Hardware/Software Solutions for Smart Load Management

[TurbineTester]

I have found that 99.9% of the time, estimated, our entire house, garage, barn, and RV plug can run on the 60A/240V Split Phase Output of two EG4 6500EX inverters. Where we run into some issues bumping up against or over the 13KW limits is with high power appliance like the HVAC, Clothes Dryer and Water heater. So my question is how can i implememt some smart load management hardware or software to help keep our loads more even. For example: while the dryer is something that we literally do need to run on demand, the water heater and HVAC cycles could be limited to times during the day or night when the dryer is not running. With an 80 gallon water heater we could even over heat the water during times where we aren't using other loads and turn down the hot water output at faucets and tubs to keep water temp at safe levels. With the HVAC we could have a controlled shutdown or smart thermostat that receives a signal that the dryer is on so don't run right now, or heat/cool primarily during the hotest/brightest/best UV output parts of the day. This would allow us to use the WH tank as an "energy well" or "load sink", or even pre-heat the house for the overnight chill. Are there smart breakers/disconnects/thermostats that could be paired with solar assistant or other monitoriing software to help more evenly distribute the load on our system? Thanks in advance all your brilliant people

 

[Texican]

I have both grid tie and off grid systems to manage.

so far, what I am doing is using a timer on the water heater to be off between 7:30 pm and noon
so at noon the WH turns on at max solar, runs 30-50 minutes. we are retired and both shower at night. I wait til after 730 for mine, so the WH does not kick on again

now at noon again, I have a timer/temp controller on a 2 ton window unit in the workshop where we have some rescue cats living as well as the off grid components. I have the timer/temp controller, turn off the unit for 45 minutes at noon. Trying to keep the draw on grid down while the WH runs

while I sometimes use the grid tie system to supplement the off grid system, using either SUB or Utility First modes,
I wish that in certain conditions, I could use my off grid system to send extra juice to the grid adding to what the grid tie is sending. not possible with my current setup

I wish I could easily switch loads like the WH between the grid (where is is now) and the off grid system

 

[TurbineTester]

So we have 6 people including 4 kids in our house and the laundry load is significant with 4 kids in sports etc. The water heater, dryer and HVAC use is what i'm really trying to automate because those are the loads that have trippee the system. I know i can use a timer on the water heater and possibly even the HVAC, but i'd really like to enable some kind of smart load detection to automated what gets turned off/on based on other loads.

 

[Texican]

for starters, do you have a circuit monitoring system ? I have emporia vue, but Iotawatt is even better and works with home assistant

 

[TurbineTester]

for starters, do you have a circuit monitoring system ? I have emporia vue, but Iotawatt is even better and works with home assistant

I have nothing other than solar assistant. I'm looking for the best hardward software combinations to implement from scratch i guess. Is Iotawatt the best/most capable for what i need?

 

[Texican]

I have nothing other than solar assistant. I'm looking for the best hardward software combinations to implement from scratch i guess. Is Iotawatt the best/most capable for what i need?

yes it is. I have 4 emporia systems because I have that many panels and outbuildings and emporia is cheaper. I got them before I began using home assistant for monitoring.

the Iotawatt allows both collecting data locally, and then into home assistant, and also having it avbl in their cloud so you can see from anywhere.

the emporia is cloud only, and they will not send the 1 second data to home assistant, only the 1 minute and 1 hour data. so while I can use the data from emporia in my home assistant it is not instantaneous data

iotawatt costs more, but if you only need to monitor 1 panel and also want to use home assistant, its the way to go

 

[OzSolar]

I have found that 99.9% of the time, estimated, our entire house, garage, barn, and RV plug can run on the 60A/240V Split Phase Output of two EG4 6500EX inverters. Where we run into some issues bumping up against or over the 13KW limits is with high power appliance like the HVAC, Clothes Dryer and Water heater. So my question is how can i implememt some smart load management hardware or software to help keep our loads more even.

I'll throw out another direction to consider.

Heat pump water heaters and clothes dryers are available. A friend has had a HP dryer for a year and edit loves it it failed a few months after the warranty had expired. Thankfully he bought the extended warranty. Granted, your family of 6 might task both of them but you could possibly turn ~10kW of loads into ~3kW.

 

[TurbineTester]

I'll throw out another direction to consider.

Heat pump water heaters and clothes dryers are available. A friend has had a HP dryer for a year and loves it. Granted, your family of 6 might task both of them but you could possibly turn ~10kW of loads into ~3kW.

