Bluedog225
Texas
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2019
- Messages
- 2,914
143 eff? Wow. Though that’s the temp of the pavement outside. Wish I were kidding.
What I'm learning about DIY Enphase and Hoymiles Microinverters
- Thread starter ncsolarelectric
- Start date
Larry Oswald
New Member
What an awesome discussion. With all the regulations it seems you go with either a professional installed microinverter grid tie system on your house's roof or you stick up some panels in a tree, buy some stuff from China and locate some long and heavy extension cords to run your appliances. OR BOTH. That is what I am doing. Two batteries arrive Tuesday and I will be ready to test. What I need from the NCsolar guy is a source for fifty or one hundred foot 240VAC 8awg external use extension cords. I have a couple 3.0KVA center tap transformers ready to go. If all goes well I will put up a car port with fifteen panels for decking using the trunks from all the trees I need to cut down. Thanks to everyone for the entertaining information and opinions. Just kidding about the tree trunks. I have 4x4s.
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el-guapin
Trust no One
With the recent heat wave here in the south, my panel temps have been over 145°F!. Production has taken a hit for sure.
ncsolarelectric
Engineering Support CEO
wireandcableyourway.com. You want Type TC-ER Tray cable. #8/3 wire. It is crush-proof PVC coated, THWN wire. It is approved in the US for Exposed Run, Direct Sunlight, and Direct Burial, so you don't need a conduit at all with this. It just requires a water-tight gland going into your box or switch. The Hoymiles microinveters use this #10/3 for the AC run, up to 24A per circuit, 30A breaker. You don't need a professional installer, just an electrician to make the final interconnection. Very cool stuff!
Bluedog225
Texas
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2019
- Messages
- 2,914
Hey Todd-Curious if we are any closer to off-grid micros? I’ve got a big pile of panels and will start ground mounting when it cools off. Would love to throw a dozen on the roof.
ncsolarelectric
Engineering Support CEO
None that I know of. My meter for testing the HM zero-export function, and export/var control functions won't ship until 8/23. So I've got another couple of weeks to wait until I can test that function. If it works fast enough, then they should be able to pair with an off-grid inverter as I did with my Enphase IQB3T. The IQ8 is the only one I know of that can honestly work off-grid, but it requires you have a grid connection and the SC2 and a cell modem to use it.
Hello to the enphase experts here.. I have 30 panels ground mounted 200 feet south of my home. Current plan is to combine 3 branches of10 panels each and then route to the Enphase combiner box located at the panels as well.
Then run the total array (3 branches of 10 panels each ~50Amps 240V) from the Enphase combiner box in a suitable buried wire to my home, to an AC disconnect switch mounted on the home exterior for emergency shut down if needed.
I decided to keep the combiner box near the array, due to concerns about power line communication over the long run, and a desire to avoid running three sets of wires from the array 200 feet to my home. Is there anything wrong with this approach?
I see that most folks install panels on the roof, and then wire up the combiner box on a wall at ground level. So most folks have a short run from the panels to the Enphase combiner box then a second short run to the main panel to supply the generated solar to the home.
Plan is to use wifi to communicate with the combiner box, using a mesh router extension placed in an outbuilding about 140 feet away from the array. If that doesn't work , I will also bury a cat 5 cable in the trench, and connect but I am hoping I won't need to use that approach.
Thanks for any feedback, ideas for my install.
Then run the total array (3 branches of 10 panels each ~50Amps 240V) from the Enphase combiner box in a suitable buried wire to my home, to an AC disconnect switch mounted on the home exterior for emergency shut down if needed.
I decided to keep the combiner box near the array, due to concerns about power line communication over the long run, and a desire to avoid running three sets of wires from the array 200 feet to my home. Is there anything wrong with this approach?
I see that most folks install panels on the roof, and then wire up the combiner box on a wall at ground level. So most folks have a short run from the panels to the Enphase combiner box then a second short run to the main panel to supply the generated solar to the home.
Plan is to use wifi to communicate with the combiner box, using a mesh router extension placed in an outbuilding about 140 feet away from the array. If that doesn't work , I will also bury a cat 5 cable in the trench, and connect but I am hoping I won't need to use that approach.
Thanks for any feedback, ideas for my install.
littleboss
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2022
- Messages
- 6
Researching solar systems today I came across a company that is selling a system that used Enphase inverters- I don't think I am supposed to link to it so I won't but I asked them how they were going to warranty an Enphase system when you are supposed to take all of those online courses. Their response was "The warranty claims will go directly through us, and we will assist in getting you replacements if needed."
