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New Lux Power LXP-LB-US 12k / GSL-H-12KLV-US with 200A AC Passthrough Current (US Market)

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I did do some load testing with 2 eg4 chargeverters And a 4500w 240v heater and I was able to get over 12kw

So my last observation was false.

On the other hand, what I think, I was noticing earlier with my plazma cuter was the inverter couldn't handle the change in load. I wasn't even going over 12kw total draw.

This was confirmed by my load testing
When pulling 11kw from the inverter if I turn off the 4500w heater the inverter would trip. Also if I tried to turn on the second eg4 chargers well one of the eg4 chargeverters was running both set to 75 charging amps it would also trip the inverter.

The inverter shows no alarms, or gives an explanation for why it tripped

I am working with luxpowertek on this.
They are on it.

Keep in mind this is strictly off grid.

I get the feeling this inverter was mainly tested on grid. And should work quite well for that application.

Let's make this work. ?
Balance both legs if using on off grid application…
 
Solar Assistant now fully supports Luxpower inverters: https://solar-assistant.io/explore/luxpower#hero

The inverter supports the GSL Lithonia batteries. Solar Assistant doesn't list support for GSL batteries. Is there a way to monitor the GSL batteries with Solar Assistant?
I've been using Solar Assistant with my GSL inverter for a few weeks now. By default, Solar Assistant will pass through battery stats as provided by the inverter. When using it in this way, the battery does not need to be directly supported by Solar Assistant. However, Solar Assistant provides the option to instead read battery stats directly from the battery via CAN/RS485, ignoring whatever the inverter is reporting (if anything at all).

In my case, I have purchased the (very specific) USB/CAN cable tapped in to the connection between my battery and inverter to sniff the CAN communication. I have yet to notice any real benefit to doing it this way. Please note, I have communication between the two set as Pylon protocol, and I'm not sure what the GSL batteries use or support.

Maybe the inverter battery reporting is enough for your use case?
 
I'm having a hard time understanding how a center tap transformer would help with 240v surges.

I don't think it does.

You would think that energy stored in magnetic core of a transformer would help kick over a heavy load, like supply the surge needed to start a motor. However, the total energy it is capable of storing is vanishingly small.

If you look up a "Line Tamer" or similar ferro-resonant transformer, which can keep delivering AC for a couple cycles when the line drops out, it is quite massive (100 lb or so) for maybe 250W rating.

The energy stored in an inductor like a transformer is integral of current over time, or maybe that minus resistive losses. A transformer that can carry 100A in a 240V primary (25kVA) when secondary is delivering same kVA, only carries about 0.5A no-load. So it might have enough energy stored to deliver 120W for 8 milliseconds. If you apply more voltage, the current shoots up as the core saturates; it can't hold any more energy.

(Same goes for common-mode chokes. If they have a rated differential current of 1A, for common mode current they saturate below 10 mA.

Transformer current waveforms driven at nominal voltage and 50% of nominal:


I use a Variac to drive transformers and chokes into saturation. In some cases I was able to plot the characteristic "S" shaped BH curve, but other times I got loops that crossed over at the end, couldn't make sense of them. Objective was to make SPICE models.

I think the surge capability of an inverter is not so much due to LF vs. HF architecture, rather the current it was designed to deliver.
There are some things about boost converter that would particularly limit current, but the new Midnight Rosie shows it is possible to have high sustained surge current from an HF design.

Given AC of unlimited capacity driving a transformer, nominal rated current is usually what causes about 6% voltage drop in windings, from +3% to -3% of rated voltage. Short circuit current could be about 17x rated current, which is where voltage drop brings output to zero volts.

An inverter with beefy FETs directly driving a transformer (e.g. square wave or MSW) might provide such surge. the early Trace were apparently such MSW design but with multiple winding taps for several different voltage steps. I could imagine that delivering very high surge.

Nothing to do with energy stored in the magnetic field, however.
 
