Do We Need a Control Group?

[klystron]

Out of curiosity...do you have a degree from a 4 year university in any field?

Academic credentials are often given more importance than they deserve. In my own experience I have found quite often that engineers with impressive academic credentials are less capable in the real world than many techs with only an associate degree. Your advanced education only means that you should be capable of something, it doesn't mean that you are.

So, what really matters are your accomplishments. List those if you want to impress people who know better.

 

[brb58]

Academic credentials are often given more importance than they deserve. In my own experience I have found quite often that engineers with impressive academic credentials are less capable in the real world than many techs with only an associate degree. Your advanced education only means that you should be capable of something, it doesn't mean that you are.

So, what really matters are your accomplishments. List those if you want to impress people who know better.

LOL...I I am guessing you are technician with an associate degree.

 

[Hedges]

Often technicians have "ground truth" that new grads lack.
Engineering education teaches design and analysis techniques that are usually not known to technicians. This includes stability analysis, frequency domain, EMI, etc. which are necessary to design good products.

That said, engineers newly graduated from a university, or from an "eminent unaccredited institution" are often put on an assignment to make the new model Better Faster Cheaper, and it is anything but.

My university education was sufficient for me to catch some such errors. But it is an uphill battle to convince anyone those things need to be fixed.

Engineers, Doctors, all professional fields, and auto repair - the majority of practitioners are at best technicians, maybe just operators. They are trained to turn a screw until the needle is in the middle. Only a few are actually skilled in the art. Businesses make money by turning the crank and shuffling customers/patients/products through.

 

[LeoThomson]

Hedges, it is one thing to have questions, it is an entirely other thing to promote "unproven medications" I have questions myself, but I am not going to listen to a "Bob from the internet" to give me medical advise

 

[bradbill]

I am the CTO and CFO of an engineering company. I can't count how many techs we fired because they had this chip on their shoulder and thought they knew more than the engineers. For some strange reason, most of them were trained in the Navy.

 

[klystron]

I am the CTO and CFO of an engineering company.

Anyone who has read your posts in this forum would not believe you. If you look objectively at your typical responses and how juvenile they typically are, you would have to agree. That same statement applies to a few others here who try to present themselves as accomplished professionals.

 

[bradbill]

Anyone who has read your posts in this forum would not believe you. If you look objectively at your typical responses and how juvenile they typically are, you would have to agree. That same statement applies to a few others here who try to present themselves as accomplished professionals.

LOL....so I am right? You are a freaking technician?

So...supposedly you joined November of 2022...what other screen name do you use here?

 

[Hedges]

Some places, immunization has to be performed under armed guard.

Pakistan launches anti-polio drive targeting 44M children

Pakistan on Sunday launched its first anti-polio campaign of the year, targeting 44.2 million children under the age of five. Pakistan and Afghanistan are the only two countries in the world where polio continues to threaten the health and well-being of children. Polio affects the nervous...

news.yahoo.com

On a slightly different topic,
Can't we distribute polio vaccinations shots to these countries?
The oral "weakened, not killed" vaccine is effective in preventing polio, but the vaccine does paralyze some victims.
In the U.S. we switched from oral to injection when harm/benefit ratio crossed over.

 

[Hedges]

Hedges, it is one thing to have questions, it is an entirely other thing to promote "unproven medications" I have questions myself, but I am not going to listen to a "Bob from the internet" to give me medical advise

I agree, can't rely on quack recommendations.

What do you think of the meta-study linked here?

Do We Need a Control Group?

The analysis I link to below demonstrates ONE of the ways a study or data analysis can go wrong. If data isn't analyze by stratifying the data, it may obscure a serious risk ... you can see by the chart below how much difference it makes in analyzing myocarditis data if you fail to stratify...

diysolarforum.com

In particular the following

https://c19ivm.org/plot/ibpall.png

Interesting in particular the relative positions of Aspirin, and Remdesvir. And Ivermectin.

 

[klystron]

LOL....so I am right? You are a freaking technician?

Let's see if you can guess. Here are some clues for you:

Primary engineer on control and power circuit design for high frequency switch-mode resonant inverters at ratings up to 100 kW [requiring compliance with FCC and later CE regulations for conducted and radiated RF emissions]. Did this for many years with evolving design requirements as power semiconductor technology advanced.

