I really like the new powerpro battery..

[timselectric]

You must be some genetic anomaly.

My 400ah is like 320lbs. Had to use a cherry picker.

You must be referring to a pre made battery.
I was referring to individual cells.

 

[timselectric]

I have a 1,500ah battery bank.
I built it 12 lbs at a time.

 

[sunsurfer]

Until solid state batteries arrive for reals.

You mean the silver/carbon military style batts Toyota is planning on building for their EVs? Shouldn't be to expensive once silver hits $1,000+ an ounce.

 

[ArtieKendall]

Can't believe I moved all of those batteries after leg day ? I'm never going back. I thought, what do I really want for a system. Ruixu stack and propower packs are my favorite. Almost 60kWh:
View attachment 162426View attachment 162427View attachment 162428View attachment 162429


I need to rewire this system and make it look cool. But damn, it's beautiful! So much space!

Never mind the batteries, tell me about the coating on your floor!

 

[hightecrebel]

The battery is pretty cool, but I have nowhere in my house to put it. Maybe if I built a dedicated solar shed, but the cost of a sturdy enough & insulated shed would be more than the batteries & AIO. I'm leaning towards the Ruixu at the moment, but still got a bit of prep work for the house before I can pull the trigger on the purchase

 

[JWLV]

The PowerPro battery does look sweet. I was planning to get 6 of the EG4 LL next year. But now I'm thinking 2 or 3 of the PowerPro batteries might be better. By next year, I'm hoping that any issues with the PowerPros will be identified and fixed.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

You must be referring to a pre made battery.
I was referring to individual cells.

Yes premade battery. 16s4P

My mistake..

 

[Rednecktek]

UL9540: One rack (cluster) is limited to 20kWh (note: 4 batteries of 5.1kWh exceeds that). Each rack must be separated by 3 feet. Each location (inside, garage, outside) is limited to 40kWh.

Implies Max 120kWh at the house (40 kWh at each location). Don't know rules for Solar shed separated from the house.

So I was reading through the Mike Holt book on solar and NEC and I'm not seeing anything in the NEC about an upper limit to battery storage, just the minimum of 1Kwh. Where does the NEC and the UL9540 come in when there's a conflict? Does one supersede the other or do you have to apply ALL the rules from BOTH regulatory ends?

15Kwh is a pretty small limit when you're feeding 12Kw inverters, is there any kind of guide or simplified examples you know of to help clarify all that?

As a note, my state has NEC2020, which is confusing enough, and I have no idea how the UL9540 gets involved in all that. Trying to learn.

 

[HighTechLab]

NEC article 706...

but it's very interesting comparing how article 706 looks in 2020NEC versus 2023 NEC. Seems to me 2023 might be a bit more relaxed...

Free NEC access (requires account):

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The leading information and knowledge resource on fire, electrical and related hazards.

link.nfpa.org

 

[DIYrich]

So I was reading through the Mike Holt book on solar and NEC and I'm not seeing anything in the NEC about an upper limit to battery storage, just the minimum of 1Kwh. Where does the NEC and the UL9540 come in when there's a conflict? Does one supersede the other or do you have to apply ALL the rules from BOTH regulatory ends?

15Kwh is a pretty small limit when you're feeding 12Kw inverters, is there any kind of guide or simplified examples you know of to help clarify all that?

As a note, my state has NEC2020, which is confusing enough, and I have no idea how the UL9540 gets involved in all that. Trying to learn.

Most municipalities adopt most or all of a version of NEC with their local modifications. When NEC mentions "Listed", I think that is when UL comes into play (NEC says batteries must be "listed"). If a product is UL Listed with certain requirements (i.e. listed at 3 feet separation), then you need to meet the listing requirements. If there is a non-resolvable conflict (NEC says wire must be in metal conduit, and UL Listing testing says wire not in metal conduit), then you probably can't use it for your purpose. UL 9540A does allow for your specific situation to be tested and then be considred "listed".

15kWh is the limit for ONE RACK. You can have multiple racks separated by at least 3 feet in one location. Max in any one location (indoors, garage, and outdoors, each being considered a location) is 40kWh. Using rack batteries, you could have 3 racks, each separated by 3 feet, holding a total of 7 batteries of 5.1kW each (3-3-1,. 3-2-2, 3-2-1-1, 3-1-1-1, 2-2-2-1, etc.). You could put 35.7kWh inside, 35.7kWh in the garage, and 35.7kWh outside for a total of 107.1 kWh at one house.

If you wanted to push it, you could have 3-3-1.5 inside, where the .5 is a 24v 100ah battery that is tied in Series with another 0.5 battery in the garage.

 

[Rednecktek]

15kWh is the limit for ONE RACK. You can have multiple racks separated by at least 3 feet in one location. Max in any one location (indoors, garage, and outdoors, each being considered a location) is 40kWh. Using rack batteries, you could have 3 racks, each separated by 3 feet, holding a total of 7 batteries of 5.1kW each (3-3-1,. 3-2-2, 3-2-1-1, 3-1-1-1, 2-2-2-1, etc.). You could put 35.7kWh inside, 35.7kWh in the garage, and 35.7kWh outside for a total of 107.1 kWh at one house.

