Install and Operation of the SUNGOLD 10KW 48V SPLIT PHASE SOLAR INVERTER

[Kenny_]

Hmmmm.... just noticed charging has stopped... battery #5 at 99% SOC (but maybe it touched 100?? dunno)...

Here's my SA battery status page:

 

[Steve_S]

There are a LOT of things to unpack here. I only looked back a bit, not the whole shpeel.
I am unsure what BMS those SunGold packs use but they look like Seplos/Pace/TDT without Active Balancing. NONE of those will reset to 100% until 1 cell has hit High Volt Disconnect.. it's a known quirk that MANY BMS' have, even the older JK's, Daly's & JBD's.
The only way to resolve that is to set the High Volt Disconnect lower to something like 3.550 which a runner cell will hit before the rest.
NOTE that some BMS' are Feature/Function locked and some setting changes/adjustments may be disabled.

Part of the issues are DIRECTLY related to the charging profile in use...

Bulk/Absorb: 55.2V for 60 minutes (3.45vpc) (some call this boost) this rarely actually runs the full 60 mins because of EndAmps
Equalize: OFF
Float 55.0V (3.437vpc)
MIn Volts: 42.4 (2.650vpc)
Max Volts: 57.2 (3.575vpc)
Rebulk Voltage: 51.2 (3.200vpc)
End Amps/Tail Current: (*1)
(*1): End Amps is calculated as follows, 100AH X 0.05 = 5A, 280AH X 0.05 = 14A.
Coulumbic Efficiency / Battery Status Meter Efficiency for LFP = 99%.

!!! Install a Smart Active Balancer
There are different ways to do so depending on BMS in use... ALSO SunGold may nullify warranty do BEWARE !
Set to start Balance @ 3.200, when cell delta is over 0.010V.
NB: Active MOVES power from Hi to Lo cells and does not waste it. When not running it uses nothing.
It CANNOT fix a bad cell and in some instances where you have a bad cell that won't take charge above a certain voltage, active can end up trying to fill that 1 cell until all other cells in that packs are down to that point. IF that is teh case, the ONLY solution is to replace that defective cell.

BULK & ABSORB (there is confusion because different companies "play" with the terminology.
BULK is CV-CC (plain & simple)
ABSORB is also CV-CC but is usually restricted to a Timer or BMS Control.
FLOAT is Constant Voltage Variable Current as this will allow the current to reduce as IR increases while still able to increase current to service any loads from solar.

~ THE BAD NEWS NO ONE LIKES TO HEAR ~
The "Lowest Common Denominator" rules the battery pack AND the battery bank.
If you have 16 cells and they are matched (IR across working voltage range) they will work essentially in unison, no problem. But if 1 cell is unmatched it will become a "runner" which may either lose or take charge faster or slower.
That means if it hits Hi Volt Disconnect before the others it will "pause" the BMS till that cell settles down, meanwhile no charge is going in...
It also means that during discharge, that cell hits Lo Volt Disconnect, the pack stops discharging, even if the other cells are all higher voltage.
In essence, a Hi Runner will limit the pack because the lowest cell will Rule and all other cells will be lowered to that level.
If you have 5 packs in parallel and 1 pack stays lower than the rest, the rest will backfeed it to balance the entire bank (at pack level).

From my resources, may be helpful to have handy.

 

[Kenny_]

Thank you @Steve_S !!! Yes, they use a Pace BMS...

I'll try to digest this and make changes. Will not likely install an Active Balancer at this point as I'm still trying to understand all this info and as far as Sungold's warranty ... they seem very difficult to deal with warranty wise so I have no particular concerns wrt voiding the warrant now that I've seen their true colors.

I'm considering building my next battery my self so any input on that is appreciated wrt BMS, cells, enclosure, etc.

 

[Steve_S]

Thank you @Steve_S !!! Yes, they use a Pace BMS...

