Install and Operation of the SUNGOLD 10KW 48V SPLIT PHASE SOLAR INVERTER

[Kenny_]

I'm sorry, I haven't actively followed this thread, I got "invoked" lol and so I chimed in from what I picked up, but more generically.
The "grand experience" here has taught the lesson about being reasonable & conservative, it's the best & simplest solution to the majority of issues when it comes to charging & maintaining battery packs. When dealing with a bank full, well stuff really pops up and can cause follicle loss ! I ain't got much left no more ;-) Simply put, keeping within LFP Working Range spec and taking the "average", works best with all of the packs in a bank making life a hell of a lot easier.

On the SUNGOLD BMS, I do not know exactly WHAT they are but from the screen shots they appear to NOT have that 100% set default. It also looked like your BMS is unlocked (some companies require admin to adjust some parameters) so it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot.

Steve

Understand. Appreciate your chiming and sorry to Ping You. but you the man! I'm the neophyte but damnit I will learn this and get it to operate both optimally and without babysitting if it is humanly possible because if nothing else I'm tenacious.

No the BMS is not actually unlocked but I am using the SOK PBMStools which allows me to unlock/change it at my own risk!

 

[Steve_S]

I am using the SOK PBMStools which allows me to unlock/change it at my own risk!

Locked BMS is not something I approve of personally. Yes at your own risk BUT reality is, some companies who lock the settings are pushing things a bit much. The worst part, is there is absolutely no reason to do so. IE some would insist that FULL = 58.4 (3.65VPC) and that's STOOPID ! The settings I provided will not harm anything & you can set the 100% point with the software, make that 3.500 Vpc 56.0V and Bon's your uncle, have a pint.

 

[Kenny_]

Well hell....it just stopped charging and NONE of the packs hit 100% one at 99.8 lowest (#5) at 99.3
voltages all packs/batteries at 53 V... cells at 33.08 (#5) and others 33.13, .12 .11 etc...

Arrrgh...

going back on batteries and getting away from this quagmire!

 

[marionw]

Does the SOKTool still show current flowing into the battery event though it is at 100% SOC?
When charging mine from the EG4 ChargeInverter the battery(s) will report 100% SOC even with current flowing into the battery. None of the cells (or at least most) have not reached at 3.4 volts, the current is low, usually less than 5 amps.

Is BMS reported 100% SOC really 100% SOC.

Also remember that the master battery is reporting what it calculates to be the condition of the entire battery stack (how it calculates this, by average? who knows). The master battery is pulling what most protocols refer to as "analog data" which includes individual cell voltages, temperatures, SOC, SOH and alarm conditions (cell undervoltage, cell overtvoltage, temps out of range; under or over etc). How the master battery puts this into the data sent to the inverter (at the request/command from the inverter)) is anyones guess. The master battery also pulls alarm data from each battery as well.

Can you live with batteries that fluctuate between say 50-60 SOC and 98. You are still driving on the top half of the tank and hopefully maximizing battery life.

You responded as I was writing this. What is the battery voltage? Increase #37 in small increments, try 55.5 volts. The full charge parameter in the BMS is 56 volts.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I bet it's a running cell.
What's the bulk charging time set to?

 

[Kenny_]

Does the SOKTool still show current flowing into the battery event though it is at 100% SOC?
When charging mine from the EG4 ChargeInverter the battery(s) will report 100% SOC even with current flowing into the battery. None of the cells (or at least most) have not reached at 3.4 volts, the current is low, usually less than 5 amps.

Is BMS reported 100% SOC really 100% SOC.

Also remember that the master battery is reporting what it calculates to be the condition of the entire battery stack (how it calculates this, by average? who knows). The master battery is pulling what most protocols refer to as "analog data" which includes individual cell voltages, temperatures, SOC, SOH and alarm conditions (cell undervoltage, cell overtvoltage, temps out of range; under or over etc). How the master battery puts this into the data sent to the inverter (at the request/command from the inverter)) is anyones guess. The master battery also pulls alarm data from each battery as well.

Can you live with batteries that fluctuate between say 50-60 SOC and 98. You are still driving on the top half of the tank and hopefully maximizing battery life.

You responded as I was writing this. What is the battery voltage? Increase #37 in small increments, try 55.5 volts. The full charge parameter in the BMS is 56 volts.

No, no current No voltage. In discharging state.

Can't change 37 cause it never reaches anywhere near those voltages. It's getting shut down apparently by hitting 100% SOC with the pack and cell voltages still considerably lower than 'full'

IDK.... It's like the batteries got somehow 'programmed' to a 100% SOC much lower than optimal.

 

[Kenny_]

I bet it's a running cell.
What's the bulk charging time set to?