I don't think it does.

You would think that energy stored in magnetic core of a transformer would help kick over a heavy load, like supply the surge needed to start a motor. However, the total energy it is capable of storing is vanishingly small.

If you look up a "Line Tamer" or similar ferro-resonant transformer, which can keep delivering AC for a couple cycles when the line drops out, it is quite massive (100 lb or so) for maybe 250W rating.

The energy stored in an inductor like a transformer is integral of current over time, or maybe that minus resistive losses. A transformer that can carry 100A in a 240V primary (25kVA) when secondary is delivering same kVA, only carries about 0.5A no-load. So it might have enough energy stored to deliver 120W for 8 milliseconds. If you apply more voltage, the current shoots up as the core saturates; it can't hold any more energy.

(Same goes for common-mode chokes. If they have a rated differential current of 1A, for common mode current they saturate below 10 mA.

Transformer current waveforms driven at nominal voltage and 50% of nominal:


I use a Variac to drive transformers and chokes into saturation. In some cases I was able to plot the characteristic "S" shaped BH curve, but other times I got loops that crossed over at the end, couldn't make sense of them. Objective was to make SPICE models.

I think the surge capability of an inverter is not so much due to LF vs. HF architecture, rather the current it was designed to deliver.
There are some things about boost converter that would particularly limit current, but the new Midnight Rosie shows it is possible to have high sustained surge current from an HF design.

Given AC of unlimited capacity driving a transformer, nominal rated current is usually what causes about 6% voltage drop in windings, from +3% to -3% of rated voltage. Short circuit current could be about 17x rated current, which is where voltage drop brings output to zero volts.

An inverter with beefy FETs directly driving a transformer (e.g. square wave or MSW) might provide such surge. the early Trace were apparently such MSW design but with multiple winding taps for several different voltage steps. I could imagine that delivering very high surge.

Nothing to do with energy stored in the magnetic field, however.

Thanks for that in-depth reply.

I'm just surmising

Could it be that when a motor starts it is a capacitiv load because of the start capasitor an the legging of the transformer indutive load helps to return the power factor closer to 1?

There for the power is more efficiency used?

I may sound like I know what I'm talking about, but I know that I don't really know.
 
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I think the surge capability of an inverter is not so much due to LF vs. HF architecture, rather the current it was designed to deliver.
There are some things about boost converter that would particularly limit current, but the new Midnight Rosie shows it is possible to have high sustained surge current from an HF design.

I agree it's current delivery limited but I think it's very much due to some fundamental differences between LF and HF architectures. Specifically, I think the issue is that balanced dynamic current sharing through the components in the inverter power chain is more difficult in the HF architecture. The boost converter stage only exists in the HF architecture. Furthermore, the common/cheaper HF boost converter topology is push-pull where MOSFET's are driven in avalanche mode under full voltage stress every high frequency switching cycle likely with current sharing imbalance across parallel MOSFET's. In addition, multiple small and likely unmatched transformers are paralleled potentially causing further current sharing imbalance. Dynamic current sharing in this manner is risky and prone to failure under high surge current demand where one MOSFET failure (usually over-temperature from high current) almost guarantees a chain reaction failure of all MOSFET's in parallel. In contrast, LF architecture uses full H-bridge topology so the MOSFET's don't experience nearly as much voltage or current stress and there is only a single large transformer resulting in less serious current sharing imbalance problems.

There are certainly HF inverters (e.g. EV inverters) that support high surge capability but they use full H-bridge based topologies in the boost converter along with fewer/larger carefully matched transformers. I suspect Rosie also uses full H-bridge topology.
 
