diy solar

diy solar

few questions about solar power....

My 2 cents -

Not what you said wrong per say, it is that you ask for advice and then refuse to take any of it.

You also haven't educated yourself on the fundamentals of very basic electricity. You can do this watching youtube to understand current, voltage, and resistance. You have been on here since August asking mostly the same questions over and over.

Playing with solar and batteries and wiring without understanding the first thing about them is a recipe for a fire or worse. Even a car battery can be dangerous when pushed over its limits, but most people don't think of that. Most think that at 12v they can just do whatever and nothing bad will happen.

Your pocket book means for every choice you have to cut corners or you are heavily inclined to. Everyone has the same choice except the uber wealthy. You moved to the Philippines for a cheaper cost of living. We all get that. Nothing wrong with that in fact. But a trade off is that it is harder to get quality parts for a reasonable price. Instead you are hood-winked by your neighbors because you don't understand the first thing about electricity.

Now - I am going out on a limb here and going to say you either didn't visit a local shop that might sell what you want and need and explain everything about it, or you did and didn't like the prices so you ordered online to save money and you have instead wasted money. I could be totally wrong about that.

If you want more help there are others that will give it, but they will have the expectation you can understand their answers when put in layman terms. If you can't do that then just spend some time reading the forum and watching videos about how stuff works verse just 'how to do it'. Every project is different and to adapt you need to understand why things are done or know when an answer is right verse a guess.

So, the safest thing I can recommend to you at this point is to -
Read and watch videos until you know how to measure current, voltage, and resistance.
Know the difference between PWM and MPPT SCC.
See what the average watts per square meter of current solar panels are.
Know how batteries are rated and what types there are. You should be looking at LFP (LiFePO4).
Know what the average weight is for the battery size you are interested in.
Know the common types of fuses you might need. (MRBF, ANL, Mega, class T)
Know what size wire can carry what amps safely - this is important to not starting fires.
Know what connectors go on the ends of the wires - a crimper, lugs, and wire are a lot cheaper than buying pre-made. And a bad crimp (one done with just a pair of plyers) is a fire hazard. and you loose watts through it.
Realize if something is to good to be true when pricing things, it is. A local store can't sell a 1000w inverter for $5 so the online shop can't either.


Then once you know all that the next step is to go see the guy in town and see if he offers a turn-key solar system that is small. Then look at every piece he lays out and see if what he is telling you is correct. Question him if it isn't. When I was there 35 years ago the locals would take any advantage they could of you, dunno if that has changed or not. But, if you know the normal size for a 100w panel and he brings out one 1/4th the size you know he isn't being truthful and you can call him on that. If he brings out an 80lb battery that is supposed to be a LFP (and is marked as such) weighing 40lbs you can call him on it. If he brings out a SCC marked as MPPT but it is as small as the one you currently have you can call him on it. After a couple times he will either bring out the stuff you want or you can leave.

Only by being an educated customer there can you keep from being taken advantage of. AND - if something doesn't work out you can take stuff back and ask questions


And, NOTE - if you think someone is offering bad advice be prepared to offer up why you think it is bad. Then listen to what they explain about it.
i actually find that using youtube to be difficult for information difficult as the majority comes from India/Bharat and i have my doubts that they are doing things correctly as their education isnt anytwhere near that of my frigid home... i use my little DC knowledge from tesla engineering class and my automobile mechanics school....

not sure how i got to this point but i have this feeling that if you pour anything into a battery .. like pitcher that it will stay and be stored... yes i google certain queeries but i almost never put it into practice unless i can confirm its effectiveness.. like the epsom salt thing and no i didnt try yet...however i did order a trickle charger.. just in case i ever need one.. yes im skeptical to series link batteries because im not familiar with anything more than the 12v common in most cars...
 
OK,

So, How do you learn best? Books? Paper or electronic? I can recommend a few of each, if they aren't availible there maybe your mum could get them from Amazon and send them to you.

