"Ford secures battery supplies for 600,000 EVs a year from 2023"

[Hedges]

Maybe 6 hours for a 500W window air conditioner I have, 3 miles or so Honda Civic.

The Tesla gets more miles because my Civic only converts some energy in the gasoline to mechanical, rest is discharged as heat. Which is nice in the winter. Tesla is only given electricity after any heat was discharged somewhere else (if fossil fuel generation.)
If I ran a good portable gas generator to recharge the Tesla, likely similar 3 miles on 0.1 gallon.
If a combined cycle power plant burned the fuel to generate electricity and used waste heat to run a steam turbine, might generate twice as much electricity and waste only 1/3 of the energy as heat.
If that plant also discharged hot water circulated to heat local buildings, then all the energy of the fuel would be used for something.

Combined heat and power at the home could be good. In the winter, exhaust heat from engine or fuel cell heats the house while electricity is generated. Summer, PV might supply 100%. Keeping natural gas piped to houses would make this more practical and clean, and maybe better than discharging waste heat at peaker plants. Small generator at the house, probably 2/3 of energy goes to heat. Combined cycle plant, maybe 1/3 as heat, so if located where heat could be used that would be good as well.

 

[73powerstroke]

The aliens are saying that we are idiots and they will "gift" us another tech thru Santa if we behave good enough!

Baghdad Battery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Myth of Ancient Nuclear War in India | Mystery of India

Is man on the threshold of a new world or merely stuck on a circular treadmill repeating the doomed lessons from history which he never seems to learn? A gr ...

www.mysteryofindia.com

?

This is the kind of stuff Iike to read about

 

[LittleLebowski]

Charging it would be a moot point. My trailer would crush that little truck with the pin weight it puts down, not to mention being several tons of weigh over the towing capacity. EV trucks and towing heavy for the comsumer (not transportations companies with deep pockets) is a pipe dream at this point in time.

Oh yeah, totally agreed on that as well.

 

[Miles B]

It's not the point. I dont care about milage. If I did I would ride a pedal bike. It's better for you . Most fat lazy Americans could use a lesson in being forced to exercise lol. If electric cars were affordable I would own one for fun.
The grid cannot support every one owning ev either. We just aren't there yet. But it's getting better. So I will stick to my diesel trucks and not get run over in Arizona driving a prius okay ?

The Bolt is like $26k brand new. There are now quite a few affordable models. Look beyond Tesla (who I HATE). The base F150 is going to be like $39k. I believe that's less than the price of the average new car sold in the USA.

The grid can support widespread EV use, and it can support total EV with very little work. We just need time of day charging control to smooth out the peaks. In fact, it would make generation more efficient by filling in the gaps in demand. This math has been done to death by various youtubers.

I have a bunch of trucks. From a 454 dually to a 6.5TD to a 55 F100 with a 302 and everything in between. I have a bunch of classic cars (like a LOT), every single one with an internal combustion V8. You know what I'm doing? Converting the dually to EV. It suits me. I don't go super long distances. If I did, I'd keep the 454 in it. But I don't. So I'll sell the 454 and the 4L80e and the spare 489 that I built to put in it, and the money I'll get will almost pay for the whole conversion. And then I'll never pay for fuel again because I also bought 13kW of solar panels to charge it. I love that truck. I love driving it. Everywhere. I drive it in peak hour traffic. I park it in the middle of the city. It's ridiculous and I adore it. But so are the fuel bills. Well, with a Dana crate commercial motor/inverter and 150kWh of Chinese LFP batteries, I will end up with more torque everywhere than the 454, and $0 in fuel or oil changes or trans fluid or spark plugs or air filters or plug wires ever again. Even if I was paying to charge it from the grid, the electric bill would be 8c per km instead of 38c per km. My dually will be THE greenest damn vehicle on the road. I will take pride in finding those EV only spaces and parking in them. With an extended cab long bed 4WD dually.

