California Members: NEM3.0 impact on NEM1/2 customers and what to do?

[Ampster]

If there is a 20 year limit, do people go from NEM 1 to NEM 2 or just jump to 3 right away? If there is a 20 year limit, we shoul have gotten NEM 2 now.

That is a good question. There is definitely a 20 years limit. The odds are that the transition from and expired NEM 1.0 will most likely not be in your favor. I remember something in the long discussions about NEM 3.0 that the utilities needed some time before they were able to adjust their billing. Maybe that is where you are. If it were me, I would hedge my bets and apply under NEM 2.0. Even if you have to change the configurations slightly or add some micros it could protect you on the downside.

 

[fromport]

If there is a 20 year limit, do people go from NEM 1 to NEM 2 or just jump to 3 right away? If there is a 20 year limit, we shoul have gotten NEM 2 now.

Afaik you go from whatever NEM you were in to what what is actual when it ends.
In your case NEM2, people who's NEM expire past the NEM2 date will be migrated to NEM3

 

[Ampster]

I'm thinking we might have NEM (NEM1) "forever"? No 20 year limit?

My NEM 2.0 bill also just says NEM. The limit was discussed extensively during the debates and it was even suggested that the Investor Owned Utilities could shorten the existing limits at some time in the future. That was the reasoning behind my pessimistic view that any outcome would not be in your favor. I hope you are wrong. At another property, have a twelve year old NEM 1.0 Aggregation account and am exposed because it sounds like NEM V and NEM A are going away.

 

[Calvin98]

Afaik you go from whatever NEM you were in to what what is actual when it ends.
In your case NEM2, people who's NEM expire past the NEM2 date will be migrated to NEM3

That is the question. Some say "grandfathered in" some "20 year limit." Our and our neighbors NEM 1 20 year period was up months and years ago, but everything looks to be the same right now. They don't pay anything for what they feed into the grid (same as before). For us, the only thing that changed is that the true-up occurred 1 month earlier than in the past. So you think we actually have NEM 2 now? If so, don;t we have to pay in like $0.10/kwh that we feed in? A neighbor who has NEM 2 has to do that. He got solar about 3-4 years ago. IF the NEW changed, shoudl it not have done so at the trueup time? Or is PG&E "behind" and they will get to us in a while? That does not make sense because they did make a change at 19 years and 11 months, so they should know. All very confusing, hence the questions.

 

[Ampster]

So you think we actually have NEM 2 now?

Do you have Non Bypassable Charges? On my NEM 2.0 bill they are about $0.025/kWh and show as a separate lie item. That would be one clue.

 

[Calvin98]

My NEM 2.0 bill also just says NEM. The limit was discussed extensively during the debates and it was even suggested that the Investor Owned Utilities could shorten the existing limits at some time in the future. That was the reasoning behind my pessimistic view that any outcome would not be in your favor. I hope you are wrong. At another property, have a twelve year old NEM 1.0 Aggregation account and am exposed because it sounds like NEM V and NEM A are going away.

Oh, by the way, the utility interconnection docs don't mention anywhare any sort of "time limit." Nothing about a "20 year limit." If the house is sold in the future, who knows what the new owner will get or of the interconnection agreement goes with the house and not the actual owner.

 

[Calvin98]

Do you have Non Bypassable Charges? On my NEM 2.0 bill they are about $0.025/kWh and show as a separate lie item. That would be one clue.

No, don't see that anywhere. Something new I see is "2022 Vintaged Power Charge Indifference Adjustment" "Your NEW balance will be reconciled on your True-Up statement (08/2023)" The Power Charge Indifference Adjustment was $0.60. and $6.95 going from Dec and Jan.

So true up is in August this year. Last year it was in Sept (1 month early) and for the last 20 years it was in October. More confusion.

 

[Ampster]

Oh, by the way, the utility interconnection docs don't mention anywhare any sort of "time limit." Nothing about a "20 year limit." If the house is sold in the future, who knows what the new owner will get or of the interconnection agreement goes with the house and not the actual owner.

Yes no mention of the 20 year grandfathering, hence my earlier comment that the IOUs could change that at any time. I seem to recall the NEM agreement goes with the meter not the owner. I sold two homes with a NEM solar systems and as far as I have been able to tell the new owners are on NEM. Unfortunately in one case and inverter stopped working and the original installer refused to honor the warranty based on the fact that the new owner did not notify them of the ownership change in a timely manner.

 

[Ampster]

"2022 Vintaged Power Charge Indifference Adjustment" "Your NEW balance will be reconciled on your True-Up statement (08/2023)" The Power Charge Indifference Adjustment was $0.60. and $6.95 going from Dec and Jan.

That means you may have transitioned to a CCA so you may see separate totals, one page, for generation and one page, for distribution and transmission. Some CCAs have a different True Up cycle that the IOUs. None of that will affect your NEM agreement. The CCAs offer slightly better rates in most cases and also offer a cleaner energy mix. I opted into 100% renewable and supposedly my power comes from a geothermal plant nearby.

 

[Calvin98]

That means you may have transitioned to a CCA so you may see separate totals, one page, for generation and one page, for distribution and transmission,

Yes, ok, we did. I still have no idea if that is good or bad for us. All this is getting way too complicated.....

 

[Ampster]

Yes, ok, we did. I still have no idea if that is good or bad for us. All this is getting way too complicated.....