Bulk charging time Param #10 is set to 120 default so two hours from my reading.

 

[marionw]

Again you responded as I was typing, The float charge voltage I believe is the same so it might not make a difference.

Pause for a moment and view and record the configuration settings:

【15】＜【12】＜【04】＜【14】＜【35】＜【37】＜【05】＜【09/11】

rememeber as you move from right to left the value has to be lower.

Changing a value on the right is some cases automatically changes the values to the left even though you did not change them yourself.

The Inverter also asks the BMS for "Get system charge discharge management info" (0x63h) which includes several charge flags; Charge Enable (1=yes, 0=request stop charge), Discharge Enable (1=yes, 0=request stop discharge), Charge Immediately (1=yes=, 0=normal) and Full Charge Request (1=yes, 0=normal).

Don't know yet what the inverter does with this info but it could also be that the BMS is telling the inverter to stop charging.

 

[Kenny_]

Can you live with batteries that fluctuate between say 50-60 SOC and 98. You are still driving on the top half of the tank and hopefully maximizing battery life.

I can live with whatever but would like to get what I can from the batteries... just seems like the SOC and the battery/cell voltages are not in sync.

I can live with that I suppose but just don't seem right.

They/the system (likely the batteries) thinks 100% = 53 V apparently and I'm not sure how I should go about resetting that, or even if it is possible.

 

[Kenny_]

Again you responded as I was typing, The float charge voltage I believe is the same so it might not make a difference.

Pause for a moment and view and record the configuration settings:

【15】＜【12】＜【04】＜【14】＜【35】＜【37】＜【05】＜【09/11】

rememeber as you move from right to left the value has to be lower.

Changing a value on the right is some cases automatically changes the values to the left even though you did not change them yourself.

The Inverter also asks the BMS for "Get system charge discharge management info" (0x63h) which includes several charge flags; Charge Enable (1=yes, 0=request stop charge), Discharge Enable (1=yes, 0=request stop discharge), Charge Immediately (1=yes=, 0=normal) and Full Charge Request (1=yes, 0=normal).

Don't know yet what the inverter does with this info but it could also be that the BMS is telling the inverter to stop charging.

As I said the BMS is telling the inverter it is at 100% and it stops charging...but The 100% is not fully charged according to what is considered a fully charged battery... It thinks 100% is 53 volts.

I'll look at those values but I'm relatively certain they meet your criteria but I'm not sure where you got that.

The issue is or seems to be as I said above.

What I'm a bit confused about in this latest test is why none of the batteries actually hit 100%..
99.8 was the highest. I've seen it every time I've force charged them that they will hit 100% one at a time as they continue to charge except for the last one (#5) which will be at like 99.7% or so and charging will stop. Unless they were closer together (which they were) and that caused it.

Dunno. This dang system is making me crazy. The damn thing should just work. With all this protective software and monitoring and feedback and communication ... and for $10k ...it should just f'ing work!

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

hit 100% one at a time as they continue to charge except for the last one

This may have been asked and answered before, but do you have a bus bar now, or how are they connected?

 

[Kenny_]

This may have been asked and answered before, but do you have a bus bar now, or how are they connected?

No buss bar...connected together with cables supplied with the batteries.... inverter connected 'diagonally' + to battery 1 - to battery 5.

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

inverter connected 'diagonally' + to battery 1 - to battery 5.

According to many web pages, that's a problem

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

I too use the original cables from SGP, but like this. And I am concerned that one post has 2 batteries. I cannot hook #5 to the free one on the right.. it's M10 vs M8.

 

[marionw]

"【15】＜【12】＜【04】＜【14】＜【35】＜【37】＜【05】＜【09/11】" provided by Alisa (not Cindy) from SGP.

What are #9, #11 and #5 set at?
#9 and #11 are set by the BMS, you would only be able to change them if the Battery Type is = "User". I expect they are at leat 56.0
Bump #37 up to 55.0 (or bump up in small increments to 56.0 or just under #5)
I have always seen the SOC reach 100% while the battery was still charging, cells were below 3.4 and the battery was still accepting charging current.
I don't know if the Inverter will continue to "float" the batteries even after the Inverter thinks they are at 100% SOC. I would hope that the Inverter would and then there would still be charging current (much lower than bulk) still flowing to the batteries.

