diy solar

diy solar

Sol-Ark Output vs Electrical Bill

If installing the CTs wasn't in the original scope of work, ask them how much to install.

I'm assuming you have a net metering agreement and are currently selling excess solar to the grid? Do you want to run loads in the main panel from your battery? Does your battery currently make it through the night?
 
Ok, so I reached out to the installer and sent him the main panel images and he said they couldn't put it there as LADWP would issues huge fines. He claims it was installed on the load panel, I sent him the image attached and that I don't see it and I didn't understand why it wasn't wired to the Sol-Ark. He came back and said it's automatic at the load panel breaker inside the Sol-Ark. Is this a correct set-up? Sorry all, just trying to get to the bottom of this, if the system is the wrong size, so be it. I'm trying to learn, and if the system size is the root cause, then will look for solutions down that path, or if it's a configuration or install issue then want to chase that down first.
Do you have a combined meter/panel for the house loads? I don't know about the SolArk CT's, but my IoTaWatt CTs could fit on the incoming busbars within the panel side. LADWP does not care about anything downstream of their meter compartment, so the fine stuff is BS unless they wanted to do an upstream CT.
 
Sounds like random make it up as I go along word salad to me. Adding the ability to measure energy is not something a utility has any say in. Is this installer Sol-Ark ( the company ) certified and licensed in your state to perform this type of work?

At a minimum, they owe you the CT's, it is a very minor job to add them to the main panel so self consumption ( home load's ) can be measured
 
If installing the CTs wasn't in the original scope of work, ask them how much to install.

I'm assuming you have a net metering agreement and are currently selling excess solar to the grid? Do you want to run loads in the main panel from your battery? Does your battery currently make it through the night?
We are sending the excess back to LADWP who then credits and banks it for us to use in other months if needed. Original cope of work does not detail out the CTs just the Sol-Ark install. We do make it through most nights on the battery, depending on AC usage and such. Yes that was the objective to run the loads in the main panel from the battery.
 
Sounds like random make it up as I go along word salad to me. Adding the ability to measure energy is not something a utility has any say in. Is this installer Sol-Ark ( the company ) certified and licensed in your state to perform this type of work?

At a minimum, they owe you the CT's, it is a very minor job to add them to the main panel so self consumption ( home load's ) can be measured
They are California B-General and C46-Solar licenses. They stopped responding so may be hard to get the CTs
 
They are California B-General and C46-Solar licenses. They stopped responding so may be hard to get the CTs
The CTs come already included as part of the Sol-Ark inverter. If missing / stolen by installer Sol-Ark should be able to sell you replacements
 
Can someone help translate this for me? I reached out Sol-Ark to see about the External CT vs the Internal CT and how it's measuring output.

"The internal CT is measuring the loads that are connected to the Load output of the inverter. The inverter is generating power, sending it to your load output at the inverter. Any excess power is being sent towards the grid.

If you have a main service panel on the grid input of the inverter, then the inverter would not be able to calculate the amount of power being consumed there and how much is actually making it to the grid.

The use of external CT sensors will provide the figure of power that is passing the CT sensors and making it to the grid."


Am I reading this correctly? IF my service panel is on the grid input, then the invertor cannot calculate the usage correctly without external CTs. How would I know if the main service panel is on the grid input? Is that standard or something I can visually see? Apologies if I am butchering the terminology.
 
Can someone help translate this for me? I reached out Sol-Ark to see about the External CT vs the Internal CT and how it's measuring output.

"The internal CT is measuring the loads that are connected to the Load output of the inverter. The inverter is generating power, sending it to your load output at the inverter. Any excess power is being sent towards the grid.

If you have a main service panel on the grid input of the inverter, then the inverter would not be able to calculate the amount of power being consumed there and how much is actually making it to the grid.

The use of external CT sensors will provide the figure of power that is passing the CT sensors and making it to the grid."


Am I reading this correctly? IF my service panel is on the grid input, then the invertor cannot calculate the usage correctly without external CTs. How would I know if the main service panel is on the grid input? Is that standard or something I can visually see? Apologies if I am butchering the terminology.
Just say "Yes, that is why I need the external CT installed."
 
Just follow the wires

I suspect your set up is in order from the street to loads:
Grid/utility meter
Main panel (connected to the input of the SolArk)
SolArk
Backup/critical/sub panel (connected to the output)

You can see that power to the subpanel flows through the SolArk so measuring loads is easy and done internally.

However, loads in the main panel don't flow through the SolArk so the SolArk can't measure them, hence the need for current sensors between the grid and main panel (so you/the SolArk inverter can measure loads in the main panel and power them if you have those settings selected)
 
Just follow the wires

I suspect your set up is in order from the street to loads:
Grid/utility meter
Main panel (connected to the input of the SolArk)
SolArk
Backup/critical/sub panel (connected to the output)

You can see that power to the subpanel flows through the SolArk so measuring loads is easy and done internally.