Community Choice Aggregation (CCA) was enabled by the Legislature after the energy crisis over twenty years ago. I am a big fan because they offer an alternative to the IOUs and offer many incentives which the IOUs do not offer. It took many years for them to be implemented although Marin and Sonoma Counties started at least ten years ago. I got a big discount on a charging station from my CCA and there are incentives for installing Heat Pump Water Heaters as well.

 

[Calvin98]

Community Choice Aggregation (CCA) was enabled by the Legislature after the energy crisis over twenty years ago. I am a big fan because they offer an alternative to the IOUs and offer many incentives which the IOUs do not offer. It took many years for them to be implemented although Marin and Sonoma Counties started at least ten years ago. I got a big discount on a charging station from my CCA and there are incentives for installing Heat Pump Water Heaters as well.

One thing that I see is new is a "Generation Credit" It also looks like we got put into a CCA after the 19 year 11 month trueup. I remember seeing a notice that everyone was to be put in automatically unless they manually "opted out." We did not opt out. We also have about $100 in charges from the CCA, but that does not match the "Generation Credit" elsewhere in the bill.

 

[Ampster]

We also have about $100 in charges from the CCA, but that does not match the "Generation Credit" elsewhere in the bill.

The bills are more complicated with a CCA. The Generation credit is not your generation, it is the convoluted way the utility decided to show calculation. Instead of showing pages for generation and transmission/distribution they chose to do it that way. If you compare the Generation Credit to what the CCA page charges, there is a difference, to your benefit. Some of this may be absorbed by the Power Charge Indifference Adjustment. The PCIA is a charge to compensate the IOUs for the loss of revenue due to the CCA getting the Generation component of the bill.

 

[Calvin98]

Thanks for the info. Appreciate it! But still don't understand it all. Way back when we got solar and the first bill, PGE sent people 20 page bills with hundreds of numbers listed to the 100th of a penny as I remember. They were probably bills that industrial customers got. Way too confusing for a consumer. The newer blue bills were much easier to read, but they to are getting complicated again. I still don't know where we are. As far as I can tell, we still have the same net metering but with a CCA added in now and we are past the 20 year point.

Anyone else past 20 years with PG&E? Did anything change? Since NEM was introduced ion 1996, there should be people out there that that have had solar for 27 years. Did any of them get moved to NEM 2?

 

[400bird]

In the long release on NEM3/successor tariff, the one that was actually approved, they specifically called out that NEM 1 contracts coming up on the 20 year transition, would be extended and transfered directly to NEM3 3.
They logic was to simplify it for the customer, vs short time on NEM 2, the quickly to NEM 3, once that's active.

So, you're probably just in the limbo waiting to be kicked into NEM 3.

 

[Calvin98]

In the long release on NEM3/successor tariff, the one that was actually approved, they specifically called out that NEM 1 contracts coming up on the 20 year transition, would be extended and transfered directly to NEM3 3.
They logic was to simplify it for the customer, vs short time on NEM 2, the quickly to NEM 3, once that's active.

So, you're probably just in the limbo waiting to be kicked into NEM 3.

Bummer. If that is really the case there is a good argument to make a change and get into NEM2.
"Coming up to the transition" ->what if you just passed the transition, would you get put in to NEM 2 then?

 

[400bird]

Um, I'm not sure I understand the question. Can you rephrase using dates?

If your NEM 1 ended 11/2022, it's probably just in limbo/extended until the power company implements NEM 3. Let's say you'll get kicked to NEM 3 in 5/2023

If you come out of NEM 1 in 6/2023, you should be transitioned to the currently active plan (NEM 3)

This is all from my reading and interpretation of the ruling.

I tried calling PGE for an unrelated billing issue today.

One of the options was specifically for sunsetting NEM 1 customers. They might be able to best answer your questions.

 

[Hedges]

If you terminate your NEM system?

And the next day file an agreement for an NEM 2.0 system?

Consider a less extreme case. You purchased a house and refused to assume the rooftop PV lease. Seller paid termination fee and system was removed. You later install a customer-owned system. When does your 20 years start?

 

[Calvin98]

Um, I'm not sure I understand the question. Can you rephrase using dates?

If your NEM 1 ended 11/2022, it's probably just in limbo/extended until the power company implements NEM 3. Let's say you'll get kicked to NEM 3 in 5/2023

If you come out of NEM 1 in 6/2023, you should be transitioned to the currently active plan (NEM 3)

This is all from my reading and interpretation of the ruling.

I tried calling PGE for an unrelated billing issue today.

One of the options was specifically for sunsetting NEM 1 customers. They might be able to best answer your questions.

Yes, our 20 years were up several months ago. Neighbors several years ago. Nothing changed for either of us rate wise.
If we do get bumped into NEM 3 would we get a notice of that?
Why did either of us not get any notice of anything when the 20 years were up? Should the neighbor not have received somthing several years ago stating they were on NEM 2 now?

 

[Calvin98]

If you terminate your NEM system?

And the next day file an agreement for an NEM 2.0 system?

Consider a less extreme case. You purchased a house and refused to assume the rooftop PV lease. Seller paid termination fee and system was removed. You later install a customer-owned system. When does your 20 years start?

We could certainly make some changes and refile somehow. Guess we'd have to add rapid shut down devices, but otherwise it is all the same?

If I knew for sure that we'd get put into NEM 3 in the next few months, guaranteed, it would be best to redo the system and file before April 14. Not sure how to do that. Replacing panels can be done easily. I'm just not sure yet. Utility has said nothing and our rates are the same. Again, the agreement does not specify a time limit. But people here have said that does not matter. But again, neighbors are in year 23 or so and they never got put into NEM 2. Why not if the limit is 20 years?