Embedded microcontroller designs for switch-mode inverters - primary software and hardware engineer

Countless technical articles published in trade magazines as well as technical presentations to engineering staff at many of the largest companies in the US and abroad, including aerospace, petrochemical, consumer, and industrial product companies.

CEO of a company in a multi-national group for the last 30 years of my career, including electrical and mechanical engineering responsibilities.

If you have an implanted electrical device in your body, chances are that it was made possible in part by a machine that I designed [and built the proof-of-concept prototype] for a company making an integral part used in all electrical implantable devices.

My exposure to 'engineers-by-degree-only' over the course of my career has been extensive. So many of them were unable to function in the practical world - their designs were too expensive, impractical, prone to failure, or just plain didn't work, and they needed help with the simplest concepts. If you have any real experience other than working behind a desk shuffling papers you will have met some too.

Now, let me take a guess on your situation based on your writing style and juvenile behavior: your position is the result of working for a small company likely owned by relatives.

 

[bradbill]

Let's see if you can guess. Here are some clues for you:

Primary engineer on control and power circuit design for high frequency switch-mode resonant inverters at ratings up to 100 kW [requiring compliance with FCC and later CE regulations for conducted and radiated RF emissions]. Did this for many years with evolving design requirements as power semiconductor technology advanced.

Embedded microcontroller designs for switch-mode inverters - primary software and hardware engineer

Countless technical articles published in trade magazines as well as technical presentations to engineering staff at many of the largest companies in the US and abroad, including aerospace, petrochemical, consumer, and industrial product companies.

CEO of a company in a multi-national group for the last 30 years of my career, including electrical and mechanical engineering responsibilities.

If you have an implanted electrical device in your body, chances are that it was made possible in part by a machine that I designed [and built the proof-of-concept prototype] for a company making an integral part used in all electrical implantable devices.

My exposure to 'engineers-by-degree-only' over the course of my career has been extensive. So many of them were unable to function in the practical world - their designs were too expensive, impractical, prone to failure, or just plain didn't work, and they needed help with the simplest concepts. If you have any real experience other than working behind a desk shuffling papers you will have met some too.

Now, let me take a guess on your situation based on your writing style and juvenile behavior: your position is the result of working for a small company likely owned by relatives.

You would be wrong!

It is a small company...that's the only thing you got right.

 

[LeoThomson]

What do you think of the meta-study linked here?

Like most people here, I don't have the expertise to check those studies or look for the ones they might have been missed out. But we can check what the company which makes ivermectin has on their website.

Merck Statement on Ivermectin use During the COVID-19 Pandemic - Merck.com

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of...

www.merck.com

The "Big Pharma is suppressing this wonderful treatment" conspiracy theory is hilarious. Merck is a Pig Pharma company who makes ivermectin, sadly they have had no luck developing/producing a COVID vaccine and they would have liked seeing some of the money going to Pfizer, Moderna, etc. ending up in their pockets instead. But, in real life, we get Merck issuing "don't use ivermectin for anything except for actual worm infestations" statement.

Sadly in my experience logic rarely stops "believers" especially those who are older and have invested a lot of emotional energy into believing, to change their minds. It doesn't matter if it is global warming, religion, flat earth, GMO's, or covid treatment. That does not mean scientists always get things right, but the part I like about the scientific method is that it (eventually) corrects itself. And that is the reason I will take the advise of experts over the advise of the Bob's of this world. I don't care for hype or politicians inserting themselves into something that should not be political, so early on in the pandemic I listened to a NZ doctor, Ashley Bloomfield, who did the daily press briefings, the Prime minister who was present, let him do the talking without political interference.

Don't get me wrong, I do think Bob believes he is helping people by spreading the message, but the message is irresponsible and will lead to preventable deaths if followed. Right now the best thing we can do is get vaccinated, it is not perfect and there will be better remedies found. And even though it is unlikely, maybe one of those remedies is ivermectin. Just let the experts do their thing.

 

[D71]

There is a very good chance your doctor does not know anything about immunology, or the reports of Covid vaccine effectiveness from the field. He is just obedient, "treating" patients the way he is told to.
Most of them operate as no more than a technician or operator, who looks at a needle on an instrument and turns a screw until the needle is in the correct place.

I've been reading as much as I could find about effectiveness of the vaccine. It appears to cause a boost in immunity for a short while, like weeks. Much of the data says it wanes rapidly, sometimes even to negative effectiveness. I expect the proper scientific approach to document correcting the data for "confounding variable", but mostly I see hand-waving arguments from pro-vax publications trying to say effectiveness is not actually negative.