If you want links I can find some good youtube videos and paste the links so you can watch them and understand them and they apply.

I would highly recommend against building your own battery out of cells. There are many points of failure doing that if you don't understand all about lugs, bus bars, cell compression, BMS, UART connections, torque screwdrivers, top balancing, etc.... basically a lot of topics..... If you buy a pre-built battery you will be much safer in the short run. And, besides the parts and tools to build a battery correctly from cells add up to close to more than just buying a pre-built LFP battery.

A couple of for-instance - cells expand and contract when they charge - that means keeping them in a case that doesn't allow that to happen. The bus bars if rigid will put tension and torque on the posts breaking the connections inside the battery. If you don't use a torque screw driver to attach the bus bars to the cells you can cause a high impedance connection that heats when used. Connecting the battery to other devices - if you don't use the correct size cables for the current you draw it can melt and start a fire. If you try to put the cells together under tension (which you should, you must use a separator between the cells to allow for the expansion and doesn't let the outside cases touch. The outside cases come in a type of shrinkwrap that is super thin. The negative post of the battery is connected to the case. so you must insulate everything around the batteries. For compression prevention you need to use something rigid and stiff to apply even pressure across the face and prevent the strapping from bending the corners........ I could go on a long way and still not cover everything ... Lots of ways to either just ruin the cells or to have a fire.

If you don't want to learn the basics of so many topics then you have to take advice and save up to do it right and safe.... safety is #1 ...

Chances are nearly everyone in this forum has started by purchasing stuff before a plan and they realize they didn't get the right stuff and are stuck with it. I did the same when I started down this road. I have a 12v 200ah battery and inverter charger that I intended to run the CPAP. Turned out the battery is way oversize for the project and the charger/inverter is way to loud to use in the bedroom. So I bought a smaller battery and built it up for the cpap like I mentioned before. And the stuff I can't use in the bedroom is now here in my office to act as a UPS for my computers. It is large as the smartups 2200 that needed batteries and it has 6 times the capacity. That would run it for 45 minutes and the new one runs more things for 4.5 hours.
 
oh.. so i SHOULDNT order 4 rectangles of a 3.2v lfp battery (cell??) well most of you were adamant about how much safer lfp is today over SLA... and that nothing will explode or burn away..... i only oredered a BMS.. 4s....it sais "daly" brand name, but most likely an imitation...
my mother has enough in her life dealing with her Parkinsons... i wont be adding any headaches to her life ordering things from amazon for me...
if you can provide a video tutorial on how i should use the 4 cells of 3,2v as a 12v battery... i would appreciate that.. i am kinda dead set n those 4 cells linking together.. i just dont know what gauge wire to connect them all in parallele together...

oh and in reference to my wallet being limited.. of course.. i have a daughter in Philippines to care for... and dont know why but im even "paying" for a school... capitalism is just weird.... and of course i help out my 74 yr old mom.. her pension isnt enough for the rising costs of the Trudeau guy..... that leaves me with... roughly 2000$cad per month just for me...and im trying to get by on that little bit...
and not to mention that the Canadian dollar is dropping fast..
 
i actually find that using youtube to be difficult for information difficult as the majority comes from India/Bharat and i have my doubts that they are doing things correctly as their education isnt anytwhere near that of my frigid home... i use my little DC knowledge from tesla engineering class and my automobile mechanics school....

not sure how i got to this point but i have this feeling that if you pour anything into a battery .. like pitcher that it will stay and be stored... yes i google certain queeries but i almost never put it into practice unless i can confirm its effectiveness.. like the epsom salt thing and no i didnt try yet...however i did order a trickle charger.. just in case i ever need one.. yes im skeptical to series link batteries because im not familiar with anything more than the 12v common in most cars...
you should not order jack squat until you have taken the time to study and understand what you are playing with. not sure if this is a language issue or if you are a troll. take the time to study what others have offered up link wise and then come back. you do not even understand basic lead acid battery tech and you want to go out and buy LiFePo4 cells?

are you crazy? or just ........

