Signature Solar LifePower4 Rack and Chargeverter Impressions

[Tellico]

On March 21 we received our new EG4 rack with six 100 amp hour 51,2 volt modules. We replaced 8 six volt 430 amp hr L16 style flooded lead acid batteries. Shipping from Texas to Tennessee was fast and via R&L Carriers, the best in the business from my experience. All items were well packaged with no damage.

We have been off-grid since 2015, with 9000W PV feeding two Outback FX3048 inverters which are not connected with comms to the new EG4 batteries. We are now running our generator through the 100A EG4 Chargeverter so that we no longer are subjecting our loads to distorted generator power.

We are relieved to at last be free of the nightmare of lead acid batteries. We run more over-night loads than most off grid folks because of our 3D printers which often need to run 24 hrs straight.

We often lamented the need to switch from clean inverter power to dirty generator power. This problem was resolved by the new Chargeverter. We are now running our generator at max power which delivers 90 amps Chargeverter output. Any higher setting trips the 5700W generator circuit breaker.

The Lifepower4 cells appear to be well balanced and high quality. It took 5 days to dial in our two Outback FM80s so that the high voltage alarm would not trip. The BMS reduced the State of Health from 100% to 99.8% during this time. If the BMS is protecting the batteries, how can this happen?

The only abnormal behavior of these new batteries is the wildly drifting SOC readings, currently 22% spread and getting wider by the day. All the 96 cells have closely matched voltages and we have no reason to believe that we have any hardware issues. The integration in the software seems to be the problem. What happens when 50% state of actual charge hits 0% indicated? I have emailed Sig Sol with attached screen shots with no response. I also called and talked to a rep who suggested I rotate the modules regularly. I don't think a physical solution is correct for a software problem.

Unless we receive guidance from SS we will watch voltages and ignore SOC readings. Our current policy is to run the generator when the modules fall to 52.0 volts, which correlates roughly to 40% SOC AFAIK. Other than this SOC issue, I would 100% endorse these new batteries. I would suggest that most customer issues could be resolved with a more comprehensive owners manual. Instead of ramping up customer service, SS should hire a technical writer to flesh out the current skeleton manual.

 

[houseofancients]

On March 21 we received our new EG4 rack with six 100 amp hour 51,2 volt modules. We replaced 8 six volt 430 amp hr L16 style flooded lead acid batteries. Shipping from Texas to Tennessee was fast and via R&L Carriers, the best in the business from my experience. All items were well packaged with no damage.

We have been off-grid since 2015, with 9000W PV feeding two Outback FX3048 inverters which are not connected with comms to the new EG4 batteries. We are now running our generator through the 100A EG4 Chargeverter so that we no longer are subjecting our loads to distorted generator power.

We are relieved to at last be free of the nightmare of lead acid batteries. We run more over-night loads than most off grid folks because of our 3D printers which often need to run 24 hrs straight.

We often lamented the need to switch from clean inverter power to dirty generator power. This problem was resolved by the new Chargeverter. We are now running our generator at max power which delivers 90 amps Chargeverter output. Any higher setting trips the 5700W generator circuit breaker.

The Lifepower4 cells appear to be well balanced and high quality. It took 5 days to dial in our two Outback FM80s so that the high voltage alarm would not trip. The BMS reduced the State of Health from 100% to 99.8% during this time. If the BMS is protecting the batteries, how can this happen?

The only abnormal behavior of these new batteries is the wildly drifting SOC readings, currently 22% spread and getting wider by the day. All the 96 cells have closely matched voltages and we have no reason to believe that we have any hardware issues. The integration in the software seems to be the problem. What happens when 50% state of actual charge hits 0% indicated? I have emailed Sig Sol with attached screen shots with no response. I also called and talked to a rep who suggested I rotate the modules regularly. I don't think a physical solution is correct for a software problem.

