EG4-6500EX-48 Issue

[NVCYberPro]

@Zwy @w8dev Thanks for all the input - I haven't had yet had the opportunity to try this. As mentioned chasing the flicker or having the flicker issue at at opportune time is also a timing issue. Sometimes it is there, sometimes it is not, but when I sit down to dinner and the dining room lights are flashing not just flickering I chose to turn them off and didn't chase the problem. Most of my lights have not been converted to LED, only a few, is this a more common problem with regular or LED lights or is it all the same? In some cases it seems that turning on another light will reduce or sometimes stop the flickering (sometimes flashing) of the other lights. It's like if I increase the load, we get better results. I know that on a sunny day my batteries will actually charge faster or reach full charge faster when my house is producing a load. Observations are if my batteries are 95 - 96 % charged and I have 3.5 - 4.0 kW available on the solar and 350-400 watts in house load that the batteries will hold that level and the PV input will drop. In these situations if I plug in a space heater or heat gun and add 1200 - 1800 watts of load the PV input goes up, the fans kick in hard and the batteries will reach 100% rather quickly. Just strange things I notice, not knowing if these are normal.

Does anyone have any suggestions on the PV issue while I wait for SS? looks like I have a cloudy week in the forecast and I really need to capture all the solar energy that I can.

Thank you

 

[Adam De Lay]

Can you tell me what the firmware version is of your inverters? I see you did update per SS on 3/1, just curious what version you updated to. Can't keep track of what versions were released at what time.

 

[NVCYberPro]

7963 61.12 Residential

 

[Adam De Lay]

7963 61.12 Residential

Thanks.

Unfortunately doesn't make much sense to me. Looks like you tried switching between PV1 and 2 and had the same issues.

Did you share what your panel specs are for your array? If you did, I can't seem to find them (sorry, cup of coffee is still more full than empty currently...)

 

[Zapper77]

.

The flicker can get so bad it's basically a strobe.

 

[NVCYberPro]

The firmware version shows U1: 79 & 63 and U2: 61 & 12

I have a single string of 10 SolarEver 410 watt panels in series (noted below). They are on a temporary ground mount, they are connected by a 131' 8 AWG wire fed through a IMO DC Disconnect switch and into the EG4. (I have been advised that I can safely add two more panels to the string to help on cloudy days, we do see temps of 40 below and 50 below are not unheard of but I haven't experienced those yet)

My original plans call for adding another matching string to the other PV input this spring, and the end goal to add a second 6500 in split phase with another similar PV string along with and additional 2-3 EGV-LL batteries. Plans are obviously on hold while we work through this.

Just a few minutes ago, my wife told me that we were pulling in 218 watts and the batteries were discharging and @ 42%, she flipped the disconnect switch and now we are bringing in 918 watts and the batteries are charging.

 

[NVCYberPro]

The flicker can get so bad it's basically a strobe.

Very true

 

[Adam De Lay]

The firmware version shows U1: 79 & 63 and U2: 61 & 12

I have a single string of 10 SolarEver 410 watt panels in series (noted below). They are on a temporary ground mount, they are connected by a 131' 8 AWG wire fed through a IMO DC Disconnect switch and into the EG4. (I have been advised that I can safely add two more panels to the string to help on cloudy days, we do see temps of 40 below and 50 below are not unheard of but I haven't experienced those yet)

My original plans call for adding another matching string to the other PV input this spring, and the end goal to add a second 6500 in split phase with another similar PV string along with and additional 2-3 EGV-LL batteries. Plans are obviously on hold while we work through this.

Just a few minutes ago, my wife told me that we were pulling in 218 watts and the batteries were discharging and @ 42%, she flipped the disconnect switch and now we are bringing in 918 watts and the batteries are charging.

Thanks for those details. You're well within spec of PV. I was only wondering if somehow the inverter was clipping the PV because it was being over-paneled, but obviously that's not the case.

Disconnecting the PV or restarting the inverter just cycles the MPPT, so that would explain why it starts working again.

Honestly I've been grasping at straws, but it bothers me not knowing (I'm sure not nearly as much as you and your wife though... :D).
- Have you noticed any discernable pattern in timing?
- Does it seem to be a problem as soon as the MPPT first starts in the morning or does it seem to be a few hours into the morning?
- Do you find that you only have to cycle the MPPT once a day or is it multiple times a day?

I know James mentioned in the other thread he's thinking it's the IV curve, but unfortunately that doesn't mean a whole lot to me without doing more research.