I live close to the PI though not in it and I guarantee any thing that you are paying that little for will be hot garbage. shit that will start fires, have batteries exploding and you burning down the entire barrio.
 
you should not order jack squat until you have taken the time to study and understand what you are playing with. not sure if this is a language issue or if you are a troll. take the time to study what others have offered up link wise and then come back. you do not even understand basic lead acid battery tech and you want to go out and buy LiFePo4 cells?

are you crazy? or just ........

I live close to the PI though not in it and I guarantee any thing that you are paying that little for will be hot garbage. shit that will start fires, have batteries exploding and you burning down the entire barrio.
oh you know barrio ? because i used to live next to a brgy named barrio in abuyog...
as for my knowledge, i know just enough to link those 4 cells together to produce a 12volt battery, i can assure you, i am not trolling im just a dumb Quebecer... but if SLA battery is the way to go, ill just accept that i wasted money on a bms that i will never use and ill just drop 12,000 pesos on the SLA battery that was linked several pages ago, i just want to be sure that it wont evaporate all the battery acid like the one i have already has...replacing the battery acid isnt an issue... just that china is advertising "gel" instead of battery acid and that confuses me a whole lot.. can i refill each opening with battery acid or am i damaging the battery further ?

furthermore, i didnt MOVE to the philippines i was deployed here and didnt go back , i am unaware if you guys over yonder caught any news about the chinese attempted invasion in the Philippine sea last year...you can verify that my itsy bitsy country sent enough ships to engage the 50 hostile chinese navy by googling "canada navy in philippine sea" i think it was 55 ships on Canadas part.. 2 Australia, japan and France as well
i believe that is all i can share...
 
You have to connect the four cells in series to get 12V. For lithium including LiFePO4, you have to use a BMS to monitor individual cell voltages, rebalance them, disconnect charger and load to prevent any voltage from getting too high or low.

Lead-acid FLA you have to add water.
AGM or Gel, you can't, so make sure you never over-charge.

LiFePO4 may last 6000 cycles if you don't screw up, and end up costing $0.05/kWh
Lead-acid may last 200 to 700 cycles, and cost $0.50/kWh.

You can buy pre-assembled LiFePO4 batteries in 12V, 24V, or 48V, with BMS built in.
You can also build your own, but more chances to damage them; many stories on the forum.
 
You have to connect the four cells in series to get 12V. For lithium including LiFePO4, you have to use a BMS to monitor individual cell voltages, rebalance them, disconnect charger and load to prevent any voltage from getting too high or low.

Lead-acid FLA you have to add water.
AGM or Gel, you can't, so make sure you never over-charge.

LiFePO4 may last 6000 cycles if you don't screw up, and end up costing $0.05/kWh
Lead-acid may last 200 to 700 cycles, and cost $0.50/kWh.

You can buy pre-assembled LiFePO4 batteries in 12V, 24V, or 48V, with BMS built in.
You can also build your own, but more chances to damage them; many stories on the forum.
ive seen alot of lifepo4 batteries on sale on the platforms that ive listed some time ago, however they are just SLA batteries mislabled.. i dont see the problem with parallel linking 4x 3.2volt cells togetherand the BMS that i purchased only has 2 cables coming out of it.... im not certain exactly how i will link that to all 4 cells....
 
If you connect 4x 3.2V cells in "parallel", you will have a 3.2V battery with 4x the amp-hours.

Got a photo of that BMS?
4s BMS needs to have 5 sense leads and a pair of heavy current terminals to go through current sensor and disconnect FETs.

You can look through the forum to see the batteries people built and the BMS they used.
 
How much buffer do you need on a fixed array to extend the the peak solar hours? according to web resource, San Jose gets 5.3 hours of peak solar a day on average. I would assume that by increasing the wattage generated by the array above what you want, you can maintain your desire output (say 4Kw) for longer period of time. So a 6Kw array will give you more hours at 4Kw but how much more? I know it's a diminishing return so it's probably not worth it past a certain point. any advise?
 