Unless we receive guidance from SS we will watch voltages and ignore SOC readings. Our current policy is to run the generator when the modules fall to 52.0 volts, which correlates roughly to 40% SOC AFAIK. Other than this SOC issue, I would 100% endorse these new batteries. I would suggest that most customer issues could be resolved with a more comprehensive owners manual. Instead of ramping up customer service, SS should hire a technical writer to flesh out the current skeleton manual.

what gives you the SOC ?
your inverters, or do you have a seperate shunt ?
if it is your inverters, i believe the SOC you're shown is based on voltage, and for LiFePO4 with is very flat charge and discharge curve, basing the SOC on voltage is horribly inaccurate

 

[Tellico]

what gives you the SOC ?
your inverters, or do you have a seperate shunt ?
if it is your inverters, i believe the SOC you're shown is based on voltage, and for LiFePO4 with is very flat charge and discharge curve, basing the SOC on voltage is horribly inaccurate

All battery info comes from hooking up a laptop using the qt-bms-test software. No separate shunt in the system. The voltage of the 96 cells is matched The fault is with the BMS calibration, I suspect. If I was writing the firmware I would recalibrate the SOC everytime the module was charged up, based on internal resistance of the battery. Only one of the six modules reaches 100% SOC. the others range from 97% to 77% even though all modules are fully charged, based on the full charge profile of rapidly rising cell voltage.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

On March 21 we received our new EG4 rack with six 100 amp hour 51,2 volt modules. We replaced 8 six volt 430 amp hr L16 style flooded lead acid batteries. Shipping from Texas to Tennessee was fast and via R&L Carriers, the best in the business from my experience. All items were well packaged with no damage.

We have been off-grid since 2015, with 9000W PV feeding two Outback FX3048 inverters which are not connected with comms to the new EG4 batteries. We are now running our generator through the 100A EG4 Chargeverter so that we no longer are subjecting our loads to distorted generator power.

We are relieved to at last be free of the nightmare of lead acid batteries. We run more over-night loads than most off grid folks because of our 3D printers which often need to run 24 hrs straight.

We often lamented the need to switch from clean inverter power to dirty generator power. This problem was resolved by the new Chargeverter. We are now running our generator at max power which delivers 90 amps Chargeverter output. Any higher setting trips the 5700W generator circuit breaker.

The Lifepower4 cells appear to be well balanced and high quality. It took 5 days to dial in our two Outback FM80s so that the high voltage alarm would not trip. The BMS reduced the State of Health from 100% to 99.8% during this time. If the BMS is protecting the batteries, how can this happen?

The only abnormal behavior of these new batteries is the wildly drifting SOC readings, currently 22% spread and getting wider by the day. All the 96 cells have closely matched voltages and we have no reason to believe that we have any hardware issues. The integration in the software seems to be the problem. What happens when 50% state of actual charge hits 0% indicated? I have emailed Sig Sol with attached screen shots with no response. I also called and talked to a rep who suggested I rotate the modules regularly. I don't think a physical solution is correct for a software problem.

Unless we receive guidance from SS we will watch voltages and ignore SOC readings. Our current policy is to run the generator when the modules fall to 52.0 volts, which correlates roughly to 40% SOC AFAIK. Other than this SOC issue, I would 100% endorse these new batteries. I would suggest that most customer issues could be resolved with a more comprehensive owners manual. Instead of ramping up customer service, SS should hire a technical writer to flesh out the current skeleton manual.

I'm running 12 of the EG4 Lifepower4 batteries and see a lot of swing on the SOC. When I look at the voltage for each battery and the individual cell voltages they do not support the SOC. I'm using Solar Assistant but with either software I'm in agreement that it's a software issue and not actually that much difference in SOC. Also agree with HOA that it's inaccurate. Kind of a pain but I haven't found a solution.

 

[Tellico]

I'm running 12 of the Lifepower4 batteries and see a lot of swing on the SOC. When I look at the voltage for each battery and the individual cell voltages they do not support the SOC. I'm using Solar Assistant but with either software I'm in agreement that it's a software issue and not actually that much difference in SOC. Also agree with HOA that it's inaccurate. Kind of a pain but I haven't found a solution.

The one of six modules that indicates full charge with 100% SOC is the one I use to give a general indication of charge state. My only concern is what happens when the lowest SOC module approaches 0% indicated SOC. Will the BMS shut down the module when the actual SOC is closer to 23%?