I'll try to digest this and make changes. Will not likely install an Active Balancer at this point as I'm still trying to understand all this info and as far as Sungold's warranty ... they seem very difficult to deal with warranty wise so I have no particular concerns wrt voiding the warrant now that I've seen their true colors.

I'm considering building my next battery my self so any input on that is appreciated wrt BMS, cells, enclosure, etc.

I'm sorry but I do not spend much time furtling with 2nd or 3rd tier products much.
With "today's" products & goodies, I would only suggest JKBMS (Inverter edition), Grade-A Fully Matched & Batched cells or even Grade-B IF "properly matched & bached, not just voltage-IR matched @ static storage voltage) and with steel cases.
In my signature is a link to Tech Basic Guide which covers battery system assembly. And more...

 

[Kenny_]

I'm sorry but I do not spend much time furtling with 2nd or 3rd tier products much.
With "today's" products & goodies, I would only suggest JKBMS (Inverter edition), Grade-A Fully Matched & Batched cells or even Grade-B IF "properly matched & bached, not just voltage-IR matched @ static storage voltage) and with steel cases.
In my signature is a link to Tech Basic Guide which covers battery system assembly. And more...

Thank You! Very Much Appreciated!

 

[Kenny_]

And this is kind of a random comment, but hey...

I'm not liking how the 10K48 inverter fans/cooling is working.

The fans blow the hot air out the BOTTOM....that's ridiculous... heat rises, it should flow from bottom to top not fight thermodynamics!

 

[Partimewages]

Well, heat doesn't rise. Heated air does. Heat travels from something relatively warm to something relatively cool
This probably has to do with internal component layout. Remember the incoming air is cooler so the thermal effects are it falling through the inverter.
Just a guess since I didn't engineer it.

 

[Kenny_]

Well, heat doesn't rise. Heated air does. Heat travels from something relatively warm to something relatively cool
This probably has to do with internal component layout. Remember the incoming air is cooler so the thermal effects are it falling through the inverter.
Just a guess since I didn't engineer it.

Well I do understand thermodynamics and heat and heat flow to some extent and this is simply backwards. If the 'heat generating components' are at the bottom of the device maybe the fans should be on the sides or front/back sucking the heat away (and away from components above them...still not right as it exists IMO.

 

[Partimewages]

Not disagreeing but I don't know what they were trying to do

 

[Hedges]

And this is kind of a random comment, but hey...

I'm not liking how the 10K48 inverter fans/cooling is working.

The fans blow the hot air out the BOTTOM....that's ridiculous... heat rises, it should flow from bottom to top not fight thermodynamics!

Well, heat doesn't rise. Heated air does. Heat travels from something relatively warm to something relatively cool
This probably has to do with internal component layout. Remember the incoming air is cooler so the thermal effects are it falling through the inverter.
Just a guess since I didn't engineer it.

For the ultimate in efficiency, maybe. But not necessarily for reliability.

When I was at HP, their business computers had always drawn in air from the bottom, blew out at the top. Because we all know inlet air at the bottom is cooler, and convection helps in that direction.

There is far more dust by the floor too, so that tends to pack dust onto the electronics. So they changed to opposite flow, forced air top to bottom. The fans being more powerful than convection, and consumptions of fans negligible compared to the power-hungry NMOS ASICs (I know, I helped design and analyzed power consumption.)

 

[Quattrohead]

Battery #2 has a weak cell, this is the one I would be concerned about..
Battery #5 just behaves a little differently, I have not seen it cause your system an actual problem yet.
Sungold WILL give you the run around until you give up, happened before here with flickering lights on their inverters.

 

[Hedges]

This seems to be good advice.... currently as mentioned all at 100% except #5 which is slowly slowly slowly ... moving toward 100% - now at 98.9%

this is likely what it was doing the first time I saw this happen and thought it was stuck at 96.4% ... it was probably just charging very slowly and things went a bit haywire (solar/pv production etc) causing the charging to stop. This time in in 'force charge' til I change the inverter settings.