Are EVs perfect for replacing EVERY vehicle? No, there are still plenty of uses for trucks with dual tanks. Luckily I don't still need one. But EV trucks won't replace that usage - for a while. They are working on solid state batteries that will solve that problem. We have a startup over here converting prime movers to electric, with battery swap stations at the big truck stops. Fantastic idea. Drops the cost of freight - who doesn't love that?

But if you don't see the benefits of paying <25% of your current fuel bill, killing the world's reliance on countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia, and just getting rid of some of the damn smog, I'm sorry but you need to look harder. When we had lockdowns for like 2 weeks here, I had to drive to work one day for an emergency. I couldn't believe how different the city looked with all the cars not filling the air with shit. My drive to work actually looked different to usual. Things were different colours to usual. And coming over hills, I could see shit in the distance that I don't normally see. And we BREATHE that crap. Bring on EVs. I'm converting my dually and when they get denser batteries, I'll start converting some of my classics too. Electric is just better. This is coming from a guy who's been building engines and transmissions for cars and bikes most of my life. I will kiss them goodbye and never look back. The only thing I'll miss is the sound.

 

[Shimmy]

But where do you live? Gonna use that heat a lot here in Ohio. Goodbye 25-50% of your range.

I rarely have had to wait at a gas station, and even in the rare handful of times I did over the last 18 years it was still less time than an EV charge takes.

FWIW, 18 years x 52 fill-ups x 5 minutes = 3.25 days you have wasted at a gas station, plus any time spent driving to one. Charging my EV at home requires ~10 seconds to connect and another 10 to disconnect the charger. It is always full range before I leave. It charges while I am doing other stuff (like sleeping).

Heating is not a major range impact; they use heat pumps typically and that only takes a mile or two of range per hour IIRC.

Towing on a road trip today is not really viable with any frequency. Maybe in 2-3 years the situation will improve.

 

[Danke]

And after 10 years only pay over $10K for an new battery to be installed.

 

[Hedges]

For most drivers, and a quality EV, the issue is more likely one of calendar life not miles.

How Long Does a Tesla Battery Last? | Compare.com

Here’s everything you need to know about how long a Tesla battery lasts, including the warranty, and how much a replacement battery costs.

www.compare.com

Could take 20 to 40 years to reach cycle life.
Of course, this is for a car with 300 mile range, so you're buying a battery 5 times larger than needed for most daily use.

The cheap cars may (and have so far) had batteries which degraded in much fewer miles.
So buying cheap may not save money, and break even of EV vs. ICE may not be as soon as MSRP suggests.

 

[Shimmy]

And after 10 years only pay over $10K for an new battery to be installed.

Compared to death by a thousand cuts with a legacy vehicle, it is much more complicated than that. First off, batteries made today should last ~200-300k miles with at least 80% range, absolute minimum. There is a level of calendar aging as well, but that should not hit at 10 years, maybe as early as 12, but more likely 15.

But, more importantly, the life cycle maintenance cost is still significantly lower based on all studies performed to-date, even for cars used as taxis and racking up 200,000 miles and more.

 

[Danke]

 

[Danke]

If you can find a replacement batteries after a decade…

 

[73powerstroke]

The Bolt is like $26k brand new. There are now quite a few affordable models. Look beyond Tesla (who I HATE). The base F150 is going to be like $39k. I believe that's less than the price of the average new car sold in the USA.

The grid can support widespread EV use, and it can support total EV with very little work. We just need time of day charging control to smooth out the peaks. In fact, it would make generation more efficient by filling in the gaps in demand. This math has been done to death by various youtubers.

