Sol-ark - eating their own dog food?

[Oldphile]

Some (smart?) utilities are doing some very interesting things from the perspective of the homeowner with a PV system and the ability to understand the nuances. JFPETESN's utility is providing hourly rates, which is way too much for most people to digest, but in his case he's taking advantage of this to lower his bill by buying power when it's cheap and storing it in his batteries for use when it's expensive. The utility presumably is just fine with this since they are the ones choosing the rates, which reflect how their cost varies during the day. (Now if they'd only send the information electronically to his inverter and if his inverter was able to make decisions based on that information, his life would be much smoother).

Some utilities in the NE US (and perhaps other places) offer a HUGE premium for the ability to pull power from your batteries during peak demand periods. The contracts are reasonably balanced, in the sense that you are protected from their draining your batteries right before a storm that is forecast to cause outages. You can set how many kWH they can pull, and so on. They even pay upfront when you install the battery and commit to the program. Of course, you have to have a battery they can communicate with, the Tesla PowerWall being the most familiar example.
Here's information on the Vermont program
And a similar program in Hawaii

Eversource MA has Sol-Ark listed as partner equipment for Connected Solutions, but Eversource NH does not. I'm hoping that this will change before I add batteries to my 15K. In 10 years this program could pay for the battery while having an insignificant impact on battery cycle life.

 

[Ampster]

I'm hoping that this will change before I add batteries to my 15K.

Do I understand correctly that you have a SolArk installed in NH? If so my question is how does adding batteries to the inverter change the relationship with your provider? At least for me, in California, that is a behind the meter change to an existing system that does not change its generating capacity so nothing in the Net Energay Metering agreement needs to change.

 

[Hedges]

At least for me, in California, that is a behind the meter change to an existing system that does not change its generating capacity so nothing in the Net Energy Metering agreement needs to change.

I thought PG&E did care about paired storage. Maybe storage that is used to backfeed. And/or added battery inverter.
I'm sure they care about source of electrons which later backfeed the meter.

 

[Ampster]

I thought PG&E did care about paired storage.

They do in the context of SGIP grants. In those cases they carefully monitor those accounts for compliance. I think there is a unique paired storage bill. Each utility is in charge of admnistering the mony from SGIP grants in their territory and part of that process is that the grantee signes a paired storage agreement that prevents them from selling battery power back to the grid. I do not know how Tesla and its Virtual Power Plants work around that issue but maybe it is an exception. Also, think Tesla ran out of money that was allocated per vendor so many Powerwalls may have been installed without SGIP funding and presumably no paired storage agreement.

 

[Shimmy]

Good thing is that one of the batteries you listed comes with a 10 year NO-BS warranty that is not pro-rated. A failure on day 3649/3650 is would be a no-out-of-pocket replacement cost...so that risk is essentially nonexistent.

True, sadly not approved for the Hawaii Battery Bonus program though.

 

[JeepHammer]

Eversource MA has Sol-Ark listed as partner equipment for Connected Solutions, but Eversource NH does not. I'm hoping that this will change before I add batteries to my 15K. In 10 years this program could pay for the battery while having an insignificant impact on battery cycle life.

LiFePO4? Run the battery about 80% and it will sit pretty as a backup. I use mine every day off grid, so about 90% is 'Full' and they never get bottomed out.

For long term storage, they say 50% to 80% but I don't have personal experience letting them sit for backup. Mine have made it down to 20% when I had batteries pulled out of bank for service, and I run them up about 90% in summer when the days are long. No issues so far coming up on 10 years with Lithium chemestry.

 

[Ampster]

True, sadly not approved for the Hawaii Battery Bonus program though.

My brother has a couple of Powerwalls on a home in Mauai along with solar. He was offered some program that was not as lucrative. I just sent him a link to the above, asking if it was the same program. If I recall he could not get a NEM agreement and the only way to may solar payoff was to install batteries and solar.

 

[Oldphile]

Do I understand correctly that you have a SolArk installed in NH? If so my question is how does adding batteries to the inverter change the relationship with your provider? At least for me, in California, that is a behind the meter change to an existing system that does not change its generating capacity so nothing in the Net Energay Metering agreement needs to change.

Yes a Sol-Ark in NH. The interconnect application includes a Battery Storage/ Back Up Supplemental form.

Is this Battery an add-on to an existing customer-generator facility? Yes ☐ No ☐
Is this Battery: Battery (DC Coupled - No Export) + Solar Yes ☐ No ☐ Battery (AC Coupled - Export) + Solar Yes ☐ No ☐
Battery Only (AC Coupled - Export) Yes ☐ No ☐
Does the battery share an inverter with a Renewable Energy system? Yes ☐ No ☐

 

[Shimmy]

My brother has a couple of Powerwalls on a home in Mauai along with solar. He was offered some program that was not as lucrative. I just sent him a link to the above, asking if it was the same program. If I recall he could not get a NEM agreement and the only way to may solar payoff was to install batteries and solar.

At least a year ago, Tesla would not warranty Powerwalls for the Battery Bonus program, but that program is only open to people that have NEM. The other program I am aware of is a grid support thing similar to what CAISO has, but I don't think it is very well developed.

At ~$0.28/kWh here, solar plus battery is pretty much a slam-dunk if you size it based on self-consumption. I still struggle to figure out if I am better off with the Battery Bonus program where I can add exportable PV, or NEM+ where I must self-consume... but don't have to use my battery for grid support.