EG4 6500EX Problem

[vitalssigns]

Ok, I’m going to ask a couple of questions because I do not know the answer to

Ok, back to work. Tomorrow I work half day .

them. 1) when I first started having issues with the inverters shutting down, why did the breaker on the battery shut off and the

Nader DC Circuit Breaker | 60V 200Amp with Enclosure​

Did not? 2) Since it did not shut off, what is the purpose of having the

Nader DC Circuit Breaker | 60V 200Amp with Enclosure?​

 

[42OhmsPA]

The battery breakers are 100a, the main battery bank breaker is 200a; that's why the battery would trip first.
Smelling smoke is not a good thing at all. Blowing fused and tripping breakers could be from the inrush current, maybe the breakers didn't trip the 2nd time because the capacitors had a charge from the first attempt.
I'm not being rude so please don't take it that way. I really think you should get someone onsite to help you diagnose what's going on. You mentioned your neighbor was a certified electrician, could they help?

I agree with @Quattrohead that you should use some sort of resistor to precharge the inverter capacitors. There should be a precharging sequence for the EG4 batteries I'm not familiar with it. As Hedges mentioned a lightbulb would work, a pencil sharpened on both ends would work. I use these with a wire pig tail on one end. YiePhiot 2PCS 50W 25 Ohm Resistor Aluminum Case Wirewound Chassis Mounted Compatible with Ring Doorbell, Nest Hello Doorbell, SkyBell Doorbell Etc https://a.co/d/h92ZlG9

It's to bad you weren't a lot closer I would glady help. I don't want to see anyone get hurt, or worse, and I can understand how frustrating it is not being able to utilize the system you've spent so much money on.

Edit - tagged the wrong user.

 

[vitalssigns]

The battery breakers are 100a, the main battery bank breaker is 200a; that's why the battery would trip first.
Smelling smoke is not a good thing at all. Blowing fused and tripping breakers could be from the inrush current, maybe the breakers didn't trip the 2nd time because the capacitors had a charge from the first attempt.
I'm not being rude so please don't take it that way. I really think you should get someone onsite to help you diagnose what's going on. You mentioned your neighbor was a certified electrician, could they help?

I agree with @Hedges that you should use some sort of resistor to precharge the inverter capacitors. There should be a precharging sequence for the EG4 batteries I'm not familiar with it. As Hedges mentioned a lightbulb would work, a pencil sharpened on both ends would work. I use these with a wire pig tail on one end. YiePhiot 2PCS 50W 25 Ohm Resistor Aluminum Case Wirewound Chassis Mounted Compatible with Ring Doorbell, Nest Hello Doorbell, SkyBell Doorbell Etc https://a.co/d/h92ZlG9

It's to bad you weren't a lot closer I would glady help. I don't want to see anyone get hurt, or worse, and I can understand how frustrating it is not being able to utilize the system you've spent so much money on.

I have been put the system together over the past year because it does add up and is expensive. The system has never supplied power to my house, I was just in the process of setting the inverters up so they would work together like they are designed to. With that said I will ride it out and figure it out with all of you help. Don’t worry about anyone getting hurt please, I know what electricity can do, and it does only take one mistake. I will talk with ya tomorrow and pick up where I left off. Thanks for all the help. Jeff

 

[OffGridForGood]

I agree with @Hedges that you should use some sort of resistor to precharge the inverter capacitors. There should be a precharging sequence for the EG4 batteries I'm not familiar with it. As Hedges mentioned a lightbulb would work, a pencil sharpened on both ends would work

Actually it was @Quattrohead 's comment (credit where credit is due!)

Also you should probably be using a precharge resistor, a regular 60 or 100 watt domestic light bulb is perfect for this as it will glow maybe half brightness at 48 volts and should slowly dim as the capacitors charge if there is no short circuit in the inverter.

And the light bulb is a great idea, since it will tell you (and us) if there is a short in one of the inverters/between them since the light bulb should slowly dim as the capacitors charge up, BUT IF THERE IS A SHORT the bulb will NOT DIM.

I am starting to wonder if the addition of the second inverter is where things went sideways - not set up/connected correctly creating a short circuit somewhere that was able to trip those Class T fuses - I find it hard to imagine the capacitor in-rush alone would be sufficient to blow those Class T fuses.

It has already been said, I will say I agree with this: disconnect everything from each inverter - start with one, leave the Class T fuse out of the circuit so you can put the light bulb across the gap. connect just the battery pos and neg - nothing else try the light bulb trick to see if it lights and dims. This would at least confirm no short in inverter #1, if all good, you can then install the class T and check inverter #1 will start up and display works.

Then repeat with inverter #2 Alone - just the inverter and again remove the Class T fuse to make a gap for the light bulb trick, battery pos battery neg attached to the inverter. light bulb trick again see if it lights then dims. If it doesn't dim there is a short somewhere, don't install the class T fuse, don't supply battery directly to the inverter - look for the short instead.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Actually it was @Quattrohead 's comment (credit where credit is due!)

Thanks for keeping me in line, I edited my post.
I think this may be a sign I'm in way to many threads and need to order more batteries and panels to keep my busy for a while ?

 

[OffGridForGood]

Definitely! - need more cells!, more PV panels! keep busy!! Me Too!

 

[vitalssigns]

The battery breakers are 100a, the main battery bank breaker is 200a; that's why the battery would trip first.
Smelling smoke is not a good thing at all. Blowing fused and tripping breakers could be from the inrush current, maybe the breakers didn't trip the 2nd time because the capacitors had a charge from the first attempt.
I'm not being rude so please don't take it that way. I really think you should get someone onsite to help you diagnose what's going on. You mentioned your neighbor was a certified electrician, could they help?