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
That sounds line a good plan. I am a big fan of hardwired Ethernet so if you already have a trench open that is a good backup strategy to throw in some Cat 5 cable. I have a shed 150 away and my mesh network does not always work at that distance for some devices.
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
No idea what happens where you are but that's how it works in Australia.
The retailer/supplier/installer you purchased goods or services from is responsible for provision of warranty support and that warranty cannot be any less than is defined under Australian Consumer Law. It is against the law for a seller to tell you it's not their responsibility and to go claim warranty support from the manufacturer.
In cases where the seller no longer exists, then the manufacturer is responsible for picking the warranty obligations.
This means manufacturers tend to be a bit more selective about who they choose to sell their products as dealing with a smaller number of retailers for warranty claims support is easier than dealing with thousands of consumers directly.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Then you rely on the installer and presumably they may get some compensation for their labor from Enphase or have that built into their price.
For what it is worth, I did a self install in June 2021 and did not take any classes. Shortly after the install one inverter went offline and I did a replacement online through Enphase. It was all done in the Enlighten Manager software. Apparently I got the Enlighten Manager software when I bought a used Encore and emailed Enphase support to get it registered in my name and they gave me a Manager login. I think today, you have to take the class or pay for access to Manager software.
ncsolarelectric
Engineering Support CEO
My meter arrived. I had to ask Hoymiles to upgrade the firmware in the DTU but as of this morning, it is communicating with the WattNode meter via RS485, and I was able to enter a new maximum export kW value and watch the inverter output change within seconds. Very slick!
Next are the load and transient tests to see how quickly it updates when the load changes. I'll keep y'all posted. The inverter runs like a champ on a 48Vdc battery with a 0.2 Ohm series resistor and a 15A fast-blow DC fuse. I now have a functional 2.56kWh peak-shaving energy storage system! I'm currently operating at a maximum of 356Wac, but I can easily connect the HM-1500NT, and have a 1.438 kWac output. Doubling what I get from my Enphase IQ Battery 3T.
Hello ... I am in the process of completing my long journey of installing 30 panels with enphase Iq7A inverters, and have now completed the required installer training. Title is "Enphase Solar Installation training " .
To double check my result, and confirm my ability to complete the full activation or in Enphase Speak "Provision" my system. I used the online system to send an email to tech support, asking them to confirm my installer status.
They replied that I needed to take at least a second class called "Enphase Storage Design Certification", and was sent a link that had a ton of information, on classes and installers.
I am 95% complete with the Second Class, and NCsolarelectric suggested that I call the 800 technical support number for clarification of exactly what classes were needed for my Enphase Solar only install.
When I called they indicated that all I needed to "provision" my Solar only install was the one class and certification all ready completed, and said that the prior email was just a computerized response and not perfectly accurate.
I just received an email from Enphase, I am deleting the names, just for privacy... When I asked him to "put it in writing" he went on hold for a few minutes, then said.. the Supervisor agrees, and you will get an email.
So.. as of today.. Sept 1 2022, if you are certified in Enphase University in one (1) course listed above, you can provision systems, and I assume if the system says that there will not be any "warranty" issues.
Of course in my case I am also installing a Solark and Batteries.. but that has nothing to do with Enphase.
===========================================
This is xxxxx with Enphase, because this system (330xxyyzz) is an IQ7A Only system without storage, the PV Installation Certification should be the only certification you need.
Thanks!
===========================================
To double check my result, and confirm my ability to complete the full activation or in Enphase Speak "Provision" my system. I used the online system to send an email to tech support, asking them to confirm my installer status.
They replied that I needed to take at least a second class called "Enphase Storage Design Certification", and was sent a link that had a ton of information, on classes and installers.
I am 95% complete with the Second Class, and NCsolarelectric suggested that I call the 800 technical support number for clarification of exactly what classes were needed for my Enphase Solar only install.
When I called they indicated that all I needed to "provision" my Solar only install was the one class and certification all ready completed, and said that the prior email was just a computerized response and not perfectly accurate.
I just received an email from Enphase, I am deleting the names, just for privacy... When I asked him to "put it in writing" he went on hold for a few minutes, then said.. the Supervisor agrees, and you will get an email.
So.. as of today.. Sept 1 2022, if you are certified in Enphase University in one (1) course listed above, you can provision systems, and I assume if the system says that there will not be any "warranty" issues.
Of course in my case I am also installing a Solark and Batteries.. but that has nothing to do with Enphase.