Pretty close to accurate. I paid out of my own pocket for an exam by an ophthalmologist, inquiring about an eye problem, which she could visually observe. I asked if it could be caused by Avalox. She said "No." I asked if it could be caused by UV. She said, "No." I asked what caused it. She said "Stress." I asked what kind of stress. She said "Emotional Stress." In other words, she thought I needed a shrink, not an eye doctor.

I went home and googled Avalox Retina. First thing that popped up was a veterinary study.
Excessive dose of Avalox caused retina damage in cats.
Correct dose of Avalox plus UV exposure caused retina damage in cats.
Exactly my suspicion, due to what I felt having taken a course of Avalox antibiotic and then sat in meeting rooms where InFocus projectors were used. The sensitivity (eye discomfort) remained for months.

At least, I remembered "cats", but I saved an article that says "mice". Am I due for memory care?

https://sci-hub.ru/10.1007/s002040100263

Yes, I do learn more from reading articles on the internet than from visiting specialists.

Black Box warnings including retina damage were added to Avalox later.
Previously, their only concern was excessive prescription could cause development of resistant strains.

I agree.
There is no way the vast majority of doctors know about covid-19 treatments. They are merely "parroting what the AMA and their malpractice insurance related coverage states they can say. That is why they strictly follow the American Medical Association guidelines for Compliance and coverage otherwise insurance might not cover them, more likely to get sued, and lose their medical "PRACTICE.'' Cdc and rest are advisers too.
Most Doctors like Lawyers are merely "practicing."
In this day and age doctors are covering their ass and grabbing the money. Hospital are most definitely bribed and inclined to name covid account of the additional govt monies. Why would the govt do that? If ppl die from covid they can get buried by the govt - foots the bill unless have pre-arranged plan in place then no coverage by govt. the free burial is only applicable if doctor notes it as cause of death ....

if you read the CDC And all govt websites then you most likely know about as much as your local doctors. The doctors and whom ever are giving shots are still required to provide all warnings and problems that can happen before administering and shots - medicine. Most are not doing that.... so ppl taking vaccines are making an uninformed decision by omission from the doctors - care givers.

there are also components within the vaccines that are - were not being put out in the open so an informed decision could be made.
THIS IS CRIMINAL Action in this video she with held vital decision making info from patients. How does a person un-vaccinate if lied to or information is with held?

 

[D71]

Like most people here, I don't have the expertise to check those studies or look for the ones they might have been missed out. But we can check what the company which makes ivermectin has on their website.

Merck Statement on Ivermectin use During the COVID-19 Pandemic - Merck.com

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of...

www.merck.com

The "Big Pharma is suppressing this wonderful treatment" conspiracy theory is hilarious. Merck is a Pig Pharma company who makes ivermectin, sadly they have had no luck developing/producing a COVID vaccine and they would have liked seeing some of the money going to Pfizer, Moderna, etc. ending up in their pockets instead. But, in real life, we get Merck issuing "don't use ivermectin for anything except for actual worm infestations" statement.

Sadly in my experience logic rarely stops "believers" especially those who are older and have invested a lot of emotional energy into believing, to change their minds. It doesn't matter if it is global warming, religion, flat earth, GMO's, or covid treatment. That does not mean scientists always get things right, but the part I like about the scientific method is that it (eventually) corrects itself. And that is the reason I will take the advise of experts over the advise of the Bob's of this world. I don't care for hype or politicians inserting themselves into something that should not be political, so early on in the pandemic I listened to a NZ doctor, Ashley Bloomfield, who did the daily press briefings, the Prime minister who was present, let him do the talking without political interference.

Don't get me wrong, I do think Bob believes he is helping people by spreading the message, but the message is irresponsible and will lead to preventable deaths if followed. Right now the best thing we can do is get vaccinated, it is not perfect and there will be better remedies found. And even though it is unlikely, maybe one of those remedies is ivermectin. Just let the experts do their thing.

Since Trump Admin forced the govt agencies to authorize the vaccine then it is highly unlikely it was properly tested and emergency use authorization is not proven treatment it is emergency use with you taking all the risk. Ppl are taking an experimental drug. The long term effects are unknown. If you took the vaccine then by all means grab some cheese account you are now the human lab rat. I was given a lot of shots in the military and won't ever do that again. The Adenovirus vaccine was only given to Military and several versions were made pulled and released made over pulled released same thing for years ..... lab rats. No telling what it did to us - Military. I know everyone that took it in our groups got extremely sick. NO CIVILIANS WERE GIVEN THIS SHOT VACCINE.

