PLEASE HELP ME. Victron system, Amperetime batteries, nothing makes any sense

[HighTechLab]

I'm really, really, really frustrated. "Self heating" are advertised as ... idk... SELF HEATING. If none of them work, why are they being produced by more and more companies?

You got what you paid for. "Sponsored by AmpereTime". Maybe ask them why.

 

[dmsims]

Self heating comes with caveats:

"Automatic Self-Heating Function: It will be auto-activated by the BMS when the battery is connected to a charger at -20℃to 5℃, will be stopped when the temperature has reached 10℃, and then the battery will be normally charged."

 

[740GLE]

try this:


View attachment 139883

A picture is 1000 words, always gotta think of current flowing like water through pipes.

 

[740GLE]

Again, this is an off grid install where I am thousands of miles away most of the time. How are you controlling a heating pad remotely? If my VE Direct cables ever show up, maybe I could add one to the AC system and remotely turn on the inverter? I don't know yet, because none of these expensive ass components ship with 50 cents worth of cables, for some fucking reason.

If you’re 1000s of miles away most of the time what is this system powering while you’re not there? Seems like it’d be best to put the system to bed when your not there. When you are there get plenty of heat in the place and you’ll have no issues running the system.

If the batteries are close to a full charge, if you disconnect everything it will hold charge till you return.

I put my cabins system to bed in Oct until May as we don’t check on it in the winter months.

 

[ImAnIdiotPleaseBePatient]

Victron gear with a budget battery. I like your style. Classic barbell strategy. Upload as many pics of all your DC/AC wiring as you can and I think we can probably help.... potty mouth ?

 

[ADDvanced]

happy st Pattie’s dudes ?

Small update. System wasn’t charging this morning. Tore off insulation and blasted side of batteries w me buddy heater. Bam. Taking charge. Harvested over 1kw of sun today, more than previous 6 days combined, ferda!

I also hooked up the CerboGX today since the vedirect cables finally showed up, still cannot believe they aren’t included w any of these components.

Am confused about the pics: why does the amperage not match from the charger to the shunt? They’re so close together w appropriate size wire gauge

 

[sunshine_eggo]

happy st Pattie’s dudes ?

Small update. System wasn’t charging this morning. Tore off insulation and blasted side of batteries w me buddy heater. Bam. Taking charge. Harvested over 1kw of sun today, more than previous 6 days combined, ferda!

I also hooked up the CerboGX today since the vedirect cables finally showed up, still cannot believe they aren’t included w any of these components.

Am confused about the pics: why does the amperage not match from the charger to the shunt? They’re so close together w appropriate size wire gauge

You are presumably using 5.8A of loads somewhere.

MPPT reports what is coming out of the MPPT.

Shunt reports the NET charge or discharge battery current.

 

[Rocketman]

happy st Pattie’s dudes ?

Small update. System wasn’t charging this morning. Tore off insulation and blasted side of batteries w me buddy heater. Bam. Taking charge. Harvested over 1kw of sun today, more than previous 6 days combined, ferda!

Here is a rhetorical question for you…

When you blasted the batteries with the Mr Heater and the solar started charging…
What were the temperatures of:
The lithium cells surface______
The middle of the lithium cell_____
The temperature probe connected to the bms____

If the middle of the cell was too cold you may be damaging the lithium cell. You NEED to read up and understand why lithium batteries do not charge below 32 degrees.

If you cannot maintain a battery temperature of 32 degrees in your setup then you either need to adapt or plan on the batteries not lasting very long.

There are many ways to adapt but perhaps lead acid batteries would be better in this situation or just shut down when in really cold weather. Now if through insulation, heaters in depth, you can maintain a proper temperature and maintain enough solar power to do useful jobs, then great!

 

[z_zk_z]

Deleted

 

[ADDvanced]

You are presumably using 5.8A of loads somewhere.

MPPT reports what is coming out of the MPPT.

Shunt reports the NET charge or discharge battery current.

Ok, thanks, but if I remove all loads, it should be identical, or just close-ish?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Ok, thanks, but if I remove all loads, it should be identical, or just close-ish?

Near identical within the measurement accuracy/calibration. The Phoenix will have a small draw if on and no loads.

 

[ADDvanced]

I don't want to jinx anything, but.... the batteries have been charging normally the past 2 days. I don't understand why they've been so obnoxious, but .... past 2 days, sun comes up, they start charging. I did build insulated boxes around them, and we did finish insulating the shed about 95% of the way. There's still work to do and I still have the terminal ends of the batteries exposed, but ..... for now.... things are working correctly.

 

[740GLE]

Are you drawing load on the batteries regularly after the sun goes down?

Also what are the ambient temps at night now?

Each of these things will help keep the heat in the battery.

