I've seen that but the "while on AC network" caption on the diagram suggests the ability to connect with grid-tied inverters only works while connected to the grid. Of course, such "AC Coupling" capability is available for any inverter that can connect to the grid.
Seems MPP dropped a new inverter...a split phase 10KW
- Thread starter realpinochet
- Start date
That would imply it is not grid-forming and no AC-coupled PV is available when off-grid (or grid is down).
Aside from the fact that by tieing AC-coupled PV to AC output rather than AC input / main panel provides maximum power to CLP which is the sum of grid pass-through limit of the hybrid plus the AC-coupled solar (rather than just the grid pass-through limit alone, there is no difference.
This is a nothing-burger and nothing more than marketing.
I agree.
Samsonite801
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Yeah, as Zwy clarified, the LV6548 is actually only a single leg, and is rated at 6500w, when two are serial stacked they make 13kw. Either inverter can do 0%-100% and don't spaz out when there is imbalance. MPP Solar even clarified once in an email to me a couple years ago that LV6548 are not affected by imbalance.
I think on the SolArk, even with the firmware update it's like around 4200w imbalance it trips on a specific imbalance alarm error, so putting two SolArks in parallel can lessen the odds, but that gets expensive to throw more SolArks at the problem.
Keep in mind I don't have much experience with MPP Solar split-phase-in-one-box inverters, mainly mine is seen with SolArk, since our first flock of shareholders here all have SolArks and they've all been disappointed with this issue, most of them have installed auto-transformers to help with it.
I've got one guy I've been dealing with just a couple days ago who is frustrated with his SolArk, same issue, his miter saw keeps tripping the SolArk on imbalance about 50% of the time... So surge seems to push it over the top on imbalance.
Another construction guy here wants me to wire his brick saw motor for 240v so he can run off both legs out here because he is having issues with SolArk tripping on one leg. Besides, 240v can then split the motor 14.5a load better on the surge (probably close to double that), and cuts the amps in half to 7.25a (maybe surge at 10-14a or something).
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42OhmsPA
What's in a title?
This puts a shit-eatin grin on my face knowing my SRNE had no issues while I was slamming out cuts for the battery rack. I've only had it up to 90% imbalance, no issues there either.
It feels good knowing the 'cheap' route is paying off, for now.
Why are you assuming imbalance is the issue?
Have you hooked up a surge meter to see how much surge current the grid supplies when starting that miter saw?
My guess is that that miter saw needs everything the inverter can supply to get started and if any other loads are being powered by the same leg, it doesn’t have the surge capacity to get that miter saw started.
If I’m correct, this issue has nothing to do with ‘imbalance’.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
I'm not certain the units are a pair of stacked single phase inverters in one box. Many times they run a split phase transformer with a center tap for neutral.
As for your example of 2 6Kw split phase inverters that are in parallel operation, it might handle imbalance better than a single split phase unit of comparable size.
Samsonite801
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Because we'd find a trip error of:
'F26 - BusUnbalance_Fault - Too much load on one leg (L1 or L2) Vs. the other leg or DC loads on the AC output when off-grid. Grounded PV +/- wire can cause F20, F23, or F26. '
And so if you turn on some other loads on the other leg then the trip goes away, or is way less likely to occur.
Based on my research it has something to do with the inverter control circuit's ability to cope with a sudden imbalance of impedance (and voltage-drop) between the output phases.
And a consumer added-on auto-transformer proves in other cases to help the legs share some current (balance the impedance somewhat) from the other adjacent leg (by having the extra resistors bridged across and a neutral connection in the middle).
The LF inverters probably aren't as susceptible to imbalance issues since they essentially have the same thing like an auto-transformer (or isolation transformer with the center tap already in them to help balance out the legs.
So I don't really know if this phenomena is specific to SolArk all-in-one split-phase HF, or other brands as well, or not likely to occur on LF all-in-one split-phase or anything.
I was just emphasizing that I prefer the paired 120v inverter approach, joined to become split-phase, better (in my experience), since I have seen them run under all sorts of severely imbalanced loads, and know they don't care how the loads are being placed on them, because each inverter has its own inverter controller board running its own set of switches.
I haven't even got my own LV6548s running online yet, just been working with neighbors with 6500EX mostly, and one who has six LV6548, one guy with the two Sunny Islands 6048-US on a solar trailer, etc, and I do like how this topology operates.
That's really not what this thread is about, so sorry if I took it off into left field, I had mainly replied to Zwy explaining why I love the separate inverter per phase. Not saying this new MPP Solar 10kw would have any sort of issue related to imbalance, guess someone can test it more as things progress.
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Sanwizard
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Well, I never tested anything like Will does, but my previous setup was two LV6548's set in parallel mode. Never had any issues except a fan going noisy, and it handled everything I threw at it, including two 3 ton Trane HVAC's(but they both had micro air easy starts).
My current setup is two Sunny Boys connected to the panels, and two LVX6048WP's connected to the batteries.
The 6548's were 120V x 2, and the 6048WP's are 240V x 2. I have less HVAC on this new place, but so far the WP's have not had any imbalance issues. I do have a 3.5HP pool pump that works just fine, and an electric oven. When the oven, pump, and HVAC all hit at once, I get short peaks around 11KW (HVAC start).
That said, I do NOT trust these version 1 LVX6048WP units at all. Firmware sucks. Fans are loud after the firmware update( they were whisper quiet at first), and the settings change by themselves sometimes( unless China is hacking in).