Depends on your net metering plan, and usage.

If NEM 3.0 (what you'll have if you didn't reserve 2.0 earlier),
Do you have something like A/C that cycles on and off? Enough battery to store PV production while off, use to power it while on.
Plus, enough to store remaining power until after 6:00 PM, so you can backfeed grid during a couple hours of high credits.
(backfeed at other times only gets about wholesale credit.)

Roughly speaking, I think it would be enough battery to store whatever you don't use during 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.
 
Depends on your net metering plan, and usage.

If NEM 3.0 (what you'll have if you didn't reserve 2.0 earlier),
Do you have something like A/C that cycles on and off? Enough battery to store PV production while off, use to power it while on.
Plus, enough to store remaining power until after 6:00 PM, so you can backfeed grid during a couple hours of high credits.
(backfeed at other times only gets about wholesale credit.)

Roughly speaking, I think it would be enough battery to store whatever you don't use during 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.
Thanks. I'm looking at going totally off grid on sunny days so I need to generate enough power during the day to offset daytime use and recharge my batteries to full from the night before. So can a 6Kw array produce at least 4kw between 8;00 Am to 4:00PM
 
Depends on your net metering plan, and usage.

If NEM 3.0 (what you'll have if you didn't reserve 2.0 earlier),
Do you have something like A/C that cycles on and off? Enough battery to store PV production while off, use to power it while on.
Plus, enough to store remaining power until after 6:00 PM, so you can backfeed grid during a couple hours of high credits.
(backfeed at other times only gets about wholesale credit.)

Roughly speaking, I think it would be enough battery to store whatever you don't use during 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM.
perfect, that is all i need.. also i tested trhe watts needed for pc.. its between 100 and 120.. monitor is.. between 20 and 30
 
How much buffer do you need on a fixed array to extend the the peak solar hours? according to web resource, San Jose gets 5.3 hours of peak solar a day on average. I would assume that by increasing the wattage generated by the array above what you want, you can maintain your desire output (say 4Kw) for longer period of time. So a 6Kw array will give you more hours at 4Kw but how much more? I know it's a diminishing return so it's probably not worth it past a certain point. any advise?
i am 30 minutes walk from san jose.. i am in marasbaras
 
Thanks. I'm looking at going totally off grid on sunny days so I need to generate enough power during the day to offset daytime use and recharge my batteries to full from the night before. So can a 6Kw array produce at least 4kw between 8;00 Am to 4:00PM
PV solar power does not really work like that. The amount of power coming from the panels is constantly changing with the amount of sunlight that is hitting the active surface. Here is a plot from my Enphase system.

Enphase-03-08-24.JPG
The Enphase system only plots the total in every 15 minutes, so it looks pretty smooth. At sunrise, the power is very low, as the sun rises, it comes out of shadows and the angle of the light on the panels improves and the power output increases. Peak power in my case happens between noon and 1 pm. And the peak power is typically only 80% of the panel rating. This day hit about 3,600 watts from my 4,800 watts of panels, or only 75%. It does a bit battery closer to summer as the panel tilt becomes closer to the angle of the sun at noon. If there were no obstructions and a clear sky, the fall off would be a mirror to the ramp up, but you can see the dips around 2 pm and 4 pm. Those are due to shadows from trees as the sun is falling to the west.

Here is a different day shown from my Victron DC system.
IMG_4320.PNG
The morning ramp up is similar, but on this day, we had some clouds move in. The blue trace is the power from the panels and the orange trace is my battery bank voltage. The MPPT charge controller does it's best to keep pushing as much power as possible into the battery. My DC system has 2,000 watts of panels on it. That energy helps charge the battery on my hybrid backup inverter.

The inverter then pulls power from the battery as it needs it. The two rarely ever match up. This is why the battery is very important. Think of it as a big bucket. The solar panels throw water in as they can, and the inverter keep scooping it out as it needs it. If the battery (bucket) becomes full, the solar no longer has a place to fill and has to start just throwing away the energy (water). On the flip side, if the solar is not making enough, the bucket will run dry and the power has to shut off until it can fill up again.