I have a bunch of trucks. From a 454 dually to a 6.5TD to a 55 F100 with a 302 and everything in between. I have a bunch of classic cars (like a LOT), every single one with an internal combustion V8. You know what I'm doing? Converting the dually to EV. It suits me. I don't go super long distances. If I did, I'd keep the 454 in it. But I don't. So I'll sell the 454 and the 4L80e and the spare 489 that I built to put in it, and the money I'll get will almost pay for the whole conversion. And then I'll never pay for fuel again because I also bought 13kW of solar panels to charge it. I love that truck. I love driving it. Everywhere. I drive it in peak hour traffic. I park it in the middle of the city. It's ridiculous and I adore it. But so are the fuel bills. Well, with a Dana crate commercial motor/inverter and 150kWh of Chinese LFP batteries, I will end up with more torque everywhere than the 454, and $0 in fuel or oil changes or trans fluid or spark plugs or air filters or plug wires ever again. Even if I was paying to charge it from the grid, the electric bill would be 8c per km instead of 38c per km. My dually will be THE greenest damn vehicle on the road. I will take pride in finding those EV only spaces and parking in them. With an extended cab long bed 4WD dually.

Are EVs perfect for replacing EVERY vehicle? No, there are still plenty of uses for trucks with dual tanks. Luckily I don't still need one. But EV trucks won't replace that usage - for a while. They are working on solid state batteries that will solve that problem. We have a startup over here converting prime movers to electric, with battery swap stations at the big truck stops. Fantastic idea. Drops the cost of freight - who doesn't love that?

But if you don't see the benefits of paying <25% of your current fuel bill, killing the world's reliance on countries like Saudi Arabia and Russia, and just getting rid of some of the damn smog, I'm sorry but you need to look harder. When we had lockdowns for like 2 weeks here, I had to drive to work one day for an emergency. I couldn't believe how different the city looked with all the cars not filling the air with shit. My drive to work actually looked different to usual. Things were different colours to usual. And coming over hills, I could see shit in the distance that I don't normally see. And we BREATHE that crap. Bring on EVs. I'm converting my dually and when they get denser batteries, I'll start converting some of my classics too. Electric is just better. This is coming from a guy who's been building engines and transmissions for cars and bikes most of my life. I will kiss them goodbye and never look back. The only thing I'll miss is the sound.

I don't know where you think that the grid can support everybody using electric vehicles that's just absolutely nonsense.
You obviously have more money and time than most. for you it's no big deal. for the rest of us we have to work and struggle. I cannot afford $26000 for anything. I also don't use gas trucks. Diesel is more expensive but more efficient. I'm using a shoe string budget to run the ac in my house with my 14 used solar panels, taking a load off the grid so someone can charge their ev lol

 

[Danke]

I don't know where you think that the grid can support everybody using electric vehicles that's just absolutely nonsense.
You obviously have more money and time than most. for you it's no big deal. for the rest of us we have to work and struggle. I cannot afford $26000 for anything. I also don't use gas trucks. Diesel is more expensive but more efficient. I'm using a shoe string budget to run the ac in my house with my 14 used solar panels, taking a load off the grid so someone can charge their ev lol

It’s over $28,000 base price. If you can find a dealer that has such a model and will sell any EV at MSRP right now.

Add a few options, and well over $30K. The F-150 lightening easy approaches $100K for what most truck owners want is such a status symbol.

 

[time2roll]

There are used EVs as long as the buyer is in the used market under $26,000 anyway.

https://www.carvana.com/cars/nissan-leaf

 

[Ampster]

I don't know where you think that the grid can support everybody using electric vehicles that's just absolutely nonsense.

I know your question was directed at @Miles B but I will try to answer your question because I see plenty of capacity on the grid during a 24 hour period. The existing problem of grid capacity is typically from 5PM until 10PM. Clearly if EV growth did happen fast and all those drivers wanted to charge from 5PM to 10PM then it would be a problem. I own two EVs and I never charge at those times because the rates are too high. One of the compelling aspects of driving an EV is the lower cost per mile for fuel. I suspect that is compelling for many other EV drivers that I have spoken to, so to me it seems unlikely that they would all charge at the most expensive time of day. Most EVs and charging stations have schedules so an EV owner can come home at 6PM and plug in their EV and it will be scheduled to charge when rates are lower. I charge either from my solar panels or a super off peak rates from midnite until Noon, when there is plenty of capacity. As noted above EV growth like most auto sales is limited by the availability of chips so I am not concerned about too many EVs choking the grid in the next few years.

