Just top balanced my seventh set of four LF280N cells from Jenny Wu and they are really looking good, doing a run down test to see how they do at the bottom.
Yup, at 3.5v per cell they are over 99% full and it takes very little additional current to bring them to 3.65v. If they are at slightly different state-of-charge, the cell voltages will scatter. My solution: don't press them above 3.4v. That little bit of extra capacity isn't worth the trouble. I don't press them at the low end either, if you're buying cheap grade B cells that have slightly different capacities the solution to low end trouble is to buy more cells. My install is for off-grid and sits in the basement, a mobile install may be more worried about getting maximum capacity out of the volume and weight of the cells. But giving up the last 5% of capacity makes things much easier.Browneye said: When the battery voltage surpasses 14.0 or 3.5Vpc, then see where they're at.
The issue for top balance is at high-knee, when the battery is full, and one or more cells reaches over 3.65Vpc.
Alternatively, at near zero SOC, where one or more cell is completely depleted and falling off in voltage.
My solution: don't press them above 3.4v.
This is the crux of the matter. Don't take them to the point where balancing will happen, but if it does, start balancing right at the knee. I think I have decided to keep my cells below 3.35v unless I want to rebalance them, in which case I will have the equalize voltage set at 3.55v. I can manually start an equalize cycle when I want to, then stop it when I see the current fall off. I don't expect to have to balance more than a few times a year.Nothing happens till the cell reaches 3.45v
You make a number of good suggestions. But an NPN driven by a comparator, all operating from the voltage provided from a single cell, that is the simplest and cheapest solution I see so far. Is there a reason it might not work?Hedges wrote: I use bipolar a lot, but there are gate drive IC for MOSFET.
The top balance was stopped at 3.64@ 1.5amps and I had no runners, all cells were within .002 at the end. The screen shot was as I started the draw down the day after the top balance. Mine are mobile as well and used every day.Balance at that voltage level is pretty easy to achieve. When the battery voltage surpasses 14.0 or 3.5Vpc, then see where they're at.
The issue for top balance is at high-knee, when the battery is full, and one or more cells reaches over 3.65Vpc.
Alternatively, at near zero SOC, where one or more cell is completely depleted and falling off in voltage.
My Docan-sourced cells look like yours throughout the whole charge range, however as the cells charge past 3.55 one or more will start to run. I set charging voltage at 14.1 or 14.2 CV, and terminate charging at 5% of amp capacity. This keeps them from over-volting and the bms shutting down charging. Active balance on the JBD happens over 3.4Vpc at a delta of 10mV or greater. SCC is set for 14.1 CV boost with a max duration of ten minutes. A high float - 13.6V, supports active loads when present. The battery stays full unless there are larger loads, or after sun-down.
My cells are mobile, so when the unit is stored or parked, a lower SCC parameters settings lets the battery float down to 50-70% SOC.
The top balance was stopped at 3.64@ 1.5amps and I had no runners, all cells were within .002 at the end. The screen shot was as I started the draw down the day after the top balance. Mine are mobile as well and used every day.
This is just before finishing the top balance, still drawing a couple amps.
It is not, I have about a .005 voltage drop to the cells, at this point they are about 3.64vHopefully, the 3.69v displayed on the power supply is wrong.
I am at 2P16S, on a single JBD BMS. The 200ma passive balance doesn't quite cut it since different cells ask for balancing depending on charge state. But your experience suggests my distributed dump scheme could back off from the 5A I postulated. Putting a 1 or 2 ohm resistor across my worst problem cell for a few minutes would verify.The top balance was stopped at 3.64@ 1.5amps and I had no runners, all cells were within .002 at the end. The screen shot was as I started the draw down the day after the top balance. Mine are mobile as well and used every day.
I wasn't planning on a darlington pair of NPN's, they would not have collectors tied together. The one up front would have a separate collector resistor to Vcc. Your PNP up front would also work.Don't want the voltage drop of Darlington, instead use PNP to pull up the gate.
The cells rest on the two pieces of all thread on the bottom, this gives me heating and cooling space below the cells when mounted to my vibration dampers.I am at 2P16S, on a single JBD BMS. The 200ma passive balance doesn't quite cut it since different cells ask for balancing depending on charge state. But your experience suggests my distributed dump scheme could back off from the 5A I postulated. Putting a 1 or 2 ohm resistor across my worst problem cell for a few minutes would verify.
I have a similar scheme for the compression pack. However, I am 16 cells long and 2 cells wide. Each end is 3/4" plywood, reinforced with two horizontal runs of angle iron, drilled out for the rods. Have 6 such rods, two down the middle using red 80x30mm die springs, the four outside rods each under half the tension using yellow 80x30mm die springs. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GSNCYNK Ends are high enough to mount the BMS plus heavy lugs for power to the inverter/charger on the inside surface of those 3/4" end plates. A piece of fire proof cementboard across the top to keep tools from falling in amongst the terminals. A 600A fuse (came with the BMS) at the positive end of the series string, can't be in the middle or it will interfere with the cell voltage readings that the BMS sees. (Also have a 175A breaker up by the inverter.)
Not obvious what your two bottom rods without the die springs are doing. I just put everything on a plywood base. Am using materials at hand, welded short 1/2" bolts to 1/2" rebar for the rods, far end of the rebar is drilled out for a pin and washer.
Could be my 200ma passive balance is sufficient, and all I need to do is increase the voltage at which the balance engages. The system spent a lot of time at 3.4v per cell (or less) due to cloudy weather, and that would definitely contribute.I am at 2P16S, on a single JBD BMS. The 200ma passive balance doesn't quite cut it since different cells ask for balancing depending on charge state. But your experience suggests my distributed dump scheme could back off from the 5A I postulated. Putting a 1 or 2 ohm resistor across my worst problem cell for a few minutes would verify.
Dumping all power into the NPN is a possibility, but makes for a more expensive NPN. A 25W wirewound resistor can be had from Mouser for a dollar. Just switching the NPN on or off is kind of crude, but I see no reason it would not work.
Hi!The top balance was stopped at 3.64@ 1.5amps and I had no runners, all cells were within .002 at the end. The screen shot was as I started the draw down the day after the top balance. Mine are mobile as well and used every day.
This is just before finishing the top balance, still drawing a couple amps.
These are what I used, they are all set at .63 inches for 160psi each it is just the angle of the photo.Hi!
Could you please send me a link to the springs you used in your fixture?
The picture's right battery seems to show them almost bottoming out, or is it just the photo's angle?
Thanks in advance
At some point it might be worth considering getting another BMS (and fuse) and splitting your battery to 16S2P. Advantages are better balancing, double the current capability, and the ability to take one battery offline for maintenance while the other one keeps working.I am at 2P16S, on a single JBD BMS.