Eg4 6000xp will’s set up question

[iowachap]

Question i was looking at Wills set up diagram for the eg4 6000xp 48v home off grid set up. I am used to seeing solar positive with a inline fuse, but im neeb snd been a couple years since i did my hand truck set up, now im stepping up with the 6000xp with the eg4 14.3kwh big battery and wanted to he sure. Do we or dont need solar line fuse, i have 10 of the 88 dolar hyundai 305 watt panels from signature solar.

I didnt realize how damn heavy that battery is, lol i barely got it up 5 steps onto coceted front porch with help. Its heavier than big safe. So other question is would it be ok if i had the 6000xp sbout 12 feet away from battery installed on 2nd floor in our unfinished attic we are finishing out. Or would it he better to install it on the battery and run the power cable to the breaker box upstairs? Either way will be paying for copper wire to go upstairs because no way in heck i going to try to move that battery up stairs lol. I am going to build a nice enclosure for battery to mount on front porch and then run wire up wall with nice cover if conduit is required.

Our front porch is covered, not enclosed or conditioned.

If i run just the battery cables upstairs to eg6000xp would they need metal conduit?

I am looking to run a eg4 ductless mini upstairs off this to help condition the unfinished space while we working to put in insulation etc. figure free power to condition the space while we work would help. ? plus if grid starts to have scheduled shutdowns we have an emergency power for fridge and heat/cooling.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Samsonite801]

A fuse/breaker is always to protect the wire and connectors in a circuit from overcurrent. If you're running a single string, you may have 10a of maximum potential Isc current, so technically you don't need a fuse (with normal 10 awg PV cable), but if you wanted to put one, it should be rated for the wire gauge.

I suppose a lightning strike could potentially induce overcurrent on the PV wires, but a lightning strike will also overvolt it, so if you were going that far, you may also want to look at installing PV wire surge protector for overvolt protection as well.

 

[Samsonite801]

On your second question, I'd rather not have the battery in a hot attic. It's usually more optimal to run the higher voltage of the 2 options the longer distance and save money with smaller awg cable less voltage drop.

Just use a voltage drop calculator to confirm proper gauge wire run, and run the AC feed farther to the breaker box if you want, since it is the higher voltage.

Toy around with my favorite voltage drop calculator here (NEC recommends to keep voltage drop under 3% for feeders or branches, and under 5% for both feeders and branches combined, but lower numbers than that still mean better performance with less loss):

Voltage Drop Calculator

This free voltage drop calculator estimates the voltage drop of an electrical circuit based on the wire size, distance, and anticipated load current.

www.calculator.net

 

[iowachap]

@Samsonite801

Thanks for reply and info. Ok good to know, i have 10 panels 305 watts each and will determine if splitting them to run on both the mppt of the eg4 6000xp.

As for battery yeah no way am i taking that eg4 powerpro battery up steps, if i leave on my covered porch i would like to mount the 6000xp on top and then just run the cable upstairs to the breaker box which neing that 6000xp would sit on top of the battery it might be like 12 feet fron the battery/inverter/solar charge control. I dont have a garage and rather not bring them into the house. My other option is to build a small shed off back of house that could house everything. I have recently installed a ductless mini in the newly finished area upstairs so i could run the cable from the 6000xp up wall and through eave into the unfinished area next to an already installed 100 amp panel. My goal is to get the new finished out attic to be ran off solar.

What id like to do is run a eg4 24k ductless mini innthe unfinished portion to help keep that space somewhat comfortable while doing work to finish, since it would be running off solar i wouldnt care about the consumption.

 

[Samsonite801]

@Samsonite801

Thanks for reply and info. Ok good to know, i have 10 panels 305 watts each and will determine if splitting them to run on both the mppt of the eg4 6000xp.

As for battery yeah no way am i taking that eg4 powerpro battery up steps, if i leave on my covered porch i would like to mount the 6000xp on top and then just run the cable upstairs to the breaker box which neing that 6000xp would sit on top of the battery it might be like 12 feet fron the battery/inverter/solar charge control. I dont have a garage and rather not bring them into the house. My other option is to build a small shed off back of house that could house everything. I have recently installed a ductless mini in the newly finished area upstairs so i could run the cable from the 6000xp up wall and through eave into the unfinished area next to an already installed 100 amp panel. My goal is to get the new finished out attic to be ran off solar.

