Solved: Limited IQ8+ inverter output - JA Solar panels rated for 395 Watts putting out 250 watts (63% of max rated)

[Zwy]

i have 16 JA solar panels that i bought new, and I have 20 sharp panels that i bought used at 5 years old, of which 12 are in one string and the other 8 are in a separate string. . both panels were rated at 200 watts. neither puts out its max power but the 12 Sharp's put out more than the 16 JA solar ones hands down, and they are five years older, i think JA solar is probably overrating their panels output in some fashion.. .so its more of if lightening strikes and the air is filled with fairy dust you might get most of what they are rated at.

thats just my experience with JA Solar. YMMV

I have 16 JA 530W half cell panels and pull full output if there isn't any of that high wispy cloud cover. I have even pulled more than full output in the right conditions such as March, clear sky, snow on ground, and panels tilted to 65 degrees.

The response reminds me of the guy in the Youtube comments of a video posted by a member here that claimed his Sol Ark was pulling 6000W off arrays and the EG4 was only pulling 400W. The actual Sol Ark screen showed about 500W per string.

I will say this about any system that is working sub par. Double and triple check your setup, check your connections, minimize voltage drop, run voltage as high as possible with a SCC. Don't overpanel the SCC, keep amps to a minimum. If you do this, then either the SCC is to blame or the panels.

If you going to bash a product, be prepared to back it up and expect to provide data and possibly videos of everything, same SCC's, VOC, wire, same tilt and distance side by side, the only difference would be the actual panels.

 

[Zwy]

Removed - Still 510 watts.

You should have panels at 65 degree tilt this time of year with your location. I'm 20 miles south of IA/MN border and with today's sun at noon I was seeing over 90% panel output. Sky isn't clear blue, it does have some white tinge to it.

 

[Mike 134]

Thanks for posting the label pictures. Maximum wattage those inverters put out is 290watts. VA is the same as watts for purposes of this post.

 

[Zwy]

Correct, I had them at 21 degrees from perpendicular and they were putting out the same power as they are now at 45 degrees from perpendicular. I know the angle is not ideal but I'm just doing this for testing purposes.

Dump the Enphase and go to a string inverter.

My UPS driver has 14Kw of panels with Enphase inverters. He gets less yield everyday than I do with 8.4Kw, we compare notes. I told him the Enphase does have a high failure rate and usually installers over panel when the Enphase inverters will only pull the rated input.

 

[Solar Guppy]

I'm old school string inverter fan myself, lowest harvest cost choice

 

[aviateur17]

Again, appreciate all of the comments and assistance. My panels are about 150 feet from my garage electric panel. Would you still recommend a string inverter? Would be a lot of wire and DC voltage losses I would think.

 

[Zwy]

Again, appreciate all of the comments and assistance. My panels are about 150 feet from my garage electric panel. Would you still recommend a string inverter? Would be a lot of wire and DC voltage losses I would think.

Panels in series. No shading. If shading is a problem, then you have to work around it.

I run 8S per string, 530W JA Solar panels 420 feet to my house on 10AWG wire. VOC of panels is 49.5V. I have 2 strings, I have 5 wires total running from 8.4Kw of array to house the 420 feet. 2 wires per string and the EGC.

 

[Mike 134]

Again, appreciate all of the comments and assistance. My panels are about 150 feet from my garage electric panel. Would you still recommend a string inverter? Would be a lot of wire and DC voltage losses I would think.

depending how many panels you wire in series you will have less loss once your DC voltage is greater than the 240V ac you're sending back now. Quite possible if your inverter allows it to send back 480V DC, again depending how many panels are in series and the DC input voltage limits of the inverter.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I have 16 JA 530W half cell panels and pull full output if there isn't any of that high wispy cloud cover. I have even pulled more than full output in the right conditions such as March, clear sky, snow on ground, and panels tilted to 65 degrees.

I guess the Solar Fairy is just good to me, you must have been a bad boy.