So these would be heat pumps vs the typical resistive elements found in almsot all residential WH and Dryers? I can look into these but as of right now i have no plans to replace either of these items in my house currently. I don't see heat pump water heaters at lowes, where would you recommnd i shop for heat pump appliances in the future?

 

[TurbineTester]

yes it is. I have 4 emporia systems because I have that many panels and outbuildings and emporia is cheaper. I got them before I began using home assistant for monitoring.

the Iotawatt allows both collecting data locally, and then into home assistant, and also having it avbl in their cloud so you can see from anywhere.

the emporia is cloud only, and they will not send the 1 second data to home assistant, only the 1 minute and 1 hour data. so while I can use the data from emporia in my home assistant it is not instantaneous data

iotawatt costs more, but if you only need to monitor 1 panel and also want to use home assistant, its the way to go

So i get Iotawatt, it can output data to HomeAssistant, then what can home assistant do with it to control the water heater or HVAC?

 

[OzSolar]

So these would be heat pumps vs the typical resistive elements found in almsot all residential WH and Dryers?

Exactly. One does need to consider where they are installed as they will cool the area around them. That may not matter, or it may even be a benefit. The water heaters can fitted with a vent to dump the cold air outside. I'm not sure about the dryers.

 

[OzSolar]

Are there smart breakers/disconnects/thermostats that could be paired with solar assistant or other monitoriing software to help more evenly distribute the load on our system?

Several manufacturers are making "Smart Load Panels" that can both monitor and control loads but that's all I know about them.

Understanding Smart Electrical Panels

Home technology expert Ross Trethewey and master electrician Heath Eastman teach host Kevin O’Connor about this new wave of electrical technology.

www.thisoldhouse.com

 

[Texican]

people here have done many automations,
I would think that all involved appliances would need to have wifi controls, I think some very creative folks have made like controlable contactors that switch on/off power
if you have control of the appliance avbl, then not to hard to be able to do things like.. if appliance ciruit A sees power being used then turn off appliance B

 

[Texican]

Several manufacturers are making "Smart Load Panels" that can both monitor and control loads but that's all I know about them.

Understanding Smart Electrical Panels

Home technology expert Ross Trethewey and master electrician Heath Eastman teach host Kevin O’Connor about this new wave of electrical technology.

www.thisoldhouse.com

I think very expensive....like very

 

[Texican]

just for laughs
tell the kids they will need to use a clothes line

never, never say that to the wife
lol

 

[OzSolar]

I think very expensive....like very

I think mentioned $2,000 for the panel plus installation. In the grand scheme of things, assuming it works well, that might not be to bad.

However, I'm not particularly suggesting that product, just trying to help the OP get farther down the road towards a product that suits them. Try googling "smart breakers". There's a lot them for not much money but I can't to speak to how well they work.

They also mentioned $3,500 but I think that was for the Enphase product??

 

[OzSolar]

I don't see heat pump water heaters at lowes, where would you recommnd i shop for heat pump appliances in the future?

Both Lowe's and Home Depot have them in my town.

FWIW, I've been around this stuff for a long time and would offer that most systems to manage loads (peak load shaving) end up getting abandoned for a variety of reasons. EG: "Everyone's got to shower and be out the door in 60 minutes, but there's no hot water" can only happen once or twice before the other members of the house turn on you.

This latest round of products may be completely different.

 

[Texican]

Both Lowe's and Home Depot have them in my town.

FWIW, I've been around this stuff for a long time and would offer that most systems to manage loads (peak load shaving) end up getting abandoned for a variety of reasons. EG: "Everyone's got to shower and be out the door in 60 minutes, but there's no hot water" can only happen once or twice before the other members of the house turn on you.

This latest round of products may be completely different.

and some maybe be technicaly possible, but not practical. like in summer, running dryer creates heat and you want to turn off the A/C
now in winter that might be exactly what you want to do,,,turn off heat while dryer is running

 

[TurbineTester]

I don't want to upgrade the electrical panel at this point.

 

[OzSolar]

No one said you had to. All I can do is offer you some directions to take. You can do your own research with that information, or you can wait for others to provide you specific links to the exact parts you're looking for.

 

[Texican]

once you get the iotawatt you can start to build some dashboards in home assistant
here is the one I use to monitor 3 systems
the second one is to monitor all my circuits using data from emporia