===========================================
This is xxxxx with Enphase, because this system (330xxyyzz) is an IQ7A Only system without storage, the PV Installation Certification should be the only certification you need.
Thanks!
===========================================
el-guapin
Trust no One
Have you submitted a system design for review? This was required at least when I went through the process.
No. I have not. No one has suggested it was a requirement. My install is about as simple as it gets from enphase's viewpoint it's 30 panels and 30 iq7a inverters. Ground mount.
As long as I have something from them in writing with my site ID indicating I can provision with my one certification I'm hoping that's the end of it.
time will tell.
Cpu
fromport
Solar Addict
For provisioning a PV only, no storage, no PV backup, you don't need that.
Just get the "Enphase Solar Installation training" cert and you will good to go.
Can’t believe I didn’t know about this thread before now.
Adding a post primarily so I can find the easily through ‘Threads with your posts’ but I also have an observation and a question.
The observation is that in general, the rules regarding use of Microinverters and ESS get much more complicated / dangerous when used for backup / grid-forming than when merely used to offset load whole grid-tied.
That is my primary interest, especially as California moves towards changing the rules regarding solar to make self-use a near-requirement.
For that use-case, the freedom to move between zero-export and export-below-NEM-cap is an important feature and I’m impressed that with your Hoymiles-based ESS system you were able to configure an export limit.
Would you mind to recap the minimum necessary hardware along with cost to be able to program the export limit for a Hoymiles-based AC-coupled solar/battery generator?
And a final comment is that there is probably at least one if not two interesting new threads that could be spun off from this as you move out of experiment mode into ‘look what I’ve got working mode.’
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
If I recall correctly. His ESS is Enphase. I do not recall that Hoymiles has an ESS. I think what @ncsolarelectric has demonstrated is the Hoymiles can AC couple and he can confirm whether he has been able to demonstrate export limiting with the Hoymiles without additional hardware and software.
ncsolarelectric
Engineering Support CEO
Without making this into a sales pitch, which is forbidden here.Can’t believe I didn’t know about this thread before now.
Adding a post primarily so I can find the easily through ‘Threads with your posts’ but I also have an observation and a question.
The observation is that in general, the rules regarding use of Microinverters and ESS get much more complicated / dangerous when used for backup / grid-forming than when merely used to offset load whole grid-tied.
That is my primary interest, especially as California moves towards changing the rules regarding solar to make self-use a near-requirement.
For that use-case, the freedom to move between zero-export and export-below-NEM-cap is an important feature and I’m impressed that with your Hoymiles-based ESS system you were able to configure an export limit.
Would you mind to recap the minimum necessary hardware along with cost to be able to program the export limit for a Hoymiles-based AC-coupled solar/battery generator?
And a final comment is that there is probably at least one if not two interesting new threads that could be spun off from this as you move out of experiment mode into ‘look what I’ve got working mode.’
The export limit works great. It's not super fast, but It can switch output several times in a matter of 20-30 seconds. It does both power/freq modulation and throttles back the output of my HM inverters to zero when my Enphase system is exporting. I need someone who knows how to write code for RS485 control over the battery charger based on the meter status so it charges when there is excess production, not when there is a load to power.
Other than that, my ESS has been working for a couple of months. I'm on Rev 3 of the control board which handles pre-charge, current limit, battery undervoltage shutdown, and battery charged restart. I'm using a 120VAC battery charger on a timer so it charges in the afternoon when my Enphase system is charged and exporting.
The problem with the battery backup and the HM inverters is the Encharge kicks them off-line with a rapid frequency shift when the power goes out. Then in 5 minutes, the HM inverters recover and add their power to the microgrid. As soon as my Rev. 3 board is tested, I'm going to test this with Enphase IQ8+ microinverters on the battery side instead, and see if they will transfer with the Encharge without dropping the load. That would be nice!
What is needed is the WattNode WND-WR-MB meter. Not the SolarEdge meter, which is an older version. Also required are two CTs, rated 200A or whatever your main panel is rated, and have a 0.333Vac output. Also, a twisted pair of wires connect the RS485 from the meter to the HM Data Transfer Unit (DTU). The DTU Pro is required. Then, just log in to the online portal, add the meter and serial number, turn on Export control, and set up the Export limit kW. Takes about 2 or 3 minutes. It was very easy IMO. There are also guides available, attached.
The meter is not cheap List price with the two CTs and shipping is just over $600. It cost me more because I thought I could get the SolarEdge meter to work, but it's not the same, so I wasted $90 on that, and two Chint meters that don't have UL. Don't make my mistakes! The WattNode meter works great, it's just pricey.