So just a side note, I was looking into this inverter and reached out to GSL just to see if they had any in stock or the batteries that are compatible with it. They don't have any inverters in stock and suggested I reach out to Lux power directly for their distributors. Not sure they'll be getting anymore in stock the sales guy said. Also, I found out that the GSL 14.34KW Powerwall battery system (gsl-051280A-B-GBP2) is in stock, it's UL9540A tested and will soon be tested for UL9540 certification with Lux Power LXP-LB-US 12k and Sol-Ark he said. He didn't specify a model of Sol-Ark. But he quoted me 2650 + 721 DDP home shipping for the Powerwall. He is supposed to let me know when the testing is done. I thought that might be of interest to anyone looking to grid tie with batteries in a restrictive state. I reached out through Alibaba.
 
I agree it's current delivery limited but I think it's very much due to some fundamental differences between LF and HF architectures. Specifically, I think the issue is that balanced dynamic current sharing through the components in the inverter power chain is more difficult in the HF architecture. The boost converter stage only exists in the HF architecture. Furthermore, the common/cheaper HF boost converter topology is push-pull where MOSFET's are driven in avalanche mode under full voltage stress every high frequency switching cycle likely with current sharing imbalance across parallel MOSFET's. In addition, multiple small and likely unmatched transformers are paralleled potentially causing further current sharing imbalance. Dynamic current sharing in this manner is risky and prone to failure under high surge current demand where one MOSFET failure (usually over-temperature from high current) almost guarantees a chain reaction failure of all MOSFET's in parallel. In contrast, LF architecture uses full H-bridge topology so the MOSFET's don't experience nearly as much voltage or current stress and there is only a single large transformer resulting in less serious current sharing imbalance problems.

There are certainly HF inverters (e.g. EV inverters) that support high surge capability but they use full H-bridge based topologies in the boost converter along with fewer/larger carefully matched transformers. I suspect Rosie also uses full H-bridge topology.
Oh now that makes sense. I see. Good post.

And good point hedges made about total energy stored in the transformer.

Good thread. I had this wrong all along.
 
So just a side note, I was looking into this inverter and reached out to GSL just to see if they had any in stock or the batteries that are compatible with it. They don't have any inverters in stock and suggested I reach out to Lux power directly for their distributors. Not sure they'll be getting anymore in stock the sales guy said. Also, I found out that the GSL 14.34KW Powerwall battery system (gsl-051280A-B-GBP2) is in stock, it's UL9540A tested and will soon be tested for UL9540 certification with Lux Power LXP-LB-US 12k and Sol-Ark he said. He didn't specify a model of Sol-Ark. But he quoted me 2650 + 721 DDP home shipping for the Powerwall. He is supposed to let me know when the testing is done. I thought that might be of interest to anyone looking to grid tie with batteries in a restrictive state. I reached out through Alibaba.
Wow, fantastic price for the 14.3. I was quoted 3700 6wks ago
 
Wow, fantastic price for the 14.3. I was quoted 3700 6wks ago
I bought (2) 14.31 KW Powerwall batteries from GSL at $3860 each early January. Paid in full promised batteries mid February, but not ready until mid-March, which is when I had hoped to receive the shipment. After the delay, I should had received shipment mid-April, but GSL has managed to delay the shipment till mid-May. The delays were because GSL used a slower ship that took an extra 2 weeks and sent container to another port. Told that the cargo will be delivered to the port that I requested. I was told that shipping charges were $420 to the correct port. However, GSL sending it to another port cost me $420 plus an additional $436 to get it to the correct port. Yesterday, we were contacted that the shipment is at the correct port and ready for pickup. So far, nothing that Nick Pan has told me was true. At this point I still concern if there are batteries in the cargo and if so, are they the correct batteries.
 
I bought (2) 14.31 KW Powerwall batteries from GSL at $3860 each early January. Paid in full promised batteries mid February, but not ready until mid-March, which is when I had hoped to receive the shipment. After the delay, I should had received shipment mid-April, but GSL has managed to delay the shipment till mid-May. The delays were because GSL used a slower ship that took an extra 2 weeks and sent container to another port. Told that the cargo will be delivered to the port that I requested. I was told that shipping charges were $420 to the correct port. However, GSL sending it to another port cost me $420 plus an additional $436 to get it to the correct port. Yesterday, we were contacted that the shipment is at the correct port and ready for pickup. So far, nothing that Nick Pan has told me was true. At this point I still concern if there are batteries in the cargo and if so, are they the correct batteries.

