What I'm learning about DIY Enphase and Hoymiles Microinverters

[Ampster]

There is no way to activate IQ8 inverters without being certified,

Can they be provisioned without the person doing the install needing to be certified? That is what I did with my IQ7s and a used Envoy.

 

[ChrisG]

I installed an IQ7 system with a used Envoy and they work just fine. I would hope that the IQ8 is the same way as far as just being a GT, grid dependant inverter. The OP added the System Controller so that he could run his IQ8 off grid. That is where the "hassle" he described came about. After I got that system approved and received my PTO, I installed my Outback Skybox.

This^^^. You and I are aligned 100% @Ampster. If I need to go though basic training/cert to get IQ7 or 8 to have this minimum config I’m fine with that. My questions have been around the components list between 7 and 8 for very basic grid tie.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

Can they be provisioned without needing to be certified?

I haven't done it. I had storage, it would not let me proceed. Without storage was not an option for me.
@fromport seems to say it does not require certification.
My friend called Enphase and they told him he does need the installer certification.

So I'm thoroughly confused.

 

[Ampster]

You still need the Wifi adapter to communicate with the Envoy over wifi

I used an Ethernet cable and Bluetooth to provision my IQ7s. No Wifi adaptor was needed. I assume that is the case with the IQ8s?

 

[fromport]

I’m trying to simply understand if the basic enphase parts are the same for IQ7 and 8:

Yes

micro->combiner with envoy->electrical panel. I know there are other parts in between all that but trying to understand the minimum for simple grid tie.

Design wise ( for grid tie only) no difference if you setup iq7 or iq8.

 

[Ampster]

I haven't done it. I had storage, it would not let me proceed. Without storage was not an option for me.

Please clarify. It would not let you proceed with the System Controller 2 or you could not provision the IQ8s in the Envoy?

 

[Ampster]

Design wise ( for grid tie only) no difference if you setup iq7 or iq8.

Thank you for clarifying. I asked @ncsolarelectric the same question.

 

[fromport]

. You still need the Wifi adapter to communicate with the Envoy over wifi.

Iq envoy :

• 802.11B /G /N integrated wi-fi

IQ Envoy™, a communication gateway for a smart energy system | Enphase Communication

Enphase IQ Envoy communications gateway delivers solar production and energy consumption data to the Enphase app for remote maintenance and management of the IQ System.

enphase.com

 

[fromport]

This^^^. You and I are aligned 100% @Ampster. If I need to go though basic training/cert to get IQ7 or 8 to have this minimum config I’m fine with that. My questions have been around the components list between 7 and 8 for very basic grid tie.

If you buy iq7 or 8 and just hook them up without envoy it even works.
No monitoring, some states (California for sure) won't you let hook up grid tie without proof of setting of the right grid configuration ( rule21 in Cali).

 

[Ampster]

So I'm thoroughly confused.

The question was about provisioning the IQ8s.Thanfully, @fromport answered the question. Actually when I bought the used Envoy, Enphase support was helpful getting the previous owners name removed from the login. That was two or three years ago. I reinstalled it a year ago with some new IQ7s.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

This is what I mean about Enphase being a Corporate Control Freak. I just received this letter. More inflation. Anything to increase their profit margins.

Dear valued installer,

In 2021 Enphase launched the ability for the Enphase Energy System to seamlessly integrate a compatible AC standby generator for additional power during extended grid outages. This unique integration allows a generator to operate simultaneously with solar to charge IQ Batteries and support home loads with a glitch-free user experience. You can learn more about generator support on our website.

Note that installers must take the Generator Support certification training prior to commissioning Enphase systems with generators. Add it to your course list.

Starting September 30, 2022, Enphase will charge a per-system activation fee for generator integration.

Installers will be able to purchase a token in advance and use that to unlock this feature when setting up a generator site in the Enphase Installer Portal. Tokens will be available from distributors or via the Enphase store.

Detailed instructions on how to purchase and apply tokens will be coming soon.

Thank you for trusting Enphase.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

Please clarify. It would not let you proceed with the System Controller 2 or you could not provision the IQ8s in the Envoy?

It would not let me provision the IQ8s, period, until I was fully certified. There was no way around it, Enphase told me so. Maybe, if I removed the SC2, and Load Controller, and took them off the app, it may have worked, but they didn't suggest it, and I didn't try it.