 

[NVCYberPro]

Thanks for those details. You're well within spec of PV. I was only wondering if somehow the inverter was clipping the PV because it was being over-paneled, but obviously that's not the case.

Disconnecting the PV or restarting the inverter just cycles the MPPT, so that would explain why it starts working again.

Honestly I've been grasping at straws, but it bothers me not knowing (I'm sure not nearly as much as you and your wife though... :D).
- Have you noticed any discernable pattern in timing?
- Does it seem to be a problem as soon as the MPPT first starts in the morning or does it seem to be a few hours into the morning?
- Do you find that you only have to cycle the MPPT once a day or is it multiple times a day?

I know James mentioned in the other thread he's thinking it's the IV curve, but unfortunately that doesn't mean a whole lot to me without doing more research.

What is the IV curve? what thread is that?

As far as the timing goes, it is repeatable most every morning (99.9/100). Since we no longer trust the system, after we reset the system in the morning we have also decided to check it later in the day. After a while you can look at the sky / sun and know what your power should be. When it seems out of kilter we have tried resets and have seen gains 4/6 times there as well. The issue seems to be getting worse, but maybe I am just more watchful now that I know there is an issue?

 

[Adam De Lay]

What is the IV curve? what thread is that?

Had to google it myself: https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/blog/i-v-characteristic-curves.html

EG4-6500 losing clock and MPPT issues

I’ll have to look and see if mine are still drifting, but I don’t have the EG4 batteries and was experiencing the drifting.

diysolarforum.com

It actually looks like there was a 3rd forum post regarding this issue, but some of the content was moved into the 2nd one.

EG4 6500 - stuck low PV voltage

Hello! I have 2x inverters, (running split phase). 3 strings of 340W panels, 2x strings of 7 panels and one of 6 panels. Inverter 1 is receiving a 7 panel input and 6 panel input. Inverter 2 just receives a 7 panel input. Inverter 1 will almost always have panel voltage above 90v. Inverter 2...

diysolarforum.com

Unfortunately if SS says it's a "known issue" and they're working on it, there must be some software glitch that happens in certain scenarios which tells the MPPT to ramp down.
- Doesn't seem to have anything to do with split phase or not cause you only have 1 unit, the other 2 users have split phase.
- It doesn't seem to have to do with the communication (setting 5 - EG4) to the battery because you had the same problem even after changing to USE mode.
- Panel configuration is within spec, and it's not isolated to just a single MPPT board in the unit.

Sorry I'm not able to be of much more help.

Is there any chance you could set up a camera to record the display of the inverter before sunrise (before PV starts coming in) and record the PV power? You would want to make sure your backlight doesn't turn off and your screen doesn't reset back to the main page.
I'm curious if you would be able to see a visible drop in the power production or if you might hear some kind of click/cycling coming from the inverter just prior to it "capping/clipping" the PV.

 

[donb108]

On the flickering lights issue, sounds like some of the lights might like utility power better than inverter power; I wonder if there's a sine wave or power factor issue happening. If one of the plugged in loads has a low power factor, it may be bouncing reactive power to other parts of the circuit. The only loads you would probably notice it on are things with lights. Not sure how to solve it, but might be worth looking into.

 

[NVCYberPro]

@w8dev I do not have a way of monitoring the system with a camera, I checked it this morning and it was at 0 watts then the next time I checked it it was at 43 watts so I missed that window.

In response to the time of day or multiple times a day. Today I thought I would ride out the storm and not touch the PV switch, it took quite a while for the system to begin charging and after waiting awhile the input power crept up to over 1 kw, so I thought great, maybe today we don't have to reset it! Unfortunately we checked it about 20 minutes ago and it had dropped to 658 w and we flipped the switch and instantly it returned to 1.23kw. Currently pulling in over 3kw.

Trying to patiently await a fix, not confident that a firmware upgrade will fix the issue, I am concerned I may have a faulty unit.

 

[Adam De Lay]

@w8dev I do not have a way of monitoring the system with a camera, I checked it this morning and it was at 0 watts then the next time I checked it it was at 43 watts so I missed that window.

No worries. I wasn't thinking of anything fancy. Even just pointing a phone camera on it and letting the video record. Unfortunately there's still no guarantee that it would reveal anything.

Trying to patiently await a fix, not confident that a firmware upgrade will fix the issue, I am concerned I may have a faulty unit.