Having experienced the rock solid LV6548's, I was hoping for more. That said, I would not TOUCH the new 10K version until they have been out for a while and well tested in the field.
Which Sol-ark is this 12k or 15k? I'm asking because there is a video on youtube describing this same issue. I felt bad for the guy. After spending all that money or what is supposedly top tier equipment. You're stuck with a ridiculous unit. Here is the video
Sol-ark doesn’t even know. The 15k is 12k and the 12k is like 9?
Edit: only poking fun since Tim’s being slow today.
It appears to be the 12kw unit in the video, in the comments the poster says the issues were later resolved.
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Samsonite801
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All the people I've dealt with here have 12k's.. The last guy most recent, he did say after firmware update it got worse. Although I don't know what his latest error message was, whether it was F16 or whatever like them in the video. The last SolArk guy I helped before that was getting F26 though and he didn't do the firmware yet (didn't have internet yet).
Funny thing is, I have that same Dewalt saw as in the video above, and mine actually works fine using a Magnum 2812 (2800w) inverter (since I don't have my MPP Solar up and online yet), but just for good measure I bought this inline extension-corded soft starter for it so it doesn't hammer on that inverter so hard. Just makes the motor take an extra second to get up to speed but you can tell it doesn't hit the inverter so hard with the soft start on it.
I run the Dewalt miter saw and my Makita metal chop saw with this soft start. Even when I get the bigger MPP Solar inverters online, will probably still use soft starters on big motor loads, just to help be gentler on the inverters, maybe they'll last longer, don't know, seems logical, think of it as a form of a surge protector I guess.
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OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
From another thread where in-rush was discussed:
Using the inrush feature on Klein meter I measured a few tools around the shop.
All of the following are 120v AC load tools from around the shop, each number is max value from three tests, no load (not cutting/drilling working)
Big Dewalt 14" wood cutting chop saw FLA 15A, in-rush 32.2Amps
Milwaulkee 14" metal cutting chop saw FLA 15A, in-rush 52.4Amps (WOW)
The same Milwaulkee 14" metal cutting but using the bump-start pull the start, pause a half-second and pull on again in-rush 40Amps
Hitachi 1/2" drill (550rpm) FLA 6.2, in-rush 11.2A
Dewalt 1/2" Impact FLA 7.2A, In-rush 7.6A
10-gallon shop vac FLA 15A, in-rush 22.2A
4.5-inch mini angle grinder FLA 6A, in-rush 12A
Milwaulkee 7-1/4" skillsaw FLA 15A, In-rush 33.9A
Bosch worm-drive 8"skillsaw FLA 15A, in-rush 37.3A
Using the inrush feature on Klein meter I measured a few tools around the shop.
All of the following are 120v AC load tools from around the shop, each number is max value from three tests, no load (not cutting/drilling working)
Big Dewalt 14" wood cutting chop saw FLA 15A, in-rush 32.2Amps
Milwaulkee 14" metal cutting chop saw FLA 15A, in-rush 52.4Amps (WOW)
The same Milwaulkee 14" metal cutting but using the bump-start pull the start, pause a half-second and pull on again in-rush 40Amps
Hitachi 1/2" drill (550rpm) FLA 6.2, in-rush 11.2A
Dewalt 1/2" Impact FLA 7.2A, In-rush 7.6A
10-gallon shop vac FLA 15A, in-rush 22.2A
4.5-inch mini angle grinder FLA 6A, in-rush 12A
Milwaulkee 7-1/4" skillsaw FLA 15A, In-rush 33.9A
Bosch worm-drive 8"skillsaw FLA 15A, in-rush 37.3A
$1700 US includes shippingI don't see it priced yet on their page. I was looking for a decent AIO unite to power a few deep freezes before investing in outback or Schneider latter.
MPP Solar Inc » SPLIT PHASE HYBRID – LVX 12KW WP
www.mppsolar.com
That’s an attractive price for the 10K (5+5K).
I’m really curious to know what this means:
3. Zero grid injection with CT (optional accessory)
and
‘An important feature for a hybrid inverter is the ability to fulfill “zero grid injection“. LVX 12KW WP is able to achieve this with the use of CT sensor (sold separately) and once this feature is activated, the inverter will direct all incoming PV energy for self-consumption, as illustrated below.’
If ‘all incoming PV’ merely refers to DC-coupled PV connected to the MPPTs, this is a nothing-burger.
But if ‘all incoming PV’ includes AC-coupled PV connected to AC output or Generator input (when grid-tied), this implies adaptive charging.
The manual basically says nothing about this feature (other than explaining how to connect the optional CT sensors).
Do we have any members who have bought one of these yet?
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
All it means is zero export to grid.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Parallel up to 6, pretty amazing actually.
I was interested in the SRNE 10Kw when it would be able to be put in parallel but this certainly raises the bar for my shop system.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
WP = weather proof if I am reading this correctly.
From what I have read, the 6048WP is a IP65 (230/240 output) CE certified grid interactive inverter for the European market.
Looks like MPP list some firmware updates for this model posted in August and September of this year.
From what I have read, the 6048WP is a IP65 (230/240 output) CE certified grid interactive inverter for the European market.
Looks like MPP list some firmware updates for this model posted in August and September of this year.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
I know some people had some problems with some of the WP units out there. I run a pair of LV6548's and if this unit ends up working as well as the LV6548's, then it will be a serious contender in the US market.
I believe these units are based upon the Euro 240 version of Axpert inverters which some members here have reported the units have worked very well.
