Sol-Ark needs a serious Change!

[Ampster]

According to their website it is: CE,UL1741SA

It may comply with the standard but the most important question is whether it is "listed". Apparently UL Listed can cost up to $500,000. I am sorry if I was not clear. I am pretty sure the SolArk is listed but your link was to a different brand.

 

[Danke]

It may comply with the standard but the most important question is whether it is "listed". Apparently UL Listed can cost up to $500,000. I am sorry if I was not clear. I am pretty sure the SolArk is listed but your link was to a different brand.

Those are Deye inverters, the OEM provider for Sol-Ark.

 

[Ampster]

Those are Deye inverters, the OEM provider for Sol-Ark.

I understand the relationship. However SolArk paid for the UL listing and it only applies to SolArk. That is probably one reason SolArk is so much more expensive. The UL database is hard to navigate to find out if that particular inverter is listed but maybe some state agency in Minnesota maintains a list of inverters that are acceptable for Grid Tie like the California Energy Commission does in California.

 

[onokai]

UL listing Time and cost $$.

 

[robby]

UL listing Time and cost $$.

UL Listing is also an examination of all the major parts of the Inverter and making sure they have UL compliant documentation. You must have UL approved breakers, Fuses, Capacitors and just about anything that can lead to a fire or electrocution needs to have it's proper documentation to show it meets UL standards.
For UL Compliance they look at the Inverter as a whole and test to see if it can do what the manufacturer states it can do. They don't care if the internal breaker only last 20 times and then Arcs out. They only care that the Inverters Breaker works as specified when they run their tests on the Inverter.

Dunno if this is making sense to people. The simplest analogy is if your getting a car certified and you claim that it can stop from 60 MPH to 0 in 80 feet. That is what they will test and if it can do that then it passes that test. That does not mean that the brake pads can do that 10,000 times before failing or that it can maintain that same stopping power at least 5,000 times. That would be a separate test on the break pads themselves and in the case of a UL Tested Car (in car analogy eg.) they not only want to see that the car can do what the maker claims it can do but they also want to see the test data for the brake pads that show it can do it for a reasonable length of time and that if it fails it fails in way that does not leave you without any brakes at all.

Before they even start testing they need to cross reference all the major Internal components test data and the way the system is wired, connected and layed out to make sure it meets safety standards, then they start testing the unit.

 

[curiouscarbon]

maybe it is time to double the cost of UL listing and include aging and cycle testing! ?

thanks for the insights.

 

[Danke]

I understand the relationship. However SolArk paid for the UL listing and it only applies to SolArk. That is probably one reason SolArk is so much more expensive. The UL database is hard to navigate to find out if that particular inverter is listed but maybe some state agency in Minnesota maintains a list of inverters that are acceptable for Grid Tie like the California Energy Commission does in California.

OK, thanks. I guess I should stick with my original plan and just get the Sol-Ark to be safe and have the local support if I ever need it.

 

[Not Aerosmith]

We recently installed a new Sol-Ark 12k EMP controlling 32x400 watt Q-Cell Panels. During the finalization of the setup and building a plant, we couldn't get the Sol-Ark to communicate with the monitoring servers through our wired home network. A phone call to tech support was interrupted when I had an epiphany and thought to ask where these monitoring servers are located. I informed the technician that if the monitoring servers are based in China, Russia, Iran, North Korea or any country that is unfriendly with the United States, our router will intentionally block those IP addresses on all inbound and outbound traffic. The tech took a long pause and told us to "hold-on"..... when he returned he admitted that the monitoring servers are in China. The Phone app also uses Chinese servers.

The #1 existential threat to the United States, especially our power grid, is China. Giving China the ability to monitor the solar power production of Sol-Ark systems here in the United States is grossly irresponsible. Needless to say that I'm disappointed that a "Veteran Owned" company would not consider the implications of this corporate decision.

Sure, I could just use the system unmonitored - which is what we are doing in the interim while we await the power(s) that be at Sol-Ark to pull their heads out of the sand.

Spending the additional premium to purchase an EMP hardened Sol-Ark system seems a bit untoward to then give control of the same system to the #1 country that might choose to use an EMP device against the United States in the future.

Before you folks decide to jump in here and start telling me that I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, just know that those Chinese servers can be used by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) to change your setup, flash your firmware to render your system inoperative, or possibly make it completely unsafe. Give that some thought.

I've written a letter last week to the CEO of Sol-Ark and received no response. More people need to call and write them to have the monitoring server and services brought back onto and into the United States.

Oh, and before you assume that your non-Sol-Ark brand inverter is safely monitored in the USA or the EU, you might want to check to see where the monitoring servers are located before you just assume.

