Storing heat in bricks

[SamLondon]

The point of bricks is 10x delta they can handle. And they stay solid unlike water. Heat exchanger is used to retrieve heat or clever design as with UK storage space heaters.

I ve been reading all your messages. Please don't make me laugh soo hard.
Let me tell you something from the point of physics. Objects like rocks, stones, bricks and sand are releasing heat much quicker. They are fast thermal conductors.
In orders to store heat, you need poor thermal conductors.
Water is the best thermal storage in the world.
Sand or brick as heat battery will never work.
The heat is lost very quick.
They can take a lot of energy, much higher energy than water. But they are not good at holding heat like water does.
I encourage you to get professional advice or do your own research in trusted engineering websites.
All those guys on the page that are talking about using water, are right.
You see? Science can be tricky when you don't listen.
And I have to agree with the guys that posted a lot of lot of messages about thermal heat storages.
Water is the best thermal storage even if it stores little energy. You increase the volume.
You can use multiple insulated oil drums with pressure valves.
You can use submersible 24v 36v 48v heating elements wired directly to the solar panels. No problem with that. Many people have done it already.
You don't need heavy materials to make a tonn of garbage in your property untill you get old. You can just experiment with clean water and send it to a drainage.
Its soo easy to pump it, to get rid of it, to do any maintenance when needed or just to change your home address.
Please listen to the people. You won't dissasemble your brick heating storage.

There was a post about a village where a company built a giant sand battery to store heat in the summer for 6 months, to heat the homes in the village later in the winter. But it never worked. You can't store high temperatures in any solid object even if is reaching the red point for maximum efficiency. It will never work
You know why? Because there is no such insulator on Earth for our needs to store heating energy over the temperature of boiling water.
Water is key for our life on Earth.
Heat storage, mecanical energy for hydropower, drinking source to keep you hydrated so you can enjoy more science.
Drink water and you can relax, slow down, listen, learn to listen first, because science is very tricky when you think you know a lot from it.

 

[SunDave]

I ve been reading all your messages. Please don't make me laugh soo hard.
Let me tell you something from the point of physics. Objects like rocks, stones, bricks and sand are releasing heat much quicker. They are fast thermal conductors.
In orders to store heat, you need poor thermal conductors.
Water is the best thermal storage in the world.
Sand or brick as heat battery will never work.
The heat is lost very quick.
They can take a lot of energy, much higher energy than water. But they are not good at holding heat like water does.
I encourage you to get professional advice or do your own research in trusted engineering websites.
All those guys on the page that are talking about using water, are right.
You see? Science can be tricky when you don't listen.
And I have to agree with the guys that posted a lot of lot of messages about thermal heat storages.
Water is the best thermal storage even if it stores little energy. You increase the volume.
You can use multiple insulated oil drums with pressure valves.
You can use submersible 24v 36v 48v heating elements wired directly to the solar panels. No problem with that. Many people have done it already.
You don't need heavy materials to make a tonn of garbage in your property untill you get old. You can just experiment with clean water and send it to a drainage.
Its soo easy to pump it, to get rid of it, to do any maintenance when needed or just to change your home address.
Please listen to the people. You won't dissasemble your brick heating storage.

There was a post about a village where a company built a giant sand battery to store heat in the summer for 6 months, to heat the homes in the village later in the winter. But it never worked. You can't store high temperatures in any solid object even if is reaching the red point for maximum efficiency. It will never work
You know why? Because there is no such insulator on Earth for our needs to store heating energy over the temperature of boiling water.
Water is key for our life on Earth.
Heat storage, mecanical energy for hydropower, drinking source to keep you hydrated so you can enjoy more science.
Drink water and you can relax, slow down, listen, learn to listen first, because science is very tricky when you think you know a lot from it.

Hi. This is a bit pointed here pal. The point of this forum is not to be heat battery experts. The post is under "experimental".

Your brand of science is the new breed, that attacks anything that is not what you think. That is not the foundations or ideals of science. In fact the opposite.

Just consider all of the science articles titled "new use for ____ found" or "new version of old ____" That alone should create pause.

 

[Warpspeed]

There is "experimenting" and then there is "totally detached from reality".

Many people experimenting with things that totally defy basic well proven thermodynamic principles.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Storing heat in stone mass and releasing it over time, like the masonry soapstone fireplace in my living-room:



Over 2000kg of stone, burn a fire a day very hot, and release the heat over 24 to 36 hours keeping the temperature stable in the house.

 

[MattiFin]

I ve been reading all your messages. Please don't make me laugh soo hard.

AntronX's posts seem to be usually have reasonably solid engineering background even if some things like 1500 Cel insulation or heater strips are not very realistic.
Your post on the other hand was such a pile of nonsense that I don't know where to start.

 

[AntronX]

I will admit I missed the mark on 1500C insulation and materials feasibility when I made this tread.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Geothermal heat storage and sand batteries are a thing - not at 1500C, but 600C or thereabouts.

 

[Warpspeed]

Storing heat in stone mass and releasing it over time, like the masonry soapstone fireplace in my living-room:

People in cold climates have been building homes like this for hundreds if not thousands of years.