A grid tied hybrid system has another option. If the battery becomes full, the extra power might be able to be exported to grid and you might be able to get some credit for it. And if the battery runs too low, you can then start taking power from the grid.

It's not so much about how much power the solar panels put out, it is how much total energy they can produce in the day. Can they make enough to keep up with your load demand on the inverter? We use the term "Sun Hours" to try and make it simpler, but it also causes some confusion. My Enphase trace above made 23.8 kilowatt hours from 4.8 KW of solar panels. That is 23.8 / 4.8 = 4.96 Sun Hours hitting the panels. But to do that, the system was making some power from 6:30 am to 5:30 pm, that's 11 hours.

So don't think so much about the power you need. That is important to figure out how big of an inverter you need, but the solar array size is more about the total energy needed over time. A small 100 watt load running for 24 hours is 2,400 watt hours. But a 1,200 watt microwave oven, running for 10 minutes is only 200 watt hours.

You should start out by doing an energy audit to figure out how much total energy you want from the solar panels. Will this be grid tied? Off Grid, or Hybrid? Grid tied is easy, but may not save you much money now. Grid tied just pushes energy into the grid. If you don't use it, it goes out to the grid and you might get some credit for it, if you use more than the panels are making, then you pay for the extra you need from the grid. Pull 3,000 watts while the solar panels are making 2,000 watts, then you are pulling 1,000 watts from the grid. Off Grid is tough as you need to over produce 95% of the time to cover those 5% of days when there is not enough sunlight. Hybrid is a good balance, if the gri is available. My system is now a hybrid. I have a otal of 6,800 watts of solar panels and 36 KWHs of battery. It covers all my electric energy needs for 90% of the days. I am using a little grid power now as we are into a second day of cloudy weather. My Enphase system only made 13 KWHs yesterday, only 2.7 sun hours. Wall down from the 26 KWHs (5.4 sun hours) it made 2 weeks ago.
 
It is possible to be "totally off grid", disconnected from it, perhaps with grid as generator to recharge when low. But that takes inverter sufficient for all loads that will run at once, plus motor starting loads (5x running wattage), and large battery.

More reasonable is to be grid connected. An inverter, maybe hybrid, to supply important backed up loads even during power failure. Current transformers at grid connection, so inverter can see import/export and seek to zero that by discharging/charging battery.

Unless you want to do it "just because", it is a math problem regarding costs. Start with your utility bills for the past year, consider dollars paid and power consumed each month, calculate per day. (what that won't tell you is peak wattage.)

My system has oversize PV with GT PV inverters, originally installed under NEM 1.0. It backfeeds during summer, and I use electric heat in winter. If power is out in the summer, battery is kept full and loads like A/C run off PV panels. Battery is undersize, barely lasts one night, and system is inadequate in winter (so use gas heat if grid is down.)
 
since everyone told me (not in so many words) that i am simply too dumb to use lfp batteries as a solar bank, i will stay with what i somewhat understand.. the 12,000 php battery that GXMNow linked a few pages back...but i still have 5-7 days before it arrives, is there anything else that i might need ? a different charge controller ? a seperate charge controller fo each solar panel because last time i just jammed all 3 into the same controller thinking that 30amps meant 1000 watts would be fed into the SLA battery... yes i have alot to learn and i assure you that i only use youtube to giggle at certain accents (like my own) not for educational purposes, however tiktok is still legal to use here, so thats always fun...

just because i was born in the most educated country on earth does not imply that it applies to me...Quebecers are an "odd" breed... but we get by..

i only have 2 college diplomas.. although, they are called CEGEP over there...college free, books however...yeah
 
Last edited:
Provide links to data sheet for battery, charge controller, panels.
And state how many of each you will have.