Excellent insight!!! My existing system is Fronius, so I don't have that problem. However, I'm getting ready to change from GT inverters to a hybrid inverter and the Sol-Ark 15 seems to be my best choice. Looks like I'm going to share your concerns in order to changeover to a hybrid system.

I do think that we have an even bigger problem. Have you ever noticed that when you download most apps that you are required to give them full access to all your information. I wish the government would stop this invasion of privacy.

 

[Hedges]

I do think that we have an even bigger problem. Have you ever noticed that when you download most apps that you are required to give them full access to all your information. I wish the government would stop this invasion of privacy.

You wish the government would stop allowing you to consent to an app accessing data on your phone?
Or you wish the government would stop allowing companies to offer apps which would access data on your phone?
You want the government to write laws regulating what software is to do? Should then companies have to apply for a license to sell software? Do they have to wait for a government employee to review and approve the software?

(Is it even the companies which you are concerned are spying on our personal information?)

Be careful what you wish for ...

 

[Sanwizard]

You wish the government would stop allowing you to consent to an app accessing data on your phone?
Or you wish the government would stop allowing companies to offer apps which would access data on your phone?
You want the government to write laws regulating what software is to do? Should then companies have to apply for a license to sell software? Do they have to wait for a government employee to review and approve the software?

(Is it even the companies which you are concerned are spying on our personal information?)

Be careful what you wish for ...

Its kinda like gaming. If you were around in the 90's, a game came on a CD and you owned it, and could play offline any time. Now most games FORCE you to "sign up" online, play online, or create a profile to even play it. WAY too much gimmie your data for the opportunity to play a game.

 

[Hedges]

So the problem really is that too many other people agree to something you don't want to.
Probably similar to the issue of right-to-work vs. union shop.
And our lack of bargaining power as rooftop PV generators.
Unionization, banding together, can increase power.
But most will take what is free. Me included. Without thinking (I do pause to think.)
Others, who operate behind the scenes, can maneuver the public to accept things they would not before.


For those of us who want to talk to our equipment, either good non-invasive control software from the vendor, or open-source is desired.
Since I have older SMA models, I use their software or hardware. There is YASDI, but I haven't played with that. I might want to implement my only functions, accessing monitoring and control.

 

[Sanwizard]

Thanks for your opinion buddy. I always enjoy your comments. As to old SMA, is there anything available from SMA to monitor older 2004-2008 vintage sunny boys?

 

[Hedges]

Sure, Sunny Boy Control does that; it did my SWR2500U (but not 10000TL-US, not Sunny Island). RS-485 control from PC, not sure if Sunny Explorer or Sunny Data Control software. Sunny Web Box, with RS-485 to Sunny Boys and Islands, Ethernet to PC. Web Box only saw serial number nothing else for Sunny TriPower, but SMA Support said they do use that; one or the other needs firmware update.

 

[robby]

So the problem really is that too many other people agree to something you don't want to.
Probably similar to the issue of right-to-work vs. union shop.
And our lack of bargaining power as rooftop PV generators.
Unionization, banding together, can increase power.
But most will take what is free. Me included. Without thinking (I do pause to think.)
Others, who operate behind the scenes, can maneuver the public to accept things they would not before.


For those of us who want to talk to our equipment, either good non-invasive control software from the vendor, or open-source is desired.
Since I have older SMA models, I use their software or hardware. There is YASDI, but I haven't played with that. I might want to implement my only functions, accessing monitoring and control.

I think the word you are looking for is "Convenience".
This is the human weakness that companies and governments have been exploiting for the last 15 years.
Most people are willing to upload all of their personal data to the Cloud because it's so much more Convenient than setting up a backup drive and doing it manually once a week. Everything that takes a persons personal information is usually incentivized by convenience.

Historians will probably look back at this period and consider the pinnacle of this achievement in the early 21st century as "Alexa"
She will turn on your lights, change your TV channel, recommend a good song and all she asks for is that she can listen to everything that is said in your house and archive it to a database.
The younger generation just jumps on this tech without a hesitation and the older generation tends to eventually be forced into compliance or they just have to do without all of the most modern devices.

 

[chess-equality]

The firewall will block direct access unless permission was given, however the app is a different story. Can also be blocked but will need a knowledgeable network technician. You can install it on a phone all by itself and block that phone's IP / MAC off the internet, but it will not get any updates.

Maybe use monitoring tools from a NATO-block country (e.g., Victron's) as alternative.