I will not be a lab rat again. It is already admitted the current vaccine for covid is no more effective then the previous. The variants are changing so you can take shots from now until dooms day with no more effect then taking a guessed and out dated flu vaccine.

make it so the vaccine medical pharma can be sued then might consider it. They can take a shit in it now and there would be nothing you can do.... see previous post above for pfizer video

 

[Bob B]

The discussion of excess deaths is beginning to overwhelm the government spokesmen.
My guess is that once they can no longer ignore the issue they will probably try to blame it on long Covid .... and throw in a little climate change.

What's interesting to me is the places around the world who don't have excess deaths ... Like South Africa.
All the place with the highest excess deaths are the most highly vaccinated countries.
We are going to need the unvaccinated control group to get to the bottom of this.
I don't think they can keep pushing to eliminate that group much longer.... but I don't see any sign of it letting up yet .... they are still extending their emergency powers even though the only emergency we have is the people dropping dead from getting more and more boosters.

 

[Bob B]

The FDA and CDC advisory groups are starting to get a little nervous and are starting to do some CYA.

FDA vaccine advisers 'disappointed' and 'angry' that early data about new Covid-19 booster shot wasn't presented for review last year | CNN

Some vaccine advisers to the federal government say they're "disappointed" and "angry" that government scientists and the pharmaceutical company Moderna didn't present a set of infection data on the company's new Covid-19 booster during meetings last year when the advisers discussed whether the...

www.cnn.com

 

[D71]

The discussion of excess deaths is beginning to overwhelm the government spokesmen.
My guess is that once they can no longer ignore the issue they will probably try to blame it on long Covid .... and throw in a little climate change.

What's interesting to me is the places around the world who don't have excess deaths ... Like South Africa.
All the place with the highest excess deaths are the most highly vaccinated countries.
We are going to need the unvaccinated control group to get to the bottom of this.
I don't think they can keep pushing to eliminate that group much longer.... but I don't see any sign of it letting up yet .... they are still extending their emergency powers even though the only emergency we have is the people dropping dead from getting more and more boosters.

I agree. The biggest opponents you might see are the ppl that took the vaccines. Who likes to admit to a mistake??? Pride and ego out weighs all else .... especially a life and death error in judgement. I just hope - the vaccinated remember who lied to them or did not tell them the potential KNOWN hazards of their decisions To get the vaccines. An accurate transfer of side effects and such were not always given.

1 of my brothers died with covid he had all the required shots at the time. My other brother died with covid un vaccinated. Both had UNTREATED SEPSIS. THE SEPSIS WAS DIAGNOSED IN BOTH brothers. Several months later the medical professionals are all saying SEPSIS AWARENESS MONTH so doctors and medical staff are aware it can be treated. Both brothers gone. Failure to treat the Sepsis both marked died with Covid. Cases closed. I regret not insisting upon autopsy for both.

cousin took johnson vax died with clots .... started in legs. No previous diagnosis' for clots... death was also sepsis - clots .... not related to shot. That is how it works unless Doctors push it to VAERS to make a CONNECTED ADVERSE report. Again VAERS has to get the reports. VAERS IS APPARENTLY NOT WORKING PROPERLY. 3 family members gone.

I had Covid did not go to hospital. I was not strapped to a bed and dehydrated until needed kidney dialysis.... The VA hospitals were once the killing fields for vets. I avoid hospitals and doctors. Sick ppl go to doctors. If you go there for a check up or whatever then potentially exposed to sickness disease .... Doctors use to be more specialized.....and remote .... now they want ppl to gather in the HUGE MEDICAL MALLS.

So the more the Govt pushes ANYTHING the more I will resist until I decide.... It is my body my choice. I am all for abortions too. Look at how many potential criminals if allowed to grow up would have grown up to rob murder give vaccines whatever. Instead they have been turned into cosmetics and such. Even put the abortions in the Pfizer vaccine.... look at the video link above in another post. Imagine what and why a vaccine would need an aborted baby part in it.
WTF else is in there... no liability for the Big Pharma.... someone might have shit in it.