Until the lowest cell reaches full voltage, battery can't deliver 100%.
If too low, or too many low, other cells might have reached high-voltage disconnect, but apparently that didn't happen.
Low current balancer, will take a long time.

Maybe patience is a virtue. Otherwise, charging this pack (maybe all in parallel) to a higher voltage could accelerate charging the low cell. But won't accelerate balancing, unless voltage are below balancing threshold. If this was a DIY battery we'd say to charge that cell individually.

 

[Kenny_]

For the ultimate in efficiency, maybe. But not necessarily for reliability.

When I was at HP, their business computers had always drawn in air from the bottom, blew out at the top. Because we all know inlet air at the bottom is cooler, and convection helps in that direction.

There is far more dust by the floor too, so that tends to pack dust onto the electronics. So they changed to opposite flow, forced air top to bottom. The fans being more powerful than convection, and consumptions of fans negligible compared to the power-hungry NMOS ASICs (I know, I helped design and analyzed power consumption.)

Good point about dust...and placement/installation...

 

[Kenny_]

Battery #2 has a weak cell, this is the one I would be concerned about..
Battery #5 just behaves a little differently, I have not seen it cause your system an actual problem yet.
Sungold WILL give you the run around until you give up, happened before here with flickering lights on their inverters.

Point #3 is for certain....they've been ignoring me for almost a week now on this battery thing....and this is second time I'm contacted them about this battery problem.

Definitely will not / would not recommend them at this point.

 

[Kenny_]

Just for fun, my SA overview for the last 24 hours:

 

[rosscat3]

Just for fun, my SA overview for the last 24 hours:

View attachment 182660

And this is kind of a random comment, but hey...

I'm not liking how the 10K48 inverter fans/cooling is working.

The fans blow the hot air out the BOTTOM....that's ridiculous... heat rises, it should flow from bottom to top not fight thermodynamics!

Hello I am a new member and my first post I thank you now for sending me in the right direction. I recently bought a Sungold sp10k48.I have lived off grid for 24 years nearest power is a mile so the generator is my utility. my problem is the dry contacts will not start the generator it seems like the relays stuck the norm open and the norm closed does not seem to change no matter what I do with the settings just wondering if anyone has had this problem. I didn't know how to post for this or start a new thread any help would be great

 

[Kenny_]

I have no clue experience with the dry contacts or using a generator with this setup..
Maybe someone here does though!

 

[rosscat3]

I am hoping that someone could do a continuity test on there dry contacts to see if there working. I would think even if you were on real utility power the dry contacts would work as though it was a generator

 

[rosscat3]

dry contacts would be pin 5-6 no when not charging from utility or solar

 

[rosscat3]

Correct but mine seems to be nc all the time I'm wondering if one setting is canceling the other out some how?

 

[42OhmsPA]

dry contacts would be pin 5-6 no when not charging from utility or solar

Let me see what I can check on my SRNE later. What would you like metered and what settings set?

 

[42OhmsPA]

dry contacts would be pin 5-6 no when not charging from utility or solar

I assume you have the same info on your manual?

 

[Kenny_]

Batteries way more 'equal' this morning....feeling a bit better since the 'full charge.'
also heard from Cindy Lou Who asking me to check each battery after next full charge
for SOC, FCC, and RM, cell voltage of each cell in all five batteries etc etc.... endless delay, questions, more for me to do instead of providing service....they're like Trump lawyers, delay, delay, delay!! I'm sick of it! I'm not happy with their approach to customer service and Cannot, willnot, will actively advise potential customers to avoid Sungold.

anyway here is my SA battery screen from this morning:

 

[Kenny_]

So I'm happy with my batteries at this point. Looks like they just needed a good swift kick in the butt from the grid!! (i.e. a good full charging).

 

[#40Fan]

That does look a lot better.