If the hybrid could get rid of the transmission I might be interested for a heavy vehicle. Electric around town and connect the ICE only at highway speeds.
"Ford secures battery supplies for 600,000 EVs a year from 2023"
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cs1234
Solar Wizard
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A serial hybrid, those are the ones that the engine is basically a generator / range extender. As long as the electric motors are powerful enough to actually power the car, like say, a tesla, there is no reason to mechanically couple the engine to the drivetrain.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
It is just one projection. Lots of things could make it happen faster or slower. The chip shortage is making new car sales stagnate. High gas prices might make it get to 13 million if supply chain gets better. How are EV sales down under?
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
All those people? I don't see that being a problem in Norway or California. If I lived in Denver with an EV with that weather forecast I would either check available charging stations or not take that trip that weekend.
Every model of EV available here is on back order.
This one always makes me laugh.. "EVs just won't work in the cold weather!"
Norway. 80+% of car sales in the middle of winter are EV.
"Oh."
Real world experience. My brother traded in his EV after the winter because of the reduced range. He is in Minnesota.
Most Norwegians live in coastal areas that don’t see the cold like we do in the Midwest. Oslo rarely gets below 32F in winter.
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OzSolar
Whatever you did, that's what you planned.
Sorry I just got here....
Last time I saw the stats it was something around 95% of people drive less than 30 miles per day 95% of time.
Heating does not kill the range of an EV. Nearly all of them have heated seats and steering wheels and you can easily get your car warmed up via an phone app while it is still plugged in. And if you must turn the air heater on it's 1kW which really doesn't hurt 95% of the people 95% of the time.
Every anti ev argument I've seen seems oddly out of place on this forum. It's like saying solar will never work because I can't run everything single thing in my house at 100% at the same time for 12 hours straight.
Last time I saw the stats it was something around 95% of people drive less than 30 miles per day 95% of time.
Heating does not kill the range of an EV. Nearly all of them have heated seats and steering wheels and you can easily get your car warmed up via an phone app while it is still plugged in. And if you must turn the air heater on it's 1kW which really doesn't hurt 95% of the people 95% of the time.
Every anti ev argument I've seen seems oddly out of place on this forum. It's like saying solar will never work because I can't run everything single thing in my house at 100% at the same time for 12 hours straight.
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GM engineers discovered 10% increase in economy with the Volt engine linked to the wheels.
Depending on the size and speed controls needed there probably are situations where using generators and motors is better.
cs1234
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Serial hybrids or attachable range extenders are probably the way to go for extremely cold climates. Even a relatively low power range extender that doesn't supply enough power for high speeds would be sufficient, as you shouldn't be going high speeds in those conditions anyway.
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
Way, way slower than in the US.
In the first half of 2022, 537,858 new cars were sold here. 9,680 of those were EVs (just 1.8% of sales).
At the present time, EVs represent 0.2% of all registered vehicles. About 40,000 out of 20 million.
I can't even buy an EV in the area I live. None of the local dealers and service departments have any training. It will takes years. I mean I can buy a Tesla remotely but it's 500+ km to the nearest service centre if for some reason they need to attend to something, which given Tesla's quality standards is a reasonable bet.
I'd be far more likely to buy an EV from a well established brand here with reasonable customer after care service reputation, names like Kia, Hyundai and a few others. In Australia Tesla is terrible in this respect, as are Mercedes, Ford and any in the Volkswagen group (note I own both a VW and a Merc). Toyota has lost the plot here, they won't even sell EVs. The emerging Chinese brands are far too new to risk but they will eventually cut everyone's grass like the Koreans did to the Japanese.
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
You know what, I don't think there is so much a chip shortage as idiotic excess of automative bean counter power.
Car makers played cutsey with the chip makers and screwed them down on price so much that when push came to shove the chip makers just decided to keep supplying far more profitable market segments first. Frankly it's a problem of the car manufacturers own making. They are classic examples of blame shifters.