 

[740GLE]

Here is a rhetorical question for you…

When you blasted the batteries with the Mr Heater and the solar started charging…
What were the temperatures of:
The lithium cells surface______
The middle of the lithium cell_____
The temperature probe connected to the bms____

If the middle of the cell was too cold you may be damaging the lithium cell. You NEED to read up and understand why lithium batteries do not charge below 32 degrees.

If you cannot maintain a battery temperature of 32 degrees in your setup then you either need to adapt or plan on the batteries not lasting very long.

There are many ways to adapt but perhaps lead acid batteries would be better in this situation or just shut down when in really cold weather. Now if through insulation, heaters in depth, you can maintain a proper temperature and maintain enough solar power to do useful jobs, then great!

If the thermal switch meets that 40ft cut off, and cells are still 20f and charging happens, I agreed some damage likely occurred.

 

[Yurtdweller]

If the thermal switch meets that 40ft cut off, and cells are still 20f and charging happens, I agreed some damage likely occurred.

Agreed. It depends on how long he 'blasted' the heat. If the sensor is located deep inside the battery(as one would expect from a pro-built) then he may be okay. If the sensor is just dropped inside the case close to the heat source, he could still be damaging cells. Not to a jerk, but how many times did we say to warm the batteries up? The internal heaters have limits. They are not infinitely powerful. I hope he can keep it running.

 

[740GLE]

He’ll prob not have another issue until next November/December ?

 

[cs1234]

He’ll prob not have another issue until next November/December ?

Everybody will have forgotten about it by then, so sounds good.

 

[ADDvanced]

Are you drawing load on the batteries regularly after the sun goes down?

Also what are the ambient temps at night now?

Each of these things will help keep the heat in the battery.

Yes, I am running 4 cameras w motion spotlights, NVR, and 4g router. It goes from 100% to around 92% every night.

Ambient temps are about 15-20 at night, and 30-50 deg during the day.

I think the big thing is I finished insulating the shed/building, AND added foam to the batteries? Also, I think they were out of balance. Charging them individually then letting them balance seemed to help a lot. They still acted stupid for a bit, but .... somehow they're working correctly now, which I can't quite explain.

 

[ADDvanced]

Agreed. It depends on how long he 'blasted' the heat. If the sensor is located deep inside the battery(as one would expect from a pro-built) then he may be okay. If the sensor is just dropped inside the case close to the heat source, he could still be damaging cells. Not to a jerk, but how many times did we say to warm the batteries up? The internal heaters have limits. They are not infinitely powerful. I hope he can keep it running.

I would blast heat at them 5-10 minutes. Yes, you guys said warm them up, but the building didn't have insulation and I don't really have room in the bus, which I also turn the heat off at night, and it gets down to about 25-30 degrees in the morning before I turn the diesel heater on. I am at high altitude in the rockies, without grid power, on a patch of dirt. Kind of hard to keep them warm in my situation.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Yes, I am running 4 cameras w motion spotlights, NVR, and 4g router. It goes from 100% to around 92% every night.

Ambient temps are about 15-20 at night, and 30-50 deg during the day.

I think the big thing is I finished insulating the shed/building, AND added foam to the batteries? Also, I think they were out of balance. Charging them individually then letting them balance seemed to help a lot. They still acted stupid for a bit, but .... somehow they're working correctly now, which I can't quite explain.

I mentioned it a few times early on in your other thread.. Imbalance behaves EXACTLY like what you saw. They aren't imbalanced anymore.

Feels like it's fully explained.

 

[ADDvanced]

Well, what's weird and that I can't explain is I charged them both, individually, for over a day. Then I let them rest. Then I hooked them up together, and it still acted stupid for the next 2 mornings. Now it seems fine tho!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

In most cases, the best practice is to actually charge the two in parallel for a couple hours.

The only uncertainty for me is how the heaters affect things.

 

[ADDvanced]

Yeah man the heaters are a total wildcard. Kind of regret getting them to be honest. I have no idea what they are doing inside with the BMS and temps and heaters. But for now, she's working.

 

[z_zk_z]

Deleted

 

[Yurtdweller]

I would blast heat at them 5-10 minutes. Yes, you guys said warm them up, but the building didn't have insulation and I don't really have room in the bus, which I also turn the heat off at night, and it gets down to about 25-30 degrees in the morning before I turn the diesel heater on. I am at high altitude in the rockies, without grid power, on a patch of dirt. Kind of hard to keep them warm in my situation.

Understood. I also do not run heat at night, so I can understand. This is one thing to consider when deciding what chemistry is best suited to a situation. I hope you can come up with a good solution. May have to invest in keeping your battery room warm, or at least one corner of it. AGM batteries might work better for you. When I ran these huge Odyssey deep cycle Agms, it was just plug and play. Nothing to think about beyond programming the controller. In heavy use situations, they wear out in a few years, but for occasional use, they can handle deep freezes exceptionally well. Their user manual has detailed specs of serious sub-freezing tests.