However, loads in the main panel don't flow through the SolArk so the SolArk can't measure them, hence the need for current sensors between the grid and main panel (so you/the SolArk inverter can measure loads in the main panel and power them if you have those settings selected)
Physically it runs Grid/Utility, Main Panel, Critical, Sol-Ark, but not sure how it's wired. I think I'm confused, if that's the case and the load is coming through the subpanel/critical, wouldn't it show I'm using less energy from the grid as only critical breakers are available in the sub. Would that impact what we are generating and what the Power company sees?
 
Looking back at your pictures I see the problem now; the bus connection between the meter and panel is inaccessibl, so the only place they could be installed is LADWP's wiring compartment below the meter, which is a violation of the regulations. You could ask for permission but are unlikely to get it.

Your only other option is to migrate all the existing branch circuits to your critical load panel, or a new house panel.
 
Looking back at your pictures I see the problem now; the bus connection between the meter and panel is inaccessibl, so the only place they could be installed is LADWP's wiring compartment below the meter, which is a violation of the regulations. You could ask for permission but are unlikely to get it.

Your only other option is to migrate all the existing branch circuits to your critical load panel, or a new house panel.
Maybe put some lugs on the main panel or a 200a breaker and install another 200a main next to it. Put the CRs between them. This is what the install should have done. I have never seen a meter combo unit like this. Is this common in your area?
 
Maybe put some lugs on the main panel or a 200a breaker and install another 200a main next to it. Put the CRs between them. This is what the install should have done. I have never seen a meter combo unit like this. Is this common in your area?
Yes, for Los Angeles this is all I've seen. There is a lot of complaints of people trying to use Energy Sensors (Sense, Emporia, Eydro etc.) and LADWP forces the homeowners to remove or they remove them directly.
 
Yes, for Los Angeles this is all I've seen. There is a lot of complaints of people trying to use Energy Sensors (Sense, Emporia, Eydro etc.) and LADWP forces the homeowners to remove or they remove them directly.
So, what like once a decade? I'm not sure why the power company would come on site unless something failed or you called them out.

If the tag is already cut, it seems low risk to add the current sensors.
 
So, what like once a decade? I'm not sure why the power company would come on site unless something failed or you called them out.

If the tag is already cut, it seems low risk to add the current sensors.
It was my thought, they don't check it when they read the meter. I can even put a new tag on, even if they see it, they will just ask me to remove I'm assuming.
 
I just found your thread and looked over the data.

Your main panel is very similar to what I have. I am in Santa Clarita, still Los Angeles County, but I am on So Cal Edison for my electric utility power.

I have a Schneider hybrid inverter between my main panel and a small critical loads panel. Without the external CT's, exported power is totally hit or miss going back to the main panel. I ran without CT's in my main panel for over a year, and I just set a fixed current for the back fed to the main panel. That was far from ideal. It looks like the Sol-Ark in your case is only using battery power to run the loads in the backup/critical loads panel. And the exported power reported by the Sol-Ark is the energy going back to the main panel, but only some of it goes to the grid. The rest of it is powering all of the circuits that are still in the main panel. So when the Sol-Ark reports that it exported 40.2 KWHs on April 15th, your main panel may have used 30 KWHs of it, and only 10.2 KWHs were actually exported. But without the CT's you just don't know. If you log into your account on LADWP, can you get hourly energy readings for a single day? I can do that with So Cal Edison. And I was using that data to dial in how much I was exporting before I added the CT's to control it. If nothing else, hopefully, you can find the data for each day to compare with the Sol-Ark data.

$392.07 for a month of electricity beyond your solar production does seem high, but then I noticed it was for 57 days, so almost 2 months. Still a bit more than I would expect, but not as crazy. On April 15th, the Sol-Ark reported you produce 62.3 KWHs of energy from the solar panels. That is a lot of energy. My system on that same day did pretty good at 29 KWHs. I only have 4,800 watts of solar panels, so that works out to my system getting just over 6 sun hours. Do you have over 10 KW of solar panels? Looking at the diagram, you have 28 panels? That could easily be over 10 KW. My panels are 4 year old 300 watt panels, and I only have 16 of them. The odd thing is. my system made over 25 KWHs every day in April except for 4 cloudy days. I would not expect the weather to be that much different if you are still in Los Angeles County. But what I am seeing is the Sol-Ark may be letting your main panel use grid power while it charged the battery on extra solar beyond what the critical loads panel needed. That is a big reason why you need the CT's. It may have even been curtailing off PV Solar power when the battery is full, and it is supporting all the loads in the backup panel.

