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diy solar

Is your payback too expensive?

4

400bird

Solar Wizard
Joined
May 23, 2020
Messages
3,701
Location
California
Yesterday, the SO was whining about how expensive payback on the system was.

I decided to do some math; I've mentioned Ohmconnect before.
She's been enjoying the $$ but didn't understand it, so I just did the math for the first time.
For one hour, I set the XW 6848 to output 27 amps (@240 vac), so about 6500 watts.

For pushing 6 or so KW back to the grid they paid me about $10
Well, $10 in an Amazon card, close enough.
That is $1.67 / kWh !!!
(don't let her ask what the battery cost per kWh)

Points earned in one hour/6kWh: 6,292
Screenshot_20220715-192433~2.png


Gift card redemption: 5,960 points
Screenshot_20220715-192452~2.png

Last summer they ran a special hour with extra bonus, I earned 64,660 points for pushing about 6 kw back to the grid. Yeah, like $100 ($16/kWh)!
They paid us enough last year to send us a 1099, everyone wants a cut :rolleyes:

That still helps the payback significantly and she's slightly less bothered by this hobby.
She was quite bothered when I asked if she wanted to get the kickback for referring her friends. Oh well, I was so close to getting out of the dog house, lol


1657926510778.png
 
Last edited:
400bird said:
Yesterday, the SO was whining about how expensive payback on the system was.

I decided to do some math; I've mentioned Ohmconnect before.
She's been enjoying the $$ but didn't understand it, so I just did the math for the first time.
For one hour, I set the XW 6848 to output 27 amps (@240 vac), so about 6500 watts.

For pushing 6 or so KW back to the grid they paid me about $10
Well, $10 in an Amazon card, close enough.
That is $1.67 / kWh !!!
(don't let her ask what the battery cost per kWh)

Points earned in one hour/6kWh: 6,292
View attachment 102692


Gift card redemption: 5,960 points
View attachment 102691

Last summer they ran a special hour with extra bonus, I earned 64,660 points for pushing about 6 kw back to the grid. Yeah, like $100 ($16/kWh)!
They paid us enough last year to send us a 1099, everyone wants a cut :rolleyes:

That still helps the payback significantly and she's slightly less bothered by this hobby.
She was quite bothered when I asked if she wanted to get the kickback for referring her friends. Oh well, I was so close to getting out of the dog house, lol


View attachment 102693
Click to expand...
You are doing the smart thing building a system. To justify its cost VS it’s payback is tricky. Your buying it in todays (yesterdays) dollars but it will become a hedge against what Gona happen in the future and “ it’s “ dollar. Does anyone really think that electricity is going to remain where it is..?
The day of .12- .16 cents per kWh in most places is soon going the way of 2 dollar gas.. They are already prepping us for power outages ..they are grooming the public for what’s coming..
compare what you spend today to the guy with no backup system,when electricity is 10x higher (Venezuela )... or maybe your social score isnt high enough to qualify to even hook up to the grid….( hello China). And etc..etc..

It’s a new world coming our way.. and who ever controls the energy will control all else…
just get it working , don’t worry what it cost… it will be priceless one day.
call me crazy , but I will have power ….…... Jim.
 
Jim H said:
You are doing the smart thing building a system. To justify its cost VS it’s payback is tricky. Your buying it in todays (yesterdays) dollars but it will become a hedge against what Gona happen in the future and “ it’s “ dollar. Does anyone really think that electricity is going to remain where it is..?
The day of .12- .16 cents per kWh in most places is soon going the way of 2 dollar gas.. They are already prepping us for power outages ..they are grooming the public for what’s coming..
compare what you spend today to the guy with no backup system,when electricity is 10x higher (Venezuela )... or maybe your social score isnt high enough to qualify to even hook up to the grid….( hello China). And etc..etc..

It’s a new world coming our way.. and who ever controls the energy will control all else…
just get it working , don’t worry what it cost… it will be priceless one day.
call me crazy , but I will have power ….…... Jim.
Click to expand...

They will come and take your panels. And guns, etc.

You will own nothing and be Happy!
 
I see now that the screenshots didn't post originally, I just went back and edited it, my mistake.
 
Danke said:
They will come and take your panels. And guns, etc.

You will own nothing and be Happy!
Click to expand...
That statement make quite a few assumptions that are possibly incorrect…but we will just let it slide…thanks anyway…Jim.
 