Does the SOKTool show and current for any of the batteries? Are all the cells at lest than 3.4.
In the "System Status" box, what is the state of the "CHARGING-ON" or "CHARGING-OFF" indicator and what is the state of the "CHARGING" indicator. The "CHARGING-ON"/ "CHARGING-OFF" is the state of the Charge MOSFETS, if it is "CHARGING-OFF" the BMS will not charge anything, if it is "CHARGING-ON" but the "CHARGING" is gray then the battery is definitely not charging, this could be that the Inverter charge voltage is not higher than the battery voltage so no current. Use a multimeter and measure the battery connections in the inverter or on the positive and negative cables to the inverter. If the voltage is higher than the battery reported voltage then the battery should be charging, unless the BMS turned off the "CHARGING-ON"

What is SA saying the battery SOC is; Dashboard › Battery, the top block is what SA gets from the Inverter (and what the master BMS is reporting to the inverter).
You just need to find the sweet spot where the inverter will "float" the batteries to the finish line, that is where the cells get to 3.4 volts. Bulk charge to 90-95% then float charge to 100%

 

[Kenny_]

According to many web pages, that's a problem

Thanks. I don't think that is my issue but appreciate it.

 

[Kenny_]

【15】＜【12】＜【04】＜【14】＜【35】＜【37】＜【05】＜【09/11】" provided by Alisa (not Cindy) from SGP.

Ah! I think you said that before... I forgot... Thanks...

and thanks for all you help btw! Much appreciated and to everyone helping and contributing to this thread! Thank You!!
It is good and hopefully good information for other SGK owners!

 

[42OhmsPA]

What are settings 05, 60, and 62?
Windering if one of them could be causing it to switch to grid.

 

[marionw]

My ChargeInverter is set at 55 volts.
BMS is not charging, but the BMS will accept a charge.
Also note the Remain Capacity which really = 99.5 SOC.
If I were to bump the ChargeInverters output voltage to 55.5 this battery would continue to charge. (I did see below)

"CHARGING-ON" even though all cells are above 3.4, some even above 3.5





But just for you I bumped the voltage up to 55.5

 

[42OhmsPA]

My ChargeInverter is set at 55 volts.
BMS is not charging, but the BMS will accept a charge.
Also note the Remain Capacity which really = 99.5 SOC.
If I were to bump the ChargeInverters output voltage to 55.5 this battery would continue to charge. (I did see below)

"CHARGING-ON" even though all cells are above 3.4, some even above 3.5


View attachment 188987


But just for you I bumped the voltage up to 55.5

View attachment 188989

I'd hold it there for a while and let them balance.

 

[Kenny_]

"【15】＜【12】＜【04】＜【14】＜【35】＜【37】＜【05】＜【09/11】" provided by Alisa (not Cindy) from SGP.

40 43.2 49.2 49.6 52.8 54.8 57.6 and 56.4 56.4

so yes there is a discrepancy with 5 and 9/11
and I don't know why I've never changed or fiddled with them but they don't match the default of 57.6 (both 9 and 11) but that's not > 5 which is also 57.6

default for 5 is 56.8 which would fit in the sequence and be less than the default for 57.6

Perhaps I should try to change those - 5, 9, 11 .... whatdayathink?

what is the 9/11 stuff... should they be the same (defaults are different) and inverter values appear to have changed from when I first recorded them ... hmmm...

 

[Kenny_]

My ChargeInverter is set at 55 volts.
BMS is not charging, but the BMS will accept a charge.
Also note the Remain Capacity which really = 99.5 SOC.
If I were to bump the ChargeInverters output voltage to 55.5 this battery would continue to charge. (I did see below)

"CHARGING-ON" even though all cells are above 3.4, some even above 3.5


View attachment 188987


But just for you I bumped the voltage up to 55.5

View attachment 188989

Yep, I believe all that but my battery voltages are never getting any where near 55 ... the charging stopped at 53 and claimed 100%...

 

[marionw]

Actually I turned the ChargeInvert off and they will balance out very nicely.
Actually got a Cell Overvoltage Alarm. The battery is under a small load so the battery voltage has dropped, the Cell Overvoltage alarm has cleared and the Charging MOSFET is back on.

I generally do not like pushing the charge expecting the BMS to protect the battery, rather like constantly pulling max amps from a circuit and living with the constant tripping of a breaker.

I can live with 98% SOC rather than push the charge. In the long run, better for the battery

 

[Kenny_]

What are settings 05, 60, and 62?
Windering if one of them could be causing it to switch to grid.

5 is 57.6 (not default which is 56,.8) 60 is 100 (default) and 62 is 100 (default)

 

[Kenny_]

...okay so I changed param #5 to 56. I can't change 9 or 11

so with that changed 5 the sequence is maintained.

I really can't see why that would cause the weirdness I'm seeing with the batteries stopping charging at 53 v = 100% SOC though.

Just more confusion to me who is thinking it's the batteries telling the Inverter they are at 100% and it is stopping charging....

Confusion rains.

again guys Thank you for all your help and efforts!