I would be inclined to make the same assumption. I believe I've only seen 3 of these reported issues. If it was a firmware issue I would think it would be much more widespread. Really hoping SS steps up and gets this resolved quickly for you.

 

[mountkay]

I’m glad to know I’m not alone with this PV issue.

@NVCYberPro can you check the voltage on your PV input before you disconnect and reconnect it? Mine hovers at 90v before disconnecting and reconnecting. After the reset, voltage jumps to ~200v range.

does yours “fix” itself in cases of high sunlight? Once the sun is strong enough, mine starts functioning as it should.

Thanks for updating to the latest firmware so I didn’t have to do it lol. I didn’t think updating my firmware would help since it didn’t seem like an issue that was specifically addressed.

I’ll leave my video here again as reference

Also @SignatureSolarJames / @BenFromSignatureSolar, maybe you want to take a look at this thread. You suggested I update firmware, and also to get matching firmware on my units. Appears that it’s still possible to have this issue even with updated firmware and with a single unit.

@w8dev thank you for following along with this issue and helping compile the different cases of it happening as well as looking at different factors trying to troubleshoot the issue.

I did come across one other user with this issue that wasn’t already mentioned in this thread. I’ll post it below

Signature Solar Customer Support and EG4 6000EX inverter issues

It has now been a month since I originally contacted Signature Solar about my issue with my inverter. I have had multiple issues, one of which was resolved with their latest firmware update, so that won't be discussed. The biggest issue anyway is the charge controller failing to produce what it...

diysolarforum.com

EDIT: actually just (Re)found this post by SSJames saying there will be a firmware update for this.
“the MPPT firmware is getting a revamp for the low voltage range as well, eta next week”
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/s...-eg4-6000ex-inverter-issues.56123/post-722823

Haha I had already liked that post some time ago, but I guess it didn’t sink in

 

[NVCYberPro]

I’m glad to know I’m not alone with this PV issue.

No your not.

@NVCYberPro can you check the voltage on your PV input before you disconnect and reconnect it? Mine hovers at 90v before disconnecting and reconnecting. After the reset, voltage jumps to ~200v range.

I will check that, I always watch the wattage of the PV input and the battery charge rate (or discharge).

Yes voltage 101 > 353

does yours “fix” itself in cases of high sunlight? Once the sun is strong enough, mine starts functioning as it should.

That is unclear, in the winter we have a lot of cloudy, partly cloudy and sunny days. When it's full sun and the fans are screaming and the unit is producing 3.58kw - 4.00 kw I do not have the need or a way of testing.

Thanks for updating to the latest firmware so I didn’t have to do it lol. I didn’t think updating my firmware would help since it didn’t seem like an issue that was specifically addressed.

I’ll leave my video here again as reference

Also @SignatureSolarJames / @BenFromSignatureSolar, maybe you want to take a look at this thread. You suggested I update firmware, and also to get matching firmware on my units. Appears that it’s still possible to have this issue even with updated firmware and with a single unit.

@w8dev thank you for following along with this issue and helping compile the different cases of it happening as well as looking at different factors trying to troubleshoot the issue.

I did come across one other user with this issue that wasn’t already mentioned in this thread. I’ll post it below

Signature Solar Customer Support and EG4 6000EX inverter issues

It has now been a month since I originally contacted Signature Solar about my issue with my inverter. I have had multiple issues, one of which was resolved with their latest firmware update, so that won't be discussed. The biggest issue anyway is the charge controller failing to produce what it...

diysolarforum.com

EDIT: actually just (Re)found this post by SSJames saying there will be a firmware update for this.
“the MPPT firmware is getting a revamp for the low voltage range as well, eta next week”
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/s...-eg4-6000ex-inverter-issues.56123/post-722823

Haha I had already liked that post some time ago, but I guess it didn’t sink in

The more I watch the EG4 the more odd things are noticed. In the video below watch the AC output - this is crazy.

https://www.lsbees.com/media/AC_OUTPUT.mp4

Also on Friday I received a call from SS and they wanted me to video the PV voltage on the input of the inverter and then reset the PV and to record the voltage difference.

What I discovered was that when using a multi-meter to measure the input voltage of the PV at the EG4 - that the input was very unstable as you can see in the video. I do not know, maybe this is normal? When I shut off the PV disconnect you can see a small amount of voltage at the PV input (must be coming from the EG4 itself), then when I check the voltage on the input side of the disconnect switch (in the off position) it reads a pretty solid 373V.

https://www.lsbees.com/media/PV_INPUT_VAR.mp4

 

[Adam De Lay]

What I discovered was that when using a multi-meter to measure the input voltage of the PV at the EG4 - that the input was very unstable as you can see in the video.