What id like to do is run a eg4 24k ductless mini innthe unfinished portion to help keep that space somewhat comfortable while doing work to finish, since it would be running off solar i wouldnt care about the consumption.

Also to note, you can't charge on lithium batteries below freezing, so it cannot be too cold either. So whatever solution / location you come up with, figure that the battery needs to be in a place where the temperature can be controlled somewhat. Mini-split and insulated compartment would be good, but until you get the climate control solution going, it may be a problem if battery is exposed to freezing temperatures.

 

[JAS]

Also to note, you can't charge on lithium batteries below freezing, so it cannot be too cold either

I believe the OP is using the PowerPro battery and that has built-in heaters

 

[Samsonite801]

I believe the OP is using the PowerPro battery and that has built-in heaters

Ahh, good point, I missed that... (thanks for bringing that to attn)

Still doesn't hurt to build an insulated box around it, so the built-in heater can run at lower duty cycle and not drain so much off the battery to keep itself warm..

 

[iowachap]

Also to note, you can't charge on lithium batteries below freezing, so it cannot be too cold either. So whatever solution / location you come up with, figure that the battery needs to be in a place where the temperature can be controlled somewhat. Mini-split and insulated compartment would be good, but until you get the climate control solution going, it may be a problem if battery is exposed to freezing temperatures.

Yep why i got the eg4 powerpro well that and the price for the capacity couldnt be topped. But now im thinking maybe i should have got the 48v server rack ones lol they be easier to move. But think i be good i just need to test everything and then can determine more perm location.

 

[iowachap]

Ahh, good point, I missed that... (thanks for bringing that to attn)

Still doesn't hurt to build an insulated box around it, so the built-in heater can run at lower duty cycle and not drain so much off the battery to keep itself warm..

Indeed if i do leave on covered porch i will make a nice looking deco cover with foam insulation, and have it where can be vents so in summer it wont get way too hot. Im kind of thinking after testing to get a decent little shed to put behind house close enough that it can run the wire to fuse box upstairs. Put the battery, the eg46000 in the shed, with a little extra room for expanding another eg4 power pro and eg6000xp . I know it will cost a bit for the cable to run from shed to upstairs but probably best solution as i dont have a garage.

 

[Samsonite801]

Yep why i got the eg4 powerpro well that and the price for the capacity couldnt be topped. But now im thinking maybe i should have got the 48v server rack ones lol they be easier to move. But think i be good i just need to test everything and then can determine more perm location.

You might also try using a normal handcart/dolly (the bigger diameter wheels are best) with your own favorite holddown straps. I always strap stuff super tight to a dolly with a couple straps so it doesn't budge, and go slow backwards, and I can go upstairs with super heavy loads and everything (usually hehe). With straps you can affix the load to the dolly the skinny way and it won't fall off (sideways)..

Sometimes it can help to have another person on the bottomside to help on steps if the load is too heavy to do by one person. Can do a test on the first step just to see how it feels.

My Stepdad even has this funky dolly that has 6 wheels on it (3 wheels on each side in a triangle pivot mechanism), and wow that thing takes steps like you're on flat ground... I used it to move something big upstairs at my parent's place and it was super smooth..

I am fine just using a normal dolly though since thats what I've got. Just make sure the tires are pumped up good and both sides have the same pressure...

That's fine if you still don't want to try for the steps, but was just throwing it out there, that's all...

 

[Magellan]

I'm looking into the weather/temperature aspects with the 6000XP for myself, right now. I don't think it's rated for outdoors, and the manual gives an operating temperature of 32 to 113. So, the 6000XP on top of the PowerPro battery "on the porch" may be problematic. Curious what others think?..

 

[Samsonite801]

I'm looking into the weather/temperature aspects with the 6000XP for myself, right now. I don't think it's rated for outdoors, and the manual gives an operating temperature of 32 to 113. So, the 6000XP on top of the PowerPro battery "on the porch" may be problematic. Curious what others think?..

Search the 6000XP manual for something like an 'IP-xx' number, see if you can find something there.

More info:

Ingress Protection (IP) ratings

The IEC has developed the ingress protection (IP) ratings, which grade the resistance of an enclosure against the intrusion of dust or liquids

www.iec.ch

IP Ratings Explained | Ingress Protection Rating | IP Codes | Updated 2022

An IP rating is a way of showing the effectiveness of electrical enclosures in blocking foreign bodies such as dust, moisture, liquids, and accidental contact (2022).

clarionuk.com

 

[Magellan]

Found it, IP-20 (for 6000XP). So, 20 is pretty much a no for outdoors...