Jeez I read halfway through the Bible length user agreement and in summation it does not seem to address Solar.
It seems to be mostly a California based system that is working in conjunction with the power companies.
You must agree to cut your electricity usage when you get a push notification. Points are awarded by how much you reduce your consumption. If you do not comply to the requests three times or something like that in a three month period you can be booted from the program. I cannot find anything on a KWh rate that they payout. It also seems like they would like some sort of control on your thermostats but I am not sure if that is mandatory.
It's just way too much user agreement stuff for me to read but while the $1.66 rate seems unreal this could be like the airlines giving you thousands of dollars for giving up your seat. IOW this rate may be variable and depend on how desperate they are to reduce the load on the Grid. I think the OP sending back power to the Grid might have been a loop hole that they have not yet plugged. So yeah if you have Solar and Batteries this could create some extra cash.
 
Wow. That’s amazing. Interconnections are not affordable in Tennessee. The administrative fee is $140/month to maintain the interconnect and the TVA only pays $.01/kWh for only two years, no-payment or credit after the two year mark of interconnection signature. Then there is this fun statement in the agreement:

“Islanding” may be permitted on a case by case basis subject to prior approval of the Cooperative’s General Manager/CEO.

Anyway, easier to get an electrical permit to build an off grid system with storage and just use grid to charge batteries if needed.
 
I read complaints on here about posters not getting notifications, it's never happened to me before. Very odd, I normally get a few notifications per day... I must have just missed this one.

robby said:
Jeez I read halfway through the Bible length user agreement and in summation it does not seem to address Solar.
Click to expand...
Nope, they don't care. In the FAQ they used to spell out the original theory was to lower your usage. But, if you pushed more solar power out than usual they would pay out exactly the same.
It's about the change in usage.
If you normal use 6 kw per hour (during the selected time frame over the past 10 days)
and use 0 kWh during the home hour

That would look exactly the same to them and get the same pay out as my normal 100-240 watt pushed to the grid bumping up to 6kwh pushed to the grid.

robby said:
It seems to be mostly a California based system that is working in conjunction with the power companies.
Click to expand...
Correct, the power companies have to opt in. I believe they are CA, NY, and TX only.
robby said:
You must agree to cut your electricity usage when you get a push notification.
Click to expand...
Text and/or email
No apps and no push notifications, not sure if that matters to you.
robby said:
Points are awarded by how much you reduce your consumption. If you do not comply to the requests three times or something like that in a three month period you can be booted from the program. I cannot find anything on a KWh rate that they payout. It also seems like they would like some sort of control on your thermostats but I am not sure if that is mandatory.
Click to expand...
Opt in, not mandatory.
You can also let them turn off some smart plugs.
In the screenshots, you can see the little bonus "Four devices participated" that's 1 thermostat and 3 smart plugs.
robby said:
It's just way too much user agreement stuff for me to read but while the $1.66 rate seems unreal this could be like the airlines giving you thousands of dollars for giving up your seat. IOW this rate may be variable and depend on how desperate they are to reduce the load on the Grid. I think the OP sending back power to the Grid might have been a loop hole that they have not yet plugged. So yeah if you have Solar and Batteries this could create some extra cash.
Click to expand...
They seem to refigure the rates every winter and are mostly just active during the summer. But, between last year and this, no major changes for me.

I believe the company is loosely classified as a virtual power plant. The don't make any energy (normally, lol) but by collective reducing consumption they get to the same place.

I had another event last Friday and earned another $10ish

Screenshot_20220719-220724.png
 
With the recent high temps, there have been more events.
The results from Monday just came in. I earned about $90 pushing power to the grid for 2 hours!
My inverter maxes out at about 6kw pushed to the grid. So in two hours, I would have been able to push out 12 kWh.

That comes out to $7.50/kWh
The downside is that $20 of that is a Starbucks card. Not very useful for me. But, I'll take the kids for a smoothie or something cold one day after school, it's their payment for playing along and not complaining when the house gets warm.
 
400bird said:
With the recent high temps, there have been more events.
The results from Monday just came in. I earned about $90 pushing power to the grid for 2 hours!
My inverter maxes out at about 6kw pushed to the grid. So in two hours, I would have been able to push out 12 kWh.

That comes out to $7.50/kWh
The downside is that $20 of that is a Starbucks card. Not very useful for me. But, I'll take the kids for a smoothie or something cold one day after school, it's their payment for playing along and not complaining when the house gets warm.
Click to expand...
Sounds like it's time for more inverting power
 
houseofancients said:
man, that is a tinhat statement..
while i agree powercompanies are doing everything they can to protect their interest and profit, there aint much they can to a non connected battery junkie ;)
Click to expand...
Haaaa…I like that .. a tin hat statement ….at first I was sorta freaked too., but it seems he was sorta joking … he cool….so it’s all good.
 
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