I would expect to see the voltage changing as the MPPT is searching for the proper power point, but not jumping from 334 to 116 that quickly and sporadically.

When I shut off the PV disconnect you can see a small amount of voltage at the PV input (must be coming from the EG4 itself)

You're correct, its voltage coming off the inverters.

 

[NVCYberPro]

I would expect to see the voltage changing as the MPPT is searching for the proper power point, but not jumping from 334 to 116 that quickly and sporadically.


You're correct, its voltage coming off the inverters.

What is your take on the AC output shot?

 

[Adam De Lay]

What is your take on the AC output shot?

This is coming from my limited understanding of these units, so take everything with a grain of salt.

From what I've seen from these inverters, the AC Out voltage is fixed to whatever value you have set as Option 10 (which you have set to 120). I don't know that I've ever seen voltage go above that value while in battery mode (in grid-bypass, yes but that's just passing through the AC IN voltage). The value will drop based on the voltage sag when turning items on, but it should level out and then come back up to the 120v.

Honestly, I can't tell if you have 2 different issues here between the AC Out and the PV or just one. @mountkay do you see the same AC Output problems, or just the PV issues?

 

[mountkay]

That is unclear, in the winter we have a lot of cloudy, partly cloudy and sunny days. When it's full sun and the fans are screaming and the unit is producing 3.58kw - 4.00 kw I do not have the need or a way of testing.

By “fix itself” I meant, increase the voltage property. If you are pulling 3.5Kw then you must be at a higher voltage than 100v. Otherwise you would be pulling crazy amps. But do you have to “reset” it to get it to pull this much in full sun? Or will it start pulling +3KW on its own?

I received a call from SS

Good to know they are looking into it.

What I discovered was that when using a multi-meter to measure the input voltage of the PV at the EG4 - that the input was very unstable

I didn’t think to check this. Very interesting. I also didn’t realize you could turn an IMO on like that with the cover off!!

do you see the same AC Output problems, or just the PV issues?

I have never seen the voltage on either of my split phase inverters be different than 120v or 119v. If I remember correctly, I think the only one that goes to 119v sometimes is the one with the PV issue.

Could this AC output voltage jumping around explain flickering / flashing lights? Seems like it would.

@NVCYberPro when did your order your inverter? And does it have a sticker on the side with a date? Mine was ordered 10/22. The sticker says 2022, with the 9 punched out. Not sure if this is manufactured date or what.

 

[Zwy]

No your not.

I will check that, I always watch the wattage of the PV input and the battery charge rate (or discharge).

Yes voltage 101 > 353




That is unclear, in the winter we have a lot of cloudy, partly cloudy and sunny days. When it's full sun and the fans are screaming and the unit is producing 3.58kw - 4.00 kw I do not have the need or a way of testing.


The more I watch the EG4 the more odd things are noticed. In the video below watch the AC output - this is crazy.

https://www.lsbees.com/media/AC_OUTPUT.mp4

It's not crazy, it is what happens if the ground reference is not at zero.

That is not an inverter problem but a systems problem. I know, I had one inverter that was doing exactly what you showed, output voltage would move from 112V to 126V and I had pulsing lights at the time.

I'm pretty certain my system has been corrected. I was experimenting and testing , step by step to observe various system behavior after reading thru all the problems you read about here. Most people blame the inverter, but in reality it is systems/design problem. I wanted to test a few things, see the results and then change the next thing and see results in the next tests. Part of the learning process and how to understand why you see the abnormalities.

How is this system bonded and how are the EGC's ran? Have any diagrams? One or a pair of inverters?

Also on Friday I received a call from SS and they wanted me to video the PV voltage on the input of the inverter and then reset the PV and to record the voltage difference.

What I discovered was that when using a multi-meter to measure the input voltage of the PV at the EG4 - that the input was very unstable as you can see in the video. I do not know, maybe this is normal?

The problem is holding the leads in your hands while moving around. The connection between the measuring point and your leads changes, this changes the resistance and you see the voltage change. If you want true readings, you need a solid connection such as a clamp end to ensure the connection remains constant.

When I shut off the PV disconnect you can see a small amount of voltage at the PV input (must be coming from the EG4 itself), then when I check the voltage on the input side of the disconnect switch (in the off position) it reads a pretty solid 373V.

Not unusual, Will even had a recent video about this.