Place a massive stone fireplace and stone chimney right in the middle of a smallish house, extending up through a second floor.
Holds heat for days and heats every room.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

People in cold climates have been building homes like this for hundreds if not thousands of years.

Place a massive stone fireplace and stone chimney right in the middle of the house, extending up through a second floor.
Holds heat for days and heats every room.

Yes, exactly. It's in every old building here in the north, and many newer ones too.

 

[SunDave]

There is "experimenting" and then there is "totally detached from reality".

Many people experimenting with things that totally defy basic well proven thermodynamic principles.

Good way to learn those principles first hand huh?

Most truly great breakthroughs through the centuries were, at the time "totally detached from reality".

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

Good way to learn those principles first hand huh?

Most truly great breakthroughs through the centuries were, at the time "totally detached from reality".

To quote Richard Feynman, "Science is questioning the ignorance of the experts."
I doubt there are many here that could compare brainpans with ole Richie.
A quote of his more applicable to me, "I am smart enough to realize I'm dumb."

 

[Partimewages]

The longer you live the more you realize everyone can teach you something if you let them.

 

[OzSolar]

I believe that no one will ever crack the seasonal storage challenge which says more about me than I care to accept.

“In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert’s there are few”
― Shunryu Suzuki,

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true!” - Homer Simpson

 

[MattiFin]

I believe that no one will ever crack the seasonal storage challenge

You should continue that with ...on domestic scale. Thermal storage scales up in a way that 1MWh has big losses but 100GWh is usable for weeks or months.

Vaskiluoto Vaasa is operational with 11 GWh thermal storage and upcoming new plant in my hometown should store 90GWh.

Tesla's Megapacks are rather tiny in this comparision: Largest one in operation is 0.45GWh (Victorian Big Battery)

 

[SunDave]

You should continue that with ...on domestic scale. Thermal storage scales up in a way that 1MWh has big losses but 100GWh is usable for weeks or months.

Vaskiluoto Vaasa is operational with 11 GWh thermal storage and upcoming new plant in my hometown should store 90GWh.

Tesla's Megapacks are rather tiny in this comparision: Largest one in operation is 0.45GWh (Victorian Big Battery)

Interesting. I see this from many angles. The scaling is always tricky.

Delta T (the temp differential) between what you are storing and the outside world is a factor. So keeping something barely over ambient is easy, but offers little in the way of storage. Keeping something a lot over ambient is not easy, but offers a lot of storage. In my mind, there comes a point when you shift thinking from "how much can I store" to "how much can I produce".

For example, if I didn't want to spend the money super-insulating a small high temp over ambient storage of any type (even bricks!), then I could scale it way up in size and have a lower temp delta massive storage setup with relatively less insulation. There are some economies of scale with size, but also massive challenges. At some point, whichever thing you choose to fight, you need an input. So it makes sense to me that at some breakeven point you quit spending on storage and spend on production.

Where that point is, I have no idea. Also future changes in technology could twist the approach.

Very similar to our batteries VS. panels experience with solar.

 

[OzSolar]

You should continue that with ...on domestic scale. Thermal storage scales up in a way that 1MWh has big losses but 100GWh is usable for weeks or months.

Vaskiluoto Vaasa is operational with 11 GWh thermal storage and upcoming new plant in my hometown should store 90GWh.

Tesla's Megapacks are rather tiny in this comparision: Largest one in operation is 0.45GWh (Victorian Big Battery)

But is it really? Data please. I'm still comfortable with my original statement. "No one will ever crack the seasonal heat storage challenge."

Can you reference an example of a single economically feasible heat storage system, on any scale, whose data isn't intermixed with other energy sources?

 

[SunDave]

But is it really? Data please. I'm still comfortable with my original statement. "No one will ever crack the seasonal heat storage challenge."

Can you reference an example of a single economically feasible heat storage system, on any scale, whose data isn't intermixed with other energy sources?

Well. Economically feasible is a completely different ball game I would be interested in that as well.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Can you reference an example of a single economically feasible heat storage system, on any scale, whose data isn't intermixed with other energy sources?

Finland’s largest electric boiler and thermal energy storage combination launched in Vaasa - Vaasan Voima

New electric boilers with a capacity of 120 megawatts and an extended thermal energy storage...

www.vaasanvoima.fi

That's what I can quickly find in English.

 

[MattiFin]

But is it really? Data please. I'm still comfortable with my original statement. "No one will ever crack the seasonal heat storage challenge."

Can you reference an example of a single economically feasible heat storage system, on any scale, whose data isn't intermixed with other energy sources?

Sorry, no solid data available as everything is just handwaving how green it is.

Million cubic metre 90GWh thermal storage project in Finland could begin construction next year

A seasonal heat storage plant which will have a capacity of about 90GWh looks set to begin construction next year in Vantaa, Finland, with water stored in underground caverns heated to 140°C using renewable energy and waste heat.

www.energy-storage.news

Remains to be seen but I think there is a bit more solid engineering behind that project than dozen half-witted sand batteries on this forum.

Vaskiluoto linked by upnorthandpersonal is not really seasonal storage, more of day-week level storage. Also kind of revealing how far we are still with the batteries as it has 20 times more capacity than largest Tesla megapack site.