 

[73powerstroke]

I know your question was directed at @Miles B but I will try to answer your question because I see plenty of capacity on the grid during a 24 hour period. The existing problem of grid capacity is typically from 5PM until 10PM. Clearly if EV growth did happen fast and all those drivers wanted to charge from 5PM to 10PM then it would be a problem. I own two EVs and I never charge at those times because the rates are too high. I charge either from my solar panels or a super off peak rates from midnite until Noon, when there is plenty of capacity. As noted above EV growth like most auto sales is limited by the availability of chips so I am not concerned about too many EVs choking the grid in the next few years.

Yes I'm aware of this. Unfortunately that's how it is. People come home and plug in.
We have seen the highest grid usage in history this year in Arizona. They are planning to do rolling black outs. But go buy a ev they said.

 

[73powerstroke]

There are used EVs as long as the buyer is in the used market under $26,000 anyway.

https://www.carvana.com/cars/nissan-leaf

I drove a Nissan Leaf before what a turd

 

[luckielab]

Yes I'm aware of this. Unfortunately that's how it is. People come home and plug in.

Many home charges are “smart”. People come home, plug in, and charging doesn’t start until super late night/early morning when grid demand is at the lowest.

Do AZ utilities not have TOU rate plans, where consumers pay more for electricity during the evening hours when demand is the highest? Great way to discourage charging EVs during peak times.

 

[Miles B]

I don't know where you think that the grid can support everybody using electric vehicles that's just absolutely nonsense.
You obviously have more money and time than most. for you it's no big deal. for the rest of us we have to work and struggle. I cannot afford $26000 for anything. I also don't use gas trucks. Diesel is more expensive but more efficient. I'm using a shoe string budget to run the ac in my house with my 14 used solar panels, taking a load off the grid so someone can charge their ev lol

Well, firstly, I'm a qualified electrical engineer. So the math isn't that hard for me. Secondly, there are other engineers who have done the math for me and made it into nice presentations. Combining those, I used evidence and science instead of just saying "tHaT'S aBsOlUtE NoNsEnSe" with nothing to back it up but my impression of "gee the power grid is shit" and "them gahd durned hippies".

Engineering Explained: Yes, The Grid Can Handle EVs - CleanTechnica

A great video at the Engineering Explained YouTube channel shows us that the grid can handle EVs, and does it in a very accessible way!

cleantechnica.com

Also, I just outlined for you how my conversion is costing me very little, and will save me 5 grand a year as well. If you want to debate on penny pinching, I've got you there too. Driving an electric car is just plain cheaper. Sure, you need to buy the car. But at some point we all have to replace our vehicles, and that just comes down to your credit score. One of the choices comes with a fuel and servicing bill, the other one comes with much smaller equivalents.

 

[Miles B]

Yes I'm aware of this. Unfortunately that's how it is. People come home and plug in.
We have seen the highest grid usage in history this year in Arizona. They are planning to do rolling black outs. But go buy a ev they said.

And isn't that because of peak loads of AC? Yeah, you can charge your EV at off peak times. It's actually good for the generators and lowers the cost of energy on average.

SRP customers break power usage record during hottest day of the year

SRP says they delivered a record amount of energy between 3 p.m. and 4 p.m. during Monday's sweltering heat.

www.azfamily.com

"The utility said the highest demand occurred between 3 p.m. and 4 p.m as many customers returned home."

So, set your EV to charge at night. Or if you have an energy plan that goes with the market, use that and pick up the super cheap solar excesses. No biggy.

 

[cs1234]

I drove a Nissan Leaf before what a turd

I drive a Prius, so I probably wouldn't notice a thing!