You remind me of the guy in the Youtube comments of a video posted by a member here that claimed his Sol Ark was pulling 6000W off arrays and the EG4 was only pulling 400W. The actual Sol Ark screen showed about 500W per string.

I will say this about any system that is working sub par. Double and triple check your setup, check your connections, minimize voltage drop, run voltage as high as possible with a SCC. Don't overpanel the SCC, keep amps to a minimum. If you do this, then either the SCC is to blame or the panels.

If you going to bash a product, be prepared to back it up and I expect videos of everything, same SCC's, VOC, wire, same tilt and distance side by side, the only difference would be the actual panels. Are you game to actually prove it or is what you are stating just your opinion?

I do not have to prove anything to you Zwy. what i said is what I have observed. being that installed both sets of panels, the japanese and the chinese side by side on the same roof top at the same angles, using the same controllers... I know that the JA solar's put out less than the 5 year old (at that time) Sharp panels. using the exact same SCC and wiring.

so take your assumptions and stuff them.

 

[Zwy]

I do not have to prove anything to you Zwy. what i said is what I have observed. being that installed both sets of panels, the japanese and the chinese side by side on the same roof top at the same angles, using the same controllers... I know that the JA solar's put out less than the 5 year old (at that time) Sharp panels. using the exact same SCC and wiring.

Show the setup then, my JA Solar put out full output in good sun.

I do everything wrong I guess but still get excellent results. I have the wrong brand of solar panels, the wrong MPPT's as one member here and a commenter to his Youtube video claim, don't over panel arrays, don't use the latest and greatest product, don't use Blue Eurotrash and a whole list of things I must be doing "wrong", yet I get results opposite the "experiences" of others.

so take your assumptions and stuff them.

Comments like this certainly won't explain why you believe you see a difference. Without digging deeper, the assumption is the JA Solar put out less. Yet my "experience" is exactly opposite.

 

[HRTKD]

Folks, stay on topic and avoid personal attacks. You've been warned.

 

[400bird]

The subject says solved. Can someone point me to the solution?

 

[aviateur17]

The subject says solved. Can someone point me to the solution?

@400bird, The IQ8+ was the reason the power was being limited to 250 watts per inverter. Now I don't have the Enphase Envoy to reprogram the inverter so it could just be programmed for 250 watts by default but the inverter is rated at 290 watts continuous so that's what I expected when I purchased them. So the answer to my question was that the inverter was limiting the power output. Yesterday I received an APSystems DS3-L inverter and was seeing at least 600 watts from it in the noon sun (2 identical panels connected) so each panel was putting out 300 watts. This confirmed that the issue was the IQ8+ inverter limiting the power output.

 

[400bird]

@400bird, The IQ8+ was the reason the power was being limited to 250 watts per inverter. Now I don't have the Enphase Envoy to reprogram the inverter so it could just be programmed for 250 watts by default but the inverter is rated at 290 watts continuous so that's what I expected when I purchased them. So the answer to my question was that the inverter was limiting the power output. Yesterday I received an APSystems DS3-L inverter and was seeing at least 600 watts from it in the noon sun (2 identical panels connected) so each panel was putting out 300 watts. This confirmed that the issue was the IQ8+ inverter limiting the power output.

Interesting, so Enphase IQ8+ micro inverters probably require the Envoy to achieve rated output.

 

[SeaGal]

Interesting, so Enphase IQ8+ micro inverters probably require the Envoy to achieve rated output.

But what use are Enphase IQ8+ micro inverters when, even at their rated output, can only produce 290W when most panels are 400W these days?

 

[Hedges]

What's the PTC or NOCT rating of those panels?

That's a shortcoming I see of microinverters, can't get them certified and released fast enough to keep up with panels. Far more complexity than just a larger sheet of glass. If too small, PV gets left on the table. If too large, customer pays extra for nothing.

With string inverters, you can configure series/parallel to utilize almost anything. (but have similar issue with RSD boxes. At least those don't have to be designed to process watts, just pass amps and withstand volts.)