 

[DougfromdaUP]

I think the state-of-health number is less accurate than the soc. Here’s a link to a thread I started about that


https://diysolarforum.com/threads/w...ting-as-its-state-of-health.55178/post-718290

 

[EastTexCowboy]

The one of six modules that indicates full charge with 100% SOC is the one I use to give a general indication of charge state. My only concern is what happens when the lowest SOC module approaches 0% indicated SOC. Will the BMS shut down the module when the actual SOC is closer to 23%?

I wouldn't think so, but I've been wrong before.

 

[DougfromdaUP]

The one of six modules that indicates full charge with 100% SOC is the one I use to give a general indication of charge state. My only concern is what happens when the lowest SOC module approaches 0% indicated SOC. Will the BMS shut down the module when the actual SOC is closer to 23%?

The protection parameters, according to what you see with bms_test, never use soc. Everything is voltage driven. So the calculated SOC is just for your information.

 

[shopman]

Which batteries do you have. The Lifepower4's or the LL's? Send an email to Jarrett@signaturesolar.com and he will help you with your issue.

 

[GXMnow]

Tracking the SoC on lithium batteries, especially LFP is very difficult. Very few systems do it well. My Li NMC battery bank uses a JK-BMS to manage the cells and it reports SoC as well. For over a year, my only charging source was my Schneider XW-Pro inverter. When it would go into absorb mode, the current did a nice clean ramp down, and then the current would drop to zero for about an hour. That reset the SoC reading to 100% every time, even though I had the voltage dialed down to just 90% on those cells. Each evening, after the sun went down, the battery bank would run my house until the sun came up again. The SoC would be down to about 60%. In reality, it was about 50% as it really started at 90% instead of 100%, but I know this and I have no issue with it reading like that. But now I added a small array of DC coupled solar panels with a 40 amp charge controller. The XW-Pro stops charging a little earlier, and then the DC charger runs for about 3 more hours to top up the cells to about 95% now. It still goes into absorb, and the current ramps off a bit slower over a longer time. It still shows about 0.5 amps going in as the inverter starts pulling power. The current in or out does stay under 3 amps for a few hours, but for some reason, that is not good enough. My SoC reading now has not reset in 5 months. It keeps drifting lower and lower. Fully charge at a real 95% charge is only showing as 38% SoC in the BMS. It really makes no sense.

Th one recommendation I keep getting is to just add a Victron "Smart Shunt" between the batteries and all of the chargers/loads. Then you can dial in the reset parameters and get a reasonable SoC calculation that you can also manually reset if it does drift off a bit. I may be adding one this spring. Just what I need though, a 4th software app to track.

 

[Tellico]

Which batteries do you have. The Lifepower4's or the LL's? Send an email to Jarrett@signaturesolar.com and he will help you with your issue.

Lifepower4 x 6. Thanks for the email.

 

[Tellico]

Tracking the SoC on lithium batteries, especially LFP is very difficult. Very few systems do it well. My Li NMC battery bank uses a JK-BMS to manage the cells and it reports SoC as well. For over a year, my only charging source was my Schneider XW-Pro inverter. When it would go into absorb mode, the current did a nice clean ramp down, and then the current would drop to zero for about an hour. That reset the SoC reading to 100% every time, even though I had the voltage dialed down to just 90% on those cells. Each evening, after the sun went down, the battery bank would run my house until the sun came up again. The SoC would be down to about 60%. In reality, it was about 50% as it really started at 90% instead of 100%, but I know this and I have no issue with it reading like that. But now I added a small array of DC coupled solar panels with a 40 amp charge controller. The XW-Pro stops charging a little earlier, and then the DC charger runs for about 3 more hours to top up the cells to about 95% now. It still goes into absorb, and the current ramps off a bit slower over a longer time. It still shows about 0.5 amps going in as the inverter starts pulling power. The current in or out does stay under 3 amps for a few hours, but for some reason, that is not good enough. My SoC reading now has not reset in 5 months. It keeps drifting lower and lower. Fully charge at a real 95% charge is only showing as 38% SoC in the BMS. It really makes no sense.