 

[Ampster]

This is what I mean about Enphase being a Corporate Control Freak. I just received this letter. More inflation. Anything to increase their profit margins.

Maybe you should change the title of your thread? It has evolved from a useful thread about DIYing an IQ8 system for off grid to something else. I do not mean that to be an insult.

 

[ChrisG]

If you buy iq7 or 8 and just hook them up without envoy it even works.
No monitoring, some states (California for sure) won't you let hook up grid tie without proof of setting of the right grid configuration ( rule21 in Cali).

@fromport
So in theory on the ground, you can setup a combiner, a single IQ8 with panel, wired to service panel to unit test each one on the ground before hauling up and wiring on the roof without enphase permission? Validation could be done via a clamp meter I assume

 

[ncsolarelectric]

@fromport
So in theory on the ground, you can setup a combiner, a single IQ8 with panel, wired to service panel to unit test each one on the ground before hauling up and wiring on the roof without enphase permission? Validation could be done via a clamp meter I assume

That depends on your utility's rules. My utility, Energy United will not allow me to energize the system until it has passed the final inspection. If you can prevent it from exporting, how would they know?

 

[ChrisG]

That depends on your utility's rules. My utility, Energy United will not allow me to energize the system until it has passed the final inspection. If you can prevent it from exporting, how would they know?

Duke Power here so I get. I have a lot of high loads at primary residence, 5ton Heat pump, 3ton Heat pump, and a pool pump being a few and I am consistently pulling 1.5kw if not more so only connecting one will be absorbed right away. Simply to test each one.

 

[fromport]

@fromport
So in theory on the ground, you can setup a combiner, a single IQ8 with panel, wired to service panel to unit test each one on the ground before hauling up and wiring on the roof without enphase permission? Validation could be done via a clamp meter I assume

The most simple setup is to hook up an IQ cable to 240 volt (only uses 2 wires because double insulation) , plug in micro , plug in PV panel.
See led go through startup phase and 310 seconds later it should start pushing power into the grid, measurable with a clamp meter.
No need for combiner. Testing all panels would have the 5 minute delay when you switch out the panels to be tested.
If you go for a permitted system, some states ask you to show the confirmation of the right grid setting.
In that case if you do the whole provisioning, at the end of the procedure, enphase gives you a pdf with all equipment, serial numbers, and grid settings. All inspectors I have encountered want a copy for their records (cover their a*) to have proof it was set for the right grid (again i am in cali and we need to have it set to "rule21")

But yeah, not hard to check/do at all imo and you can even do it as an individual.

 

[ChrisG]

The most simple setup is to hook up an IQ cable to 240 volt (only uses 2 wires because double insulation) , plug in micro , plug in PV panel.
See led go through startup phase and 310 seconds later it should start pushing power into the grid, measurable with a clamp meter.
No need for combiner. Testing all panels would have the 5 minute delay when you switch out the panels to be tested.
If you go for a permitted system, some states ask you to show the confirmation of the right grid setting.
In that case if you do the whole provisioning, at the end of the procedure, enphase gives you a pdf with all equipment, serial numbers, and grid settings. All inspectors I have encountered want a copy for their records (cover their a*) to have proof it was set for the right grid (again i am in cali and we need to have it set to "rule21")

But yeah, not hard to check/do at all imo and you can even do it as individual.

Thank you all. This build will be done in phases and permitted. End state is to have a hybrid inverter frequency shift in a critical loads sub panel fed by enphase system and hybrid. Will have bypass for hybrid if direct grid is needed to sub panel. Based on everything I read, it just seems so much easier going this way compared to DC PV coming from roof, RSD at panel level, etc.

 

[cs1234]

Anybody taking bets on when Enphase starts requiring a monthly subscription with some of their equipment? They make nice stuff, already charge a premium, have government rules protecting their market from cheap knock off competitors, and yet they still want to charge extra to allow a generator to couple up.

 

[Ampster]

All inspectors I have encountered want a copy for their records (cover their a*) to have proof it was set for the right grid (again i am in cali and we need to have it set to "rule21")

Interesting.
In Sonoma County my inspector was more concerned with my DIY gaffs and did not ask about the grid profile. I didn't have the Envoy installed when I got finaled so I had no way to prove that anyway I had assumed, since I bought the IQ7s new in California that they would already be set up that way. Later when doing a software upgrade on the Envoy I also uploaded the complete list of profiles and was amazed at how many iterations of Rule 21 there were.