Will there be an inverter?
Low voltage disconnect setting (or small enough loads it never discharges deeply) will be key to battery life; deeper cycling wears lead-acid out sooner.
 
PV solar power does not really work like that. The amount of power coming from the panels is constantly changing with the amount of sunlight that is hitting the active surface. Here is a plot from my Enphase system.

View attachment 207251
The Enphase system only plots the total in every 15 minutes, so it looks pretty smooth. At sunrise, the power is very low, as the sun rises, it comes out of shadows and the angle of the light on the panels improves and the power output increases. Peak power in my case happens between noon and 1 pm. And the peak power is typically only 80% of the panel rating. This day hit about 3,600 watts from my 4,800 watts of panels, or only 75%. It does a bit battery closer to summer as the panel tilt becomes closer to the angle of the sun at noon. If there were no obstructions and a clear sky, the fall off would be a mirror to the ramp up, but you can see the dips around 2 pm and 4 pm. Those are due to shadows from trees as the sun is falling to the west.

Here is a different day shown from my Victron DC system.
View attachment 207253
The morning ramp up is similar, but on this day, we had some clouds move in. The blue trace is the power from the panels and the orange trace is my battery bank voltage. The MPPT charge controller does it's best to keep pushing as much power as possible into the battery. My DC system has 2,000 watts of panels on it. That energy helps charge the battery on my hybrid backup inverter.

The inverter then pulls power from the battery as it needs it. The two rarely ever match up. This is why the battery is very important. Think of it as a big bucket. The solar panels throw water in as they can, and the inverter keep scooping it out as it needs it. If the battery (bucket) becomes full, the solar no longer has a place to fill and has to start just throwing away the energy (water). On the flip side, if the solar is not making enough, the bucket will run dry and the power has to shut off until it can fill up again.

A grid tied hybrid system has another option. If the battery becomes full, the extra power might be able to be exported to grid and you might be able to get some credit for it. And if the battery runs too low, you can then start taking power from the grid.

It's not so much about how much power the solar panels put out, it is how much total energy they can produce in the day. Can they make enough to keep up with your load demand on the inverter? We use the term "Sun Hours" to try and make it simpler, but it also causes some confusion. My Enphase trace above made 23.8 kilowatt hours from 4.8 KW of solar panels. That is 23.8 / 4.8 = 4.96 Sun Hours hitting the panels. But to do that, the system was making some power from 6:30 am to 5:30 pm, that's 11 hours.

So don't think so much about the power you need. That is important to figure out how big of an inverter you need, but the solar array size is more about the total energy needed over time. A small 100 watt load running for 24 hours is 2,400 watt hours. But a 1,200 watt microwave oven, running for 10 minutes is only 200 watt hours.

You should start out by doing an energy audit to figure out how much total energy you want from the solar panels. Will this be grid tied? Off Grid, or Hybrid? Grid tied is easy, but may not save you much money now. Grid tied just pushes energy into the grid. If you don't use it, it goes out to the grid and you might get some credit for it, if you use more than the panels are making, then you pay for the extra you need from the grid. Pull 3,000 watts while the solar panels are making 2,000 watts, then you are pulling 1,000 watts from the grid. Off Grid is tough as you need to over produce 95% of the time to cover those 5% of days when there is not enough sunlight. Hybrid is a good balance, if the gri is available. My system is now a hybrid. I have a otal of 6,800 watts of solar panels and 36 KWHs of battery. It covers all my electric energy needs for 90% of the days. I am using a little grid power now as we are into a second day of cloudy weather. My Enphase system only made 13 KWHs yesterday, only 2.7 sun hours. Wall down from the 26 KWHs (5.4 sun hours) it made 2 weeks ago.


Thanks, I know there's a lot of variables but the curve helps. I went over spec as I want longer hours where I can generate 4Kw on an ideal day. overage is fine since the MPPT in the Ultra will limit the intake to 4Kw. I average 24Kw a day so I figure I need to generate at least that much most days to go off grid.
 
Back
Top