Neutral ground bond totally off grid w generator and reliable inverter

[timselectric]

But I would also switch the wires at the output terminals. So that the labels are correct.

 

[Wattsinwattsout]

Did you replace the ground connection, afterwards?
If so, then you should keep the black and red switched. Because of the board arrangement. In combination with adding a N/G bond.

Yes, I cut the board and case ground to prove a concept. It now has the case and board grounded. It reacts the same and no more than 0.2v earth ground drain. The issue is the outlet (reverse polarity), if you use it while using the terminal bus and earth ground it is not a good idea. It also makes the neutral tap on the circuit board hot whereas it should be neutral.

 

[Wattsinwattsout]

But I would also switch the wires at the output terminals. So that the labels are correct.

One could also de solder the outlet and re solder the wires correctly then the terminal will read correct. This should have been done at the factory. The factory should send them out with the terminal connections white (neutral), Black (hot), and green (ground) with a red a possible L2 connection for split phase. This would make it user friendly.

 

[Wattsinwattsout]

I am wiring up a breaker box for an off grid cabin. No grid power of any sort on the property at all.

Do I bond neutral and ground in the breaker box? The ground will be wired to an 8' copper rod outside. I read some other posts and they said adding a generator complicates things, weather the generator also bonds ground and neutral or not. Also weather the inverter bonds neutral and ground or not. There will be a transfer switch to change from solar to generator power.

I watched a video where the reliable inverter popped the internal fuses because the neutral and ground where bonded.

How do I check to see if the generator, and or the inverter are bonded?

The generator is a predator 4550 inverter style, and the dc to ac inverter is a 3000 watt 24v reliable.

Check this out it sounds like you have the same issue. I am building a system like yours and have the WZRELB inverter.

WZRELB Reliable Inverter 60v + 60v polarity issue. Ground and neutral have 60v?

If you own a WZRELB Reliable inverter you should do a quick safety test for continuity between the terminal bus hot and the case outlet hot connections. If these are not wired correctly you can have a cross feed of power to the neutral terminal bus and if that is connected to earth ground it...

diysolarforum.com

 

[SeanWatts]

Check this out it sounds like you have the same issue. I am building a system like yours and have the WZRELB inverter.

WZRELB Reliable Inverter 60v + 60v polarity issue. Ground and neutral have 60v?

If you own a WZRELB Reliable inverter you should do a quick safety test for continuity between the terminal bus hot and the case outlet hot connections. If these are not wired correctly you can have a cross feed of power to the neutral terminal bus and if that is connected to earth ground it...

diysolarforum.com

Awesome! Thanks for the info!

I will check out my inverter and see if I need to swap the red and black cables.

By disconnecting those ground wires on your white inverter, you have disconnected the neutral ground connection at the inverter, so that you can bond them at the breaker box, correct?

Do I need to disconnect the ground wires at the inverter too?

My generator has a neutral ground bond too, so I figured I would leave my inverter bonded as well since I would only be running one or the other, never both at the same time (transfer switch). Then I would just run a ground wire from both the inverter and generator to the ground rod.

 

[timselectric]

One could also de solder the outlet and re solder the wires correctly then the terminal will read correct. This should have been done at the factory. The factory should send them out with the terminal connections white (neutral), Black (hot), and green (ground) with a red a possible L2 connection for split phase. This would make it user friendly.

The Chinese don't understand our electrical system. lol
What I was getting at was that the red and black don't mean anything to a floating system. It only matters if you connect one to ground. Which they done at the board. And you did in the panel. With both, it does matter. So with the board ground and your N/G bond, switching the wires is the only way to make it safe.
If I had known that you were going to reattach the board ground. I wouldn't even had said anything.
But, it has been a fun conversation. Talking to someone who understands what they are doing.
Cheers

 

[Wattsinwattsout]

Awesome! Thanks for the info!

I will check out my inverter and see if I need to swap the red and black cables.

By disconnecting those ground wires on your white inverter, you have disconnected the neutral ground connection at the inverter, so that you can bond them at the breaker box, correct?

Do I need to disconnect the ground wires at the inverter too?

My generator has a neutral ground bond too, so I figured I would leave my inverter bonded as well since I would only be running one or the other, never both at the same time (transfer switch). Then I would just run a ground wire from both the inverter and generator to the ground rod.

No all you have to do is switch the wires “IF” the outlet polarity is incorrect. I disconnected the ground to prove the center tap split phase was not correct.
You can connect the earth ground to this unit if the polarity is correct on the outlet and the terminal bus. There is 0.1v (probably static form the heat sinks) between earth ground and the circuit board. The video cuts off but I uploaded another short one to my channel.
If you connect your earth ground at a panel and bond the neutral then you do not need to connect a ground wire to the inverter case. It is already connected via the terminal bus.

 

[Wattsinwattsout]

The Chinese don't understand our electrical system. lol
What I was getting at was that the red and black don't mean anything to a floating system. It only matters if you connect one to ground. Which they done at the board. And you did in the panel. With both, it does matter. So with the board ground and your N/G bond, switching the wires is the only way to make it safe.
If I had known that you were going to reattach the board ground. I wouldn't even had said anything.
But, it has been a fun conversation. Talking to someone who understands what they are doing.
Cheers

No problem, it never hurts to open up conversations for better clarity and learn if something is missing from an issue. Or it wasn’t explained very well and should be cleared up. Thanks for the kind reply.

These are great inverters and even with this issue people have been running them 24/7 for years.

The white unit was purchased on Amazon for $242 used but good. I sent it back with a note that the polarity is incorrect. I already have a black newer model 3000w 24v inverter running 24/7 at my cabin but I did not earth ground it yet. I used the terminal bus to supply one outlet to run my full size fridge. The wife insisted we not load up and unload coolers of food every trip so I found a free fridge on Facebook and cleaned it up. Luckily I haven’t plugged anything into the inverter outlet so the fridge is good aside from no earth ground. I will be taking care of that shortly when I install my 5000w inverter and transfer switch for my generator.

 

[Supervstech]

It's AC power. There is no polarity.
You can switch them back, to verify.

While true, the neutral is bonded to earth, the hot should NEVER be on the neutral side...

 

[timselectric]

While true, the neutral is bonded to earth, the hot should NEVER be on the neutral side...

If it's bonded, yes.
If not, there's no difference between the two.