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
That's true.
This thread was about Ford securing batteries for 600,000 EVs from 2023. Ford sells ~1.7 million vehicles a year in the US.
So presumably that means they will still be selling well over 1 million ICEVs a year for quite some time.
OzSolar
Whatever you did, that's what you planned.
Well said.
99% of the time your current internal combustion powered passenger car does everything you need it to do, right? But what about that time you need to get a new piece of furniture or appliance delivered? Do you call your car a complete failure? No, it doesn't even cross your mind, you get it delivered or ask a favor from a buddy with truck.
edit to fix a typo
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cs1234
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The volt has always been an interesting turkey. I like them, but the Prius was the much more commonly available vehicle at the time I got mine. I still wouldn't mind having one if I picked it up cheap enough.
Volt info
They turned it into a complicated rigamarole instead of the simpler series hybrid they originally proposed, hinted at, said once.. who knows. That creates more mechanical complexity and opportunity for failure.
I shouldn't have used the expression "no reason" to mechanically couple an ICE to the drive train, you got me on a carelessly used "absolute" statement, congrats.
Depending on the size of your traction batteries and their current charge, the size of your electric motors, etc.. you could stand to benefit from coupling an ICE to it at certain speeds or battery charge levels, certain terrains or work loads. This does cause you to have to use fuel though, which is supposed to be avoided except when absolutely necessary. Remember, we are trying to conserve gasoline, not electricity. Why would I want my hybrid to use gasoline just because it has it available to avoid using electricity from the battery? It's a plug in hybrid, I would rather just use the electricity and plug it back in sooner.
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tigerwillow1
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This is not a correction. "Some" is not incorrect if "most" turns out to be true. I get it, you're dug in and think you're right. I'm reminded of our recent pandemic where the studies were done and the data was clear, even announced by the president. Then the clear data changed a bunch of times. The pandemic was political. EVs are political. Please excuse those who think the clear data might not be correct.
cs1234
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Regardless of any politics, EV's / serial hybrids (real ones) can use a larger variety of energy sources and will ultimately prove more versatile navigating our future than a vehicle that is limited to only one type of fuel. An EV can be powered by a solar setup like @Will Prowse has going on. Unless you are making biodiesel at home, you aren't powering an ICE from anything you are generating at home.
lol
Oslo December 2021 Historical Weather Data (Norway) - Weather Spark
weatherspark.com
Looks fairly similar to Minneapolis. What do 84% of Norwegians know that your brother doesn't?
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At least you're honest that you prefer to ignore data. That's something I guess.
eXodus
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True,
USA has domestic EV manufacturing "Buy American" Tesla, Ford, GM,
USA already has good developed charging network and the Government is investing Billions in more charging
USA has cheap electric compared with Europe
USA people drive a lot of miles commuting - ideal use-case for EVs. While Europeans often have alternatives. (Bus, Train, Subway etc)
USA you got preferred Parking and Lanes for EVs (Florida and California)
USA many states do not charge road taxes for EVs either. (Gas tax pays for the roads)
USA has a dying Gas-Station Network
In parts of the country - I get range anxiety with my Gas guzzler, since every 5 Gas station in drive into is out of business
When this trend accelerates - EV will be the only choice for some people.
Like I said I used to work in Energy Economics, we did this kind of predictions. Not always right
I've spoken with a few old contacts at OEM car manufacturers, and they have their Books with Electric car orders filled till eternity.
If they would have the capacity today they could sell millions of EVs right now.
It's not a demand issue - its a supply issue.
Supply chains are a mess, no idea if it will make the transition that fast. Not my specialty.
This will be a Double S-Curve, It will be exponentially till like 80% (if not hampered by supply) and then flatten out and the last 20% will take forever. Remember 100 years after the introduction of the car there are still Horses used for transportation, we never achieved 100% transition
There are niche applications where EVs are just not good.
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