 

[Sanwizard]

Sure, Sunny Boy Control does that; it did my SWR2500U (but not 10000TL-US, not Sunny Island). RS-485 control from PC, not sure if Sunny Explorer or Sunny Data Control software. Sunny Web Box, with RS-485 to Sunny Boys and Islands, Ethernet to PC. Web Box only saw serial number nothing else for Sunny TriPower, but SMA Support said they do use that; one or the other needs firmware update.

I dont see any ports on the inverters.

 

[Hedges]

All the Sunny Boys I'm aware of have pin headers that a daughter card can mount on.
In the case of SWR2500, it goes in place of the LCD. The other models, it has a separate place.
Same one goes in Sunny Island.
There may be different model number kits, but so far as I can tell they have the same daughter card. Maybe a different silicone tube to cover wires (extra insulation for safety.)

https://www.stellavolta.com/content/SMA%20485USPB-NR%20Installation%20Manual%20-%20Stellavolta.pdf

 

[Hedges]

All the Sunny Boys I'm aware of have pin headers that a daughter card can mount on.

Make that all the "older" sunny boys.
the -40/-41 do not. Have SpeedWire (Ethernet) instead.

Some have Bluetooth, but due to supply chain issues presently may be delivered with or without, you won't know which, and can't retrofit.

The Sunny Boys shown compatible with "Backup" operation used to be the ones which could accept RS-485 daughter card. Now, those with Rule-21 (UL-1741-SA frequency-watts) are also shown.

Strangely, TL-US-22 is shown as compatible with backup but not off-grid? My guess is they do not have an off-grid setting, but with RS-485 they will switch to off-grid parameters when told to do so by Sunny Island.

The TL-US-22 and the TriPower take a different model RS-485 module. For TriPower, I see nothing other than serial number through RS-485, maybe my monitoring hardware needs firmware update. Through SpeedWire, I am able to configure them.

TLUS-10 and -12 were previously listed as supporting both backup and off-grid, no longer shown for backup due to firmware bug (you can thank me for that change in the compatibility list.)

Although a SpeedWire module is available for Sunny Island, that does not appear supported for controlling newer Sunny Boys, just for reporting to monitoring hardware. (SpeedWire to RS-485 interfaces are another monitoring option.)

The Sunny TriPower TL-US-10 are listed as not being compatible with backup. The do implement frequency-watts, and I was able to adjust frequency range for backup. Firmware update is supposed to support Rule-21. Either way, if wattage exceeded Sunny Island's relay current, that would be a problem while stuck at 60 Hz on-grid. (I'm thinking about SpeedWire for limited export. For utility meter, brief over-current but target average should be OK. For SI relay, I don't know how fast it needs to be, could hit 2x rated current.)

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SB-OffGrid-TI-US-en-22.pdf

 

[Sanwizard]

Make that all the "older" sunny boys.
the -40/-41 do not. Have SpeedWire (Ethernet) instead.

Some have Bluetooth, but due to supply chain issues presently may be delivered with or without, you won't know which, and can't retrofit.

The Sunny Boys shown compatible with "Backup" operation used to be the ones which could accept RS-485 daughter card. Now, those with Rule-21 (UL-1741-SA frequency-watts) are also shown.

Strangely, TL-US-22 is shown as compatible with backup but not off-grid? My guess is they do not have an off-grid setting, but with RS-485 they will switch to off-grid parameters when told to do so by Sunny Island.

The TL-US-22 and the TriPower take a different model RS-485 module. For TriPower, I see nothing other than serial number through RS-485, maybe my monitoring hardware needs firmware update. Through SpeedWire, I am able to configure them.

TLUS-10 and -12 were previously listed as supporting both backup and off-grid, no longer shown for backup due to firmware bug (you can thank me for that change in the compatibility list.)

Although a SpeedWire module is available for Sunny Island, that does not appear supported for controlling newer Sunny Boys, just for reporting to monitoring hardware. (SpeedWire to RS-485 interfaces are another monitoring option.)

The Sunny TriPower TL-US-10 are listed as not being compatible with backup. The do implement frequency-watts, and I was able to adjust frequency range for backup. Firmware update is supposed to support Rule-21. Either way, if wattage exceeded Sunny Island's relay current, that would be a problem while stuck at 60 Hz on-grid. (I'm thinking about SpeedWire for limited export. For utility meter, brief over-current but target average should be OK. For SI relay, I don't know how fast it needs to be, could hit 2x rated current.)

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SB-OffGrid-TI-US-en-22.pdf

So there is a way to open up the sunny boys and insert a daughter card for monitoring? There are currently no ports on mine.

 

[stumped]

Klaus Schwab has penetrated your solar cabinet

I agree, it's a real problem fueled by farming services out to the lowest bidder.