Do you have the same April-May billing from LADWP for the last year before you had the solar installed? If your energy usage was about the same, I would guess the electric portion of the bill might have been just over $1,000 as the Sol-Ark and solar panels produced about 2/3 of your energy needs. By any chance are you charging an electric car? or 2 of them? I am seeing a lot of double pole 240 volt breakers in your main panel. What all is in that main panel, you have a lot of circuits?

Yes, you really need to add the CT's to get the Sol-Ark to know what your demand is back in the main panel. Where is your actual main breaker? It that the big 4 pole at the bottom? Could the CT's fit on the cables or bars going into that?

It appears you have over double the PV panel power I have. So your system should produce about 16 Megawatt hours a year. April and May are my highest production months, but that will vary with your panel angles. You certainly use a lot more electricity than I do.
 
I just found your thread and looked over the data.

Your main panel is very similar to what I have. I am in Santa Clarita, still Los Angeles County, but I am on So Cal Edison for my electric utility power.

I have a Schneider hybrid inverter between my main panel and a small critical loads panel. Without the external CT's, exported power is totally hit or miss going back to the main panel. I ran without CT's in my main panel for over a year, and I just set a fixed current for the back fed to the main panel. That was far from ideal. It looks like the Sol-Ark in your case is only using battery power to run the loads in the backup/critical loads panel. And the exported power reported by the Sol-Ark is the energy going back to the main panel, but only some of it goes to the grid. The rest of it is powering all of the circuits that are still in the main panel. So when the Sol-Ark reports that it exported 40.2 KWHs on April 15th, your main panel may have used 30 KWHs of it, and only 10.2 KWHs were actually exported. But without the CT's you just don't know. If you log into your account on LADWP, can you get hourly energy readings for a single day? I can do that with So Cal Edison. And I was using that data to dial in how much I was exporting before I added the CT's to control it. If nothing else, hopefully, you can find the data for each day to compare with the Sol-Ark data.

$392.07 for a month of electricity beyond your solar production does seem high, but then I noticed it was for 57 days, so almost 2 months. Still a bit more than I would expect, but not as crazy. On April 15th, the Sol-Ark reported you produce 62.3 KWHs of energy from the solar panels. That is a lot of energy. My system on that same day did pretty good at 29 KWHs. I only have 4,800 watts of solar panels, so that works out to my system getting just over 6 sun hours. Do you have over 10 KW of solar panels? Looking at the diagram, you have 28 panels? That could easily be over 10 KW. My panels are 4 year old 300 watt panels, and I only have 16 of them. The odd thing is. my system made over 25 KWHs every day in April except for 4 cloudy days. I would not expect the weather to be that much different if you are still in Los Angeles County. But what I am seeing is the Sol-Ark may be letting your main panel use grid power while it charged the battery on extra solar beyond what the critical loads panel needed. That is a big reason why you need the CT's. It may have even been curtailing off PV Solar power when the battery is full, and it is supporting all the loads in the backup panel.

Do you have the same April-May billing from LADWP for the last year before you had the solar installed? If your energy usage was about the same, I would guess the electric portion of the bill might have been just over $1,000 as the Sol-Ark and solar panels produced about 2/3 of your energy needs. By any chance are you charging an electric car? or 2 of them? I am seeing a lot of double pole 240 volt breakers in your main panel. What all is in that main panel, you have a lot of circuits?

Yes, you really need to add the CT's to get the Sol-Ark to know what your demand is back in the main panel. Where is your actual main breaker? It that the big 4 pole at the bottom? Could the CT's fit on the cables or bars going into that?

It appears you have over double the PV panel power I have. So your system should produce about 16 Megawatt hours a year. April and May are my highest production months, but that will vary with your panel angles. You certainly use a lot more electricity than I do.
Thanks for all the info, to answer your questions LADWP doesn't let you look at daily usage. We have 28 panels at 350 watts (LG345N1C-V5), so 9800 watts. Our solar was installed and in use last April and May but it nets out as follows: We used 1472 kwh and exported back -1234 kwh so our net usage was +238 kwh and $100.74. The two 240 breakers are for a hot tub and a sub panel that runs our pool heater.

I also talked to Sol-Ark and they recommended looking at how the batteries are connected since we are using Fortress batteries saying it needs to "switch to Canbus mode of communications" I'm researching that now.
 
Hello all, wanted to thank everyone for the help so far, I finally got my installer to install the CTs. But I think they installed them incorrectly. Maybe someone can confirm. The CTs have arrows on them and according to Sol-Ark they should point towards the meter, my installer has them pointing down away from the meter. Can anyone confirm which is correct? Sorry for all the posts, I've been trying to get someone to come out and look and no one will take the time to do it. I must have spoken to 6 different Solar installers.
 

Attachments

  • CTs.jpg
    CTs.jpg
    229.4 KB · Views: 25
  • Library - 1 of 1.jpeg
    Library - 1 of 1.jpeg
    88.7 KB · Views: 25
Back
Top