 

[Bob B]

Have you noticed the WHO is still TRYING to scare the crap out of us .... They are calling the XBB variant THE KRAKEN ..... better watch out, the Kraken is coming for you .... it might give you a runny nose.
It is beyond embarrassing that an organization supposedly responsible for ... world health ... is such a joke.
We need to disassemble these crazed organizations and start over with something that isn't controlled by China and Bill Gates.

 

[LeoThomson]

There is a very good chance your doctor does not know anything about immunology, or the reports of Covid vaccine effectiveness from the field. He is just obedient, "treating" patients the way he is told to.

Isn't that the case for most professions? Following best practices (which have been tested over time) seems like a good idea to me.

 

[Hedges]

That is my point, most "professionals" are just parroting what they are told. They have virtually no comprehension of what they are doing or looking at.

... wait! It gets better! (worse?) ...

True story:

A Post Doctoral Fellow arrived at a world-renowned research hospital.
He worked on a research project, and periodically took note of the readings on an instrument connected to an anesthetized rabbit.
What he didn't understand was that the rabbit was deceased, and the readings were random fluctuations of instrument electronics, not the vital signs of a living animal.

That was a Post Doctoral Fellow. A "Doctor".

Now imagine someone who is part of one of the major business sectors of the United States.
Due to the impending doom of Covid, all the normal revenue-producing procedures have been canceled.
But, there is hope on the horizon! Recognizing the grave threat facing the nation, Congress has authorized payments to hospitals for every Covid patient treated. Every Covid patient placed in the ICU. Every Covid patients intubated and put on a respirator.


Let me put it this way ... for at least a year, there were ZERO cases of flu in the United States.

 

[LeoThomson]

Let me put it this way ... for at least a year, there were ZERO cases of flu in the United States.

Link?

 

[Hedges]

Link?

At the following link, view graphs starting with 2017 going through 2022.

Public Health Laboratory Virologic Age Surveillance

gis.cdc.gov

The seasons 2017-2018 and 2018-2019 have normal hump peaking at some thousands.
Season 2019-2020, about week 12, flu was brought to a screeching halt week 12.
Season 2020-2021, there was essentially no flu.
Season 2021-2022, back to business as usual.

In other words, once the orders came down from on high to code all such ailments as the highly profitable "Covid", flu (all its current circulating variants) were instantly eradicated.

The "Professionals" in the medical field were neither professional nor honest.
Or, they simply had no competence.

Isn't that the case for most professions? Following best practices (which have been tested over time) seems like a good idea to me.

Which is exactly what they did
(except, treatment for Covid had hardly been "tested over time", and had a pretty consistent track record. So they kept on treating with the same protocol time after time. The financial results were guaranteed.)

Of course, "Do no harm."
The industry which manufactures flu vaccine was suffering.
So we were told, "Get your Flu shot as well as your Covid shot. Think how bad it would be if you contracted both simultaneously!"

 

[Bob B]

Florida Governor DeSantis is signaling he will NOT sign an extension of the law that gives hospitals a Covid liability shield. It is due to expire in Florida near the end of June.
It will be VERY interesting to see how this affects how hospitals treat Covid patients.

 

[LeoThomson]

In other words, once the orders came down from on high to code all such ailments as the highly profitable "Covid", flu (all its current circulating variants) were instantly eradicated.

Even your own link shows it was not eradicated, a far more likely explanation was that it was severely reduced thanks to social distancing.

Burden of Influenza

Learn about how CDC estimates the burden of seasonal influenza in the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

The profit motive is always interesting, but it surprises me that this, traditionally communist, mantra has made so many appearances recently in right wing USA.

 

[LeoThomson]

Florida Governor DeSantis is signaling he will NOT sign an extension of the law that gives hospitals a Covid liability shield. It is due to expire in Florida near the end of June.
It will be VERY interesting to see how this affects how hospitals treat Covid patients.

I had to google this one, suing healthcare providers seems alien to me, but in the US suing seems to be part of the culture so it is not totally unsurprisingly. It seems New York did that a year ago and if we want to continue on the "profit motive", it was mostly republicans who protected the health care companies from lawsuits.

Covid-19 Shield Laws Proliferate Even as Liability Suits Do Not

Businesses soon will have broad protection from Covid-19 liability lawsuits in 30 states, covering more than half the U.S. population—an unusually speedy expansion of a legislative idea birthed just over a year ago in the pandemic’s early days.

news.bloomberglaw.com

It will be interesting to see if hospitals start treating covid patients with ivermectin. (and if they do, I wonder how much the families of the deceased will get if they sue.)