure. Can’t wait to measure inrush and compare to the 35amps it needs now to start. Didn’t even think of using a HF inverter now. I’m cheap-ish but just want the system to work for the family in the event I’m not around.

When you say lean to AT, do you mean a Quattro with step up? Great idea on HF backup if needed.

 

[ChrisG]

Why not go with a dc pump?

Too late. Not rerunning lines out too well. Need it to get to the 60psi in pressure tank also. This was the cheapest and easiest solution.

 

[Farm Boy]

You have many options that are not complicated to do. My first inverter a Growatt spf dmv/mpv 6k split phase. I run my 220v water pump with it with never an issue. using the same twisted 3 wire it had 30 yrs ago. I did change out the tank with a 52 gal so it don't kick on as much. I changed out my water heater tank 220v with a tank-less water heater requiring 110V and propane to run it. I run many other circuits using 3 LP 48V batteries. Conserve where you can and add loads on sunny days, so you can take advantage of the power of the sun other wise that power is wasted with off grid operation. On a sunny day, I can turn on my 24000btu mini split heat pump pulling approx. 41 amps with good sun and runs till the sun go's down with charges batteries. The harder that inverter is run the more efficient it becomes.

 

[JeepHammer]

Bought a cabin 2 years ago and sellers did not provide accurate well information, neither did inspector. Anyway got to cabin this weekend to open it up and no water. Decided to lift cover off head area for the first time and found this mess. Obviously electrical needs to be redone to code. Well pump must be dead or broken wire in well as there is 240v AC in the crap junction box but not running. Of course in hindsight I’m kicking my own butt not getting the well head looked at specifically prior to purchase.

When I was evaluating solar for this 240v pump last year, it measured 34.5a surge and 7a run at the panel breaker with 11.5 GPM flow at pressure tank (40/60). I gave up on an inverter due to the surge but now things may change.

Just going to rip this out and redo with Gundfos 10 SQ05 240v which should allow me to start on an inverter or at least a small 240v generator. Any other pumps I should look at or just bite the bullet on the SQ? Looks like many have had success with Grundfos. View attachment 135707
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I run Gundfos pumps (bronze body) because the well driller said they don't often fail, and when they do they are rebuildable. He didn't sell pumps, didn't have a dog in the fight, so I did as he recommended.

He's been correct for 25 years. I picked up spare pumps when I found didn't them on closeouts, and rebuild kits, there is always a spare wired, plumbed and ready to go, and I have about 10 rebuild kits I found for cheap on the internet.

I have two water wells, and we are entirely off grid, so self reliance is is important. Redundancy is important also. Both have Gundfos now.

Can't tell you how to do your's since I don't know your situation. I have a fairly large PV mini-grid, and when I upgraded the battery voltage I started watching for DC pumps instead of AC pumps.

My way of thinking, Direct use of DC being more efficient and DC motors being stronger for size...

 

[ChrisG]

I run Gundfos pumps (bronze body) because the well driller said they don't often fail, and when they do they are rebuildable. He didn't sell pumps, didn't have a dog in the fight, so I did as he recommended.

He's been correct for 25 years. I picked up spare pumps when I found didn't them on closeouts, and rebuild kits, there is always a spare wired, plumbed and ready to go, and I have about 10 rebuild kits I found for cheap on the internet.

I have two water wells, and we are entirely off grid, so self reliance is is important. Redundancy is important also. Both have Gundfos now.

Can't tell you how to do your's since I don't know your situation. I have a fairly large PV mini-grid, and when I upgraded the battery voltage I started watching for DC pumps instead of AC pumps.

My way of thinking, Direct use of DC being more efficient and DC motors being stronger for size...

I already have a Grundfos 10 SQ07 going in, hopefully this weekend. Next is figuring out the inverter to run this 240v pump and 120v circuits from my critical loads panel that is complete. My inverter options are much more open with the Grundfos going in. Still need split phase output but won't need to worry about a massive surge any longer. This system will be left unattended about 20 days per month so going for reliability like Victron/Schneider/Samlex.