Th one recommendation I keep getting is to just add a Victron "Smart Shunt" between the batteries and all of the chargers/loads. Then you can dial in the reset parameters and get a reasonable SoC calculation that you can also manually reset if it does drift off a bit. I may be adding one this spring. Just what I need though, a 4th software app to track.

I bought an $8 digital voltage display which is mounted on the living room wall. Basically if my battery is above 52.0V, my LifePower4s are above 20% SOC IRL. And I can look out the window to see if the sun is out and if the 9kw pv is going to kick in. If so, the modules will charge up fully by Solar Noon.

 

[JoeHam]

I bought an $8 digital voltage display which is mounted on the living room wall. Basically if my battery is above 52.0V, my LifePower4s are above 20% SOC IRL. And I can look out the window to see if the sun is out and if the 9kw pv is going to kick in. If so, the modules will charge up fully by Solar Noon.

You just need to add a weather rock to your system and you’ll be set :

Weather rock - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Tellico]

You just need to add a weather rock to your system and you’ll be set :

Weather rock - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A simple voltage display with 0.1 V resolution works for me because my loads are very steady, and therefore voltage is a good indication of SOC. Close enough, anyway, since battery capacity is generous for my needs. The best power system is the one you don't have to think about and just hums along in the background. After living with the accursed FLA batteries, which never performed to manufacturers' spec, these LifePower4 modules are pure happiness.

 

[Zapper77]

All battery info comes from hooking up a laptop using the qt-bms-test software. No separate shunt in the system. The voltage of the 96 cells is matched The fault is with the BMS calibration, I suspect. If I was writing the firmware I would recalibrate the SOC everytime the module was charged up, based on internal resistance of the battery. Only one of the six modules reaches 100% SOC. the others range from 97% to 77% even though all modules are fully charged, based on the full charge profile of rapidly rising cell voltage.

What charge parameters are you using. BTW from my limited testing...

Use the lowest reading from your battery SOC. If you flip the breakers off and on for the batteries that report 100% SOC, they typically will reset and report a lower (more accurate) SOC. (Sounds like you still need to top balance your batteries).

Recap: the 77% is the reading that I would use and you need to top balance.

 

[wme]

Occams Razor.
Have you tried charging each battery separately to 100%? Are the load and charge points on a single battery or are they spread?

 

[hoff]

Occams Razor.
Have you tried charging each battery separately to 100%? Are the load and charge points on a single battery or are they spread?

These six batteries are well balanced already. The one showing the lowest power will hit 0% SOC and continues to discharge at a voltage above 51.0V. I have identified the battery module with the most realistic SOC and use that number for the other five modules. My biggest concern now is my generators are deteriorating from lack of use. I love these Lifepower4s and the primary effort by Signature Solar should be a more comprehensive Owner's Manual.

 

[hoff]

What charge parameters are you using. BTW from my limited testing...

Use the lowest reading from your battery SOC. If you flip the breakers off and on for the batteries that report 100% SOC, they typically will reset and report a lower (more accurate) SOC. (Sounds like you still need to top balance your batteries).

Recap: the 77% is the reading that I would use and you need to top balance.

I am using the battery module SOC that reaches 100% just before charging stops. I was charging at 56.4V for 30 minutes but have recently reduced to 55.4V for 30 minutes and am still charging to 95% or better. Many users claim battery life is longer if full daily charging is avoided.

 

[hoff]

I wouldn't think so, but I've been wrong before.

Recently I discharged the battery to the point of 0% indicated. The SOC just sits at 0% while the module just keeps discharging and behaving normally.

 

[hoff]

What charge parameters are you using. BTW from my limited testing...

Use the lowest reading from your battery SOC. If you flip the breakers off and on for the batteries that report 100% SOC, they typically will reset and report a lower (more accurate) SOC. (Sounds like you still need to top balance your batteries).

Recap: the 77% is the reading that I would use and you need to top balance.

The SOC readings are not associated with battery balance. These batteries arrived balanced and are still closely balanced, based on the closely matched cell voltages.