I'm guessing that wasn't with the DDP home shipping? I'm told that's the way you want to order for the least trouble.
 
I'm guessing that wasn't with the DDP home shipping? I'm told that's the way you want to order for the least trouble.
I tried to get DDP, but was told repeatedly that it is not available in Panama by sea ... only by air. I used DDP for the 2 inverters and sent them by air, but UPS said GSL (Nick Pan) did not include shipping from Panama City to my home another 270+ km to Santiago. Nick Pan said that shipping to my home was included, but UPS said it wasn't. Bottom line, I had to pay for shipping from Panama City to my home. GSL can even screwup DDP.
 
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I tried to get DDP, but was told repeatedly that it is not available in Panama by sea ... only by air. I used DDP for the 2 inverters and sent them by air, but UPS said GSL (Nick Pan) did not include shipping from Panama City to my home another 270+ km to Santiago. Nick Pan said that shipping to my home was included, but UPS said it wasn't. Bottom line, I had to pay for shipping from Panama City to my home. GSL can even screwup DDP.
Wow.. and when you kindly ask their response, they don't fold over backwards I assume, since they already have your money ?
 
GSL advertise 10% deposit and 15 days delivery, but I was told 100% and 30 days delivery, but took over 60 days for delivery. Delivery means FOB onto a ship in China. https://www.gsl-energy.com/gsl-ener...thium-tesla-solar-home-48-v-powerwall-solar-s
In my case the batteries were not in stock and they knew nothing about shipping to Panama. From my experience I will not buy again from GSL. If the batteries are in stock, and you live in either USA or Canada, follow tacomaguy20 advice and buy the batteries from GSL with shipment using DDP. The only other caution is make sure the agreement is 15-21 days otherwise if longer, they won't hesitate to take the full time on the agreement.
 
Replying to the stories mentioned regarding the pricing and shipping issues experienced by @Not Aerosmith and @tacomaguy20 with GSL, I'm sorry to hear about your unfortunate experiences.
But also we kindly request your understanding as to why we have strict control over the end-user price.

We have made the difficult decision to restrict our business partnerships to local distributors only and no longer engage with trading companies in China. This is not a reflection on any specific companies like GSL, as we maintain a good relationship with them for working with GSL batteries. However, it is necessary for us to ensure reliable local service and fair competition with US sellers. This product holds more significance than just being a typical product for most users (maybe DIY enthusiasts don't really care). It includes a substantial value of service.
When determining the product price, we had two important considerations. First, we aimed to make it as affordable as possible for users, avoiding excessive pricing. Second, we sought to strike a balance that allows distributors and installers to earn a reasonable profit. By doing so, we can sustain a long and healthy presence in the market, even beyond the 10-year warranty period for our users. Otherwise, if we don't take these measures, it is highly likely that many users in need of service will have difficulty finding either LuxPower or authorized dealers.
 
Greetings,

Finally figured out what I want.....

Will the TIGO TS4-A-O 700w 15A optomizers work with this 12k? If not; which ones will and are they better??
Planning on using solar assistant....or if there is anything better, let me know

Thanks
 
Greetings,

Finally figured out what I want.....

Will the TIGO TS4-A-O 700w 15A optomizers work with this 12k? If not; which ones will and are they better??
Planning on using solar assistant....or if there is anything better, let me know

Thanks

Optimizers may not be all they are cracked up to be. But they do provide data for per-panel monitoring.
Do you have a need for optimizer rather than just RSD?

I think with SolArk you wire its signaling relay enable an external (e.g. Tigo) keep-alive transmitter. And wire RSD button to an input of SolArk.
 
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