 

[zanydroid]

Yep, the IP20 rating is (in my headcanon) part of the savings that EG4 passes onto you, relative to the 18kpv (which is IP6-something).

An easy install, potentially, is to put it on the opposite side of a wall from the PowerPro.

 

[iowachap]

Very

You might also try using a normal handcart/dolly (the bigger diameter wheels are best) with your own favorite holddown straps. I always strap stuff super tight to a dolly with a couple straps so it doesn't budge, and go slow backwards, and I can go upstairs with super heavy loads and everything (usually hehe). With straps you can affix the load to the dolly the skinny way and it won't fall off (sideways)..

Sometimes it can help to have another person on the bottomside to help on steps if the load is too heavy to do by one person. Can do a test on the first step just to see how it feels.

My Stepdad even has this funky dolly that has 6 wheels on it (3 wheels on each side in a triangle pivot mechanism), and wow that thing takes steps like you're on flat ground... I used it to move something big upstairs at my parent's place and it was super smooth..

I am fine just using a normal dolly though since thats what I've got. Just make sure the tires are pumped up good and both sides have the same pressure...

That's fine if you still don't want to try for the steps, but was just throwing it out there, that's all...

that looks awesome, i used the appliance dolly from harbor freight but it didnt help much, as easy as it was to pull up it was just as easy to slid down the steps as it has the stair rubber track. I think what all dollys hand trucks should have is a darn hand break, so if you dont want the wherls to roll in our case back down the step hold the hand break to stop tire movement. Plus for safety if one is under lifting up you def dont want it to start rolling down it can become dangerous.

Ok so i built a temp free stand wall to mount my 6000xp on i still need to add the breaker box.

So the ground neutral bond if we run this off grid with no utility power from grid we will enable the 6000xp ground neutral bond? Then remove ground neutral bond in breaker box? I saw will say be sure to debond ground neutral in breaker box but he had 2 eg4 6000xp paralleded. I only have 1 right now, and right now its not going to have grid connected.

 

[Samsonite801]

Very

that looks awesome, i used the appliance dolly from harbor freight but it didnt help much, as easy as it was to pull up it was just as easy to slid down the steps as it has the stair rubber track. I think what all dollys hand trucks should have is a darn hand break, so if you dont want the wherls to roll in our case back down the step hold the hand break to stop tire movement. Plus for safety if one is under lifting up you def dont want it to start rolling down it can become dangerous.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of the appliance dollys due to small tire diameter (and hard tires). For stairs I always prefer the dolly with the 10-inch air-filled tires so you have some suspension if heading downstairs direction (but that's just me I suppose)..

Ok so i built a temp free stand wall to mount my 6000xp on i still need to add the breaker box.

Looking great so far!

So the ground neutral bond if we run this off grid with no utility power from grid we will enable the 6000xp ground neutral bond? Then remove ground neutral bond in breaker box? I saw will say be sure to debond ground neutral in breaker box but he had 2 eg4 6000xp paralleded. I only have 1 right now, and right now its not going to have grid connected.

I have read into the 6000XP enough yet to know the N-G bonding behavior of it. It is however the off-grid inverter (not the grid-tie model like an 18kpv for example), so it likely has the N-G provided while inverter is on only, so maybe read up on what the bond behavior is during bypass mode, and make sure if you provide a generator to the input, that you know whether that has an N-G bond or not.

There are lots of threads here on proper grounding and N-G bonding, just to know that you only want one N-G bond at a time (NEC says as close to the power source/service entrance as possible), so not too hard to check and make sure you only have the one at any given time (or circumstance), whether it be in inverting mode vs bypass mode.

 

[DIYPV]

Setting 26 allows you to disable the N-G bonding.

 

[Samsonite801]

Setting 26 allows you to disable the N-G bonding.

 

[Samsonite801]

 

[iowachap]

View attachment 191266

Yep saw that and the video from eg4

So if i have no grid power hooked up and i have a breaker panel hooked up from 6000xp i want N-G bond enabled so that the 6000xp has neutral ground bond and then in breaker box be sure to add parts to separate neutral ground bond? Because the bond is in the 6000xp?

Then later if i hook up the grid ac input to ghe 6000xp for bypass i will disable the N-G bond in the 6000xp and for the breaker box keep N-G bond separated? Because the main grid box carries the N-G bond?