 

[fromport]

Interesting, so Enphase IQ8+ micro inverters probably require the Envoy to achieve rated output.

No it doesn't.
Any Enphase micro inverter goes to full power from the factory, there is no fine-tuning needed from an Envoy.

The IQ8+ has these input specs:
MPPT voltage range 29 - 45 Volt
Max DC current [module Isc] 15 amps
With the side node: Maximum continuous input DC current is 10.6A

The op's PV panel has these specs:
The are 54 cells (x cut in half = 108 cells) panels. Normal is a 60 cell/120 half cell panel with a higher voltage.
Vmp: 30.84 Volt (within MPPT in range but at the lower end of 29-45 volt of the IQ8+)
Imp 12.51 amp

Since the IQ8+ can not input more than 10.6A there is an issue:

Panel: 30.84V x 12.51A = 385 watt

The IQ8+: 30.84V x 10.6A = 326 watts == 85% of what panel is capable of.
This is just a miss-match between panel & micro inverter choice imo.
Who ever made the decision to couple these 2 just looked at watts and not at the specifics of Volts & Amps.

The Enphase calculator says that they _are_ compatible:

 

[Hedges]

Since the IQ8+ can not input more than 10.6A there is an issue:

The IQ8+ has these input specs:
MPPT voltage range 29 - 45 Volt
Max DC current [module Isc] 15 amps
With the side node: Maximum continuous input DC current is 10.6A

OP confirmed he has IQ8+, and linked a data sheet that said 12A continuous. Does a difference source say 10.6A? Also 27V minimum MPPT. Does a different source say 29V?

Solved: Limited IQ8+ inverter output - JA Solar panels rated for 395 Watts putting out 250 watts (63% of max rated)

Just want to clarify that I'm not looking for the full 395 watt output. I'm wondering why the output doesn't show any peaking but is flat topped all the way from 10AM to 3PM at 250 watts per panel. I would hope that I see 290 watts max due to maxing out the IQ8+ inverter. I can't believe...

diysolarforum.com

Solved: Limited IQ8+ inverter output - JA Solar panels rated for 395 Watts putting out 250 watts (63% of max rated)

Just want to clarify that I'm not looking for the full 395 watt output. I'm wondering why the output doesn't show any peaking but is flat topped all the way from 10AM to 3PM at 250 watts per panel. I would hope that I see 290 watts max due to maxing out the IQ8+ inverter. I can't believe...

diysolarforum.com

Yes, seem to be a couple different data sheets:

https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/2021-10/IQ8-Series-DS-US.pdf

https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/2021-10/IQ8SP-DS-0002-01-EN-US-2021-10-19.pdf

Both list the same "IQ8PLUS-72-2-US" and other lists "IQ8PLUS-72-2-US"

 

[fromport]

OP confirmed he has IQ8+, and linked a data sheet that said 12A continuous. Does a difference source say 10.6A? Also 27V minimum MPPT. Does a different source say 29V?

I have the data from a IQ8 & IQ8+ datasheet named: IQ8SP-DS-0002-01-EN-US-2021-10-19.pdf



&

Yes, seem to be a couple different data sheets:

https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/2021-10/IQ8-Series-DS-US.pdf

https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/2021-10/IQ8SP-DS-0002-01-EN-US-2021-10-19.pdf

That 2nd datasheet with more IQ series micro inverters also shows:
(3) Maximum continuous input DC current is 10.6A.
So I don't see the 12A continuous anywhere in any specs.

Both list the same "IQ8PLUS-72-2-US" and other lists "IQ8PLUS-72-2-US"

The first number after the IQ identification is in general the number of PV cells needed to match

EG:
IQ8-60-2-US == 60 cells panels
IQ8-72-2-US == 72 cells panels.

With the Op's 54 cell it really is a miss-match imo.

 

[Hedges]

First data sheet I linked "September 2023" "Maximum continuous input DC current A ...12"