I agree with @Quattrohead that you should use some sort of resistor to precharge the inverter capacitors. There should be a precharging sequence for the EG4 batteries I'm not familiar with it. As Hedges mentioned a lightbulb would work, a pencil sharpened on both ends would work. I use these with a wire pig tail on one end. YiePhiot 2PCS 50W 25 Ohm Resistor Aluminum Case Wirewound Chassis Mounted Compatible with Ring Doorbell, Nest Hello Doorbell, SkyBell Doorbell Etc https://a.co/d/h92ZlG9

It's to bad you weren't a lot closer I would glady help. I don't want to see anyone get hurt, or worse, and I can understand how frustrating it is not being able to utilize the system you've spent so much money on.

Edit - tagged the wrong user.

I’m back pad off of work for the rest of the day, been doing some more diagnostics and nothing is making sense.

 

[vitalssigns]

Actually it was @Quattrohead 's comment (credit where credit is due!)

And the light bulb is a great idea, since it will tell you (and us) if there is a short in one of the inverters/between them since the light bulb should slowly dim as the capacitors charge up, BUT IF THERE IS A SHORT the bulb will NOT DIM.

I am starting to wonder if the addition of the second inverter is where things went sideways - not set up/connected correctly creating a short circuit somewhere that was able to trip those Class T fuses - I find it hard to imagine the capacitor in-rush alone would be sufficient to blow those Class T fuses.

It has already been said, I will say I agree with this: disconnect everything from each inverter - start with one, leave the Class T fuse out of the circuit so you can put the light bulb across the gap. connect just the battery pos and neg - nothing else try the light bulb trick to see if it lights and dims. This would at least confirm no short in inverter #1, if all good, you can then install the class T and check inverter #1 will start up and display works.

Then repeat with inverter #2 Alone - just the inverter and again remove the Class T fuse to make a gap for the light bulb trick, battery pos battery neg attached to the inverter. light bulb trick again see if it lights then dims. If it doesn't dim there is a short somewhere, don't install the class T fuse, don't supply battery directly to the inverter - look for the short

 

[sburcham]

Just out of curiosity how do you have your pv wired to and from the imo disconnect. A pv short can short out the dc bus and cause batteries to trip also. I learned this the hard way myself.

 

[vitalssigns]

Since the t class fuses did not make sense, one side had a reading and the other side did not, I flipped the fuse around, and the side that I could not get a reading on before start reading. The t class fusses are good.

Then I took the positive from the battery directly to the inverter , skipping the fuses, no reading. When I did this the top battery bums was green, but the 2 blow went to alarm showing red. If you remember when I started having problems, the bottom 2 went in to red and the breakers did not flip off, only the top battery breaker flipped off. Do you thin possibility the 2 lower batteries got damaged?

 

[vitalssigns]

Just out of curiosity how do you have your pv wired to and from the imo disconnect. A pv short can short out the dc bus and cause batteries to trip also. I learned this the hard way myself.

I only have at the moment 4kw Solar coming in on one line, so I pigtailed on the top and ran a line to each inverter on the bottom so I could set both inverters to run parallel. When I was done setting, 2P1 and 2P2, I did not switch the imo disconnect when I started turning on power from the batteries to the inverters

 

[42OhmsPA]

Since the t class fuses did not make sense, one side had a reading and the other side did not, I flipped the fuse around, and the side that I could not get a reading on before start reading. The t class fusses are good.

That's because the fuse is blown. It makes absolute sense. Have you ever dealt with a blown automotive fuse? Same concept with the class T. The fuses are bad.

Then I took the positive from the battery directly to the inverter , skipping the fuses, no reading. When I did this the top battery bums was green, but the 2 blow went to alarm showing red. If you remember when I started having problems, the bottom 2 went in to red and the breakers did not flip off, only the top battery breaker flipped off. Do you thin possibility the 2 lower batteries got damaged?

Did you attempt to pre-charge before connecting to the inverter? Did the inverters turn on? I don't think the batteries are bad but it's possible the BMS"s are damaged.

 

[sburcham]

I only have at the moment 4kw Solar coming in on one line, so I pigtailed on the top and ran a line to each inverter on the bottom so I could set both inverters to run parallel. When I was done setting, 2P1 and 2P2, I did not switch the imo disconnect when I started turning on power from the batteries to the inverter

At any point did you have both connected to the pv at the same time? By that I mean paralleling the one pv to both inverters.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I only have at the moment 4kw Solar coming in on one line, so I pigtailed on the top and ran a line to each inverter on the bottom so I could set both inverters to run parallel. When I was done setting, 2P1 and 2P2, I did not switch the imo disconnect when I started turning on power from the batteries to the inverters

Wait, your splitting the same string of solar panels to separate inverters?

 

[vitalssigns]

Wait, your splitting the same string of solar panels to separate inverters?

Yes, both inverter settings screens came on and parallel to together, and I have no issues.

 

[vitalssigns]

At any point did you have both connected to the pv at the same time? By that I mean paralleling the one pv to both inverters.

 

[vitalssigns]

Yes

 

[Quattrohead]

I have absolutely no clue what's going on here and I don't think you should be messing around with this. You are not listening to some basic diagnostic steps that I am providing, either listen or I'm done.

 

[vitalssigns]

That's because the fuse is blown. It makes absolute sense. Have you ever dealt with a blown automotive fuse? Same concept with the class T. The fuses are bad.

Did you attempt to pre-charge before connecting to the inverter? Did the inverters turn on? I don't think the batteries are bad but it's possible the BMS"s are damaged.

Remember, I never disconnected the IMO before pre-charging the batteries to the importer. That’s when the whole system went down.

 

[vitalssigns]

I have absolutely no clue what's going on here and I don't think you should be messing around with this. You are not listening to some basic diagnostic steps that I am providing, either listen or I'm done.