So if you had a 6 or 8 slot cabinet you could still only put 15Kw in there? That's a lot of wasted space. In relation to the new wall mount battery, only 2 in a room because 3 would be 45Kw? Again, that's really not much capacity.

So now not only do we need to wrap our brains around NEC2020 and grounding/earthing/that whole mess, but also need to figure out all the UL9540 conditions too?

Sigh... this is getting harder and harder with every revision.

 

[timselectric]

Sigh... this is getting harder and harder with every revision.

Bureaucracy at its finest.

 

[Hedges]

I think the key will be a rack of batteries that has been tested regarding fire. There are already listed ESS where the battery is > 30 kWh. May need additional tests to meet new fire safety restrictions.

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At least some of those parings are one some approved lists for California. Not sure exactly what standards they're listed to.

 

[PreppenWolf]

I would really like to know more about the heating performance in cold weather. Hard data on total daily power consumption if in 20F, 10F, 0F conditions. I see the spec sheet has 223W listed for the heater, but that's not enough info to judge performance. How insulated the box?

I'm building a cabin on my property that will be insulated but not heated and have its own 3kW solar system. I'm currently planning on lead acid due to the temps here in NH, but if the power consumption is reasonable for a full day at colder temps I'm willing to panel up some and/or do a secondary insulation cabinet to go LiFePO4.

 

[Deveak]

I think you can get those quick fit terminals on aliexpress. I’ve seen them before. Kind of neat and would make a home built look a bit more professional.

Really neat battery overall but home built still has the lowest cost. I saw 110-120 a kWh for cells. I’d say 150 is possible after bms etc. hard to say what we will be using in 10 years. Rapid change. My l16s are about to crap the bed so I will have to make a choice. I think 15 years is pretty good for l16s.

 

[fxrdr31]

What do you plan on doing with the extra server rack batteries with moving over to the power pros?

 

[Deveak]

You mean the silver/carbon military style batts Toyota is planning on building for their EVs? Shouldn't be to expensive once silver hits $1,000+ an ounce.

Silver as a material? Has that been confirmed? Would make for a great boon for silver hoarders like me! The price would definitely get jacked up.

 

[phantomsoulproducer]

I didn't realize it until last night, but I think this battery is pretty sweet. The look, form factor, busbar with quick connectors, communication ability, internal heaters, outdoor rated and the list goes on.

Now I want to dump my server rack batteries. Which one would you rather have. This setup:
View attachment 162371
Or four of these:
View attachment 162372

I just love the look. I love sci-fi movies and I want to make a system that looks really cool. I'm thinking four batteries and an 18K would do everything I need.

The communication set up was a bit difficult. I should probably make a setup video for beginners. I think anybody could figure it out though if they read the whole manual. I think there should be a tutorial on designating the master battery right after the communication protocol set up.

But besides that, this battery is pretty impressive. I'm going to be asking all of the other companies why they don't have this type of battery. Hopefully we can get some healthy competition into the market.

What do you guys think. Is there anything that you dislike about this battery that I'm missing? I really didn't think I was going to like it but seeing it in my shop in person, makes me want only these batteries now. I think I might move my server rack batteries into my garage today. I only have two power pro batteries but I could run everything I need with them. I'm almost at 5 megawatt hours with my 18K, so I really don't need to push tons of loads through it anymore. Making a beautiful system would be fun. I want to add LED lights behind it and make it pop

The life power batteries I dig on only because I've worked on them before. On the other hand the newer smaller eg4 setup look compact, slick, and spacious so that a tough 1

I didn't realize it until last night, but I think this battery is pretty sweet. The look, form factor, busbar with quick connectors, communication ability, internal heaters, outdoor rated and the list goes on.

Now I want to dump my server rack batteries. Which one would you rather have. This setup:
View attachment 162371
Or four of these:
View attachment 162372

I just love the look. I love sci-fi movies and I want to make a system that looks really cool. I'm thinking four batteries and an 18K would do everything I need.

The communication set up was a bit difficult. I should probably make a setup video for beginners. I think anybody could figure it out though if they read the whole manual. I think there should be a tutorial on designating the master battery right after the communication protocol set up.

But besides that, this battery is pretty impressive. I'm going to be asking all of the other companies why they don't have this type of battery. Hopefully we can get some healthy competition into the market.

What do you guys think. Is there anything that you dislike about this battery that I'm missing? I really didn't think I was going to like it but seeing it in my shop in person, makes me want only these batteries now. I think I might move my server rack batteries into my garage today. I only have two power pro batteries but I could run everything I need with them. I'm almost at 5 megawatt hours with my 18K, so I really don't need to push tons of loads through it anymore. Making a beautiful system would be fun. I want to add LED lights behind it and make it pop

I dig the lifepower4 setup only because I've seen what they can do 1st hand. But the smaller unit looks pretty slick so you can't go wrong with either selection.. My question is, are four of those in 1 area less of a foot print than a single battery rack??

 

[timselectric]

Not in footprint or wall space taken.
They just don't stick out as far from the wall.

 

[Zwy]

Sigh... this is getting harder and harder with every revision.

Hint: It's done on purpose.