Seems MPP dropped a new inverter...a split phase 10KW

boondox said:

Having helped install two MPP off grid power systems, there is no way I would ever buy an MPP product. Both installs had multiple major issues. They are loud, run hot and love to forget settings. Even the up and down buttons don't work right on the menu. One system is still managing to run. It has issues and won't charge from the genny but is still working.

The other the MPP's were dumped and new inverters purchased and installed. Maybe if it was a single inverter running non critical loads and somebody gave it to me I might use it. On second thought, not even then.

In one case, the inverters were SWITCHING TO 50hZ ON THEIR OWN!! The third time they did that was the deal breaker. Ripped them off the wall. MPP is not ready for prime time. Not only all of the above but they are cramped and a PITA to wire up.

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Thanks for your input. After thinking about it and some of the responses ..It's a foolish decision to use a cheap solution to power food refrigeration.

realpinochet said:

Thanks for your input. After thinking about it and some of the responses ..It's a foolish decision to use a cheap solution to power food refrigeration.

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How big are the freezers? I can easily run a chest freezer and full size french door fridge off a Victron Phoenix 12/1200va. Still have to have a way of charging the batteries, but it's a mighty nice inverter. If you had a dedicated circuit for all your fridges/freezers.. it might be able to handle it.

solar8484 said:

Sure, that one model is decent but, as others have pointed out, recent new product trend is worse. As a brand overall, MPP is not getting better.

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I have three MPP LV 6048 - first one is two years old. They work perfectly, not issues - I push them hard.
I also have MPP 2724 for a mobile set up - gets a lot of use, also runs perfectly.
I have seen Lithium Solar's video on the higher voltage PV 6548 - too bad about the Idle current on those.
I wonder what the Idle current will be on this new 10kW unit. Anyone know?

Being as it's stackable, has "zero export" capabilities and might be cheap.. it could be very popular. I imagine it will have "industry average" idle current for it's cost range. You want low idle, you get to pay for low idle.

cs1234 said:

How big are the freezers? I can easily run a chest freezer and full size french door fridge off a Victron Phoenix 12/1200va. Still have to have a way of charging the batteries, but it's a mighty nice inverter. If you had a dedicated circuit for all your fridges/freezers.. it might be able to handle it.

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The are 24.0 cubic feet..bought them a few years ago so they are energy star models and use about 100W running, reported by another user, not sure about startup surge. I plan on having three deep freezers and the fridge in the house. The house fridge is old but says it uses 200W. But, I'd like to have enough head room for adding another fridge or two latter. I was originally thinking of a victron or small 3KW schneider. To be clear it's for backup with the grid power goes down. And, yes I'd have a few panels to charge during extended outage.

Similar to this.

realpinochet said:

The are 24.0 cubic feet..bought them a few years ago so they are energy star models and use about 100W running, reported by another user, not sure about startup surge. I plan on having three deep freezers and the fridge in the house. The house fridge is old but says it uses 200W. But, I'd like to have enough head room for adding another fridge or two latter. I was originally thinking of a victron or small 3KW schneider. To be clear it's for backup with the grid power goes down. And, yes I'd have a few panels to charge during extended outage.

Similar to this.

Frigidaire 24.8 cu. ft. Manual Defrost Chest Freezer, Adjustable Temperature Control FFCL2542AW - The Home Depot

The Frigidaire 24.8 cu. ft. Chest Freezer offers more storage so you can stock up on frozen foods. Take organization to the next level with our heavy-duty sliding plastic basket with color-coordinated

www.homedepot.com

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I'm running the one of those plus two side by sides off my tp6048 just fine. They don't pull that much unless in defrost mode. I don't have a washing machine on mine though like @42OhmsPA is running.

Crowz said:

I'm running the one of those plus two side by sides off my tp6048 just fine. They don't pull that much unless in defrost mode. I don't have a washing machine on mine though like @42OhmsPA is running.

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Thanks bro for the input...much appreciated.

Crowz said:

I'm running the one of those plus two side by sides off my tp6048 just fine. They don't pull that much unless in defrost mode. I don't have a washing machine on mine though like @42OhmsPA is running.

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I run three freezers, two fridges plus a small garage fridge,
The main side by side fridge has the highest start up and daily watts (about 1.6kWh per day). I can't recall the start up surge but I can measure it tomorrow if you want to know the in-rush on it.
The freezers are all about the same at just below a kwh per 24-hour day. I can say the bigger freezers don't seem to use more energy than the smaller one, they are all about the same.
The washing machine doesn't use a lot of energy on it's own.

OffGridForGood said:

I run three freezers, two fridges plus a small garage fridge,
The main side by side fridge has the highest start up and daily watts (about 1.6kWh per day). I can't recall the start up surge but I can measure it tomorrow if you want to know the in-rush on it.
The freezers are all about the same at just below a kwh per 24-hour day. I can say the bigger freezers don't seem to use more energy than the smaller one, they are all about the same.
The washing machine doesn't use a lot of energy on it's own.

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Thanks for your input..this is all off of your LV 6048?

Crowz said:

I'm running the one of those plus two side by sides off my tp6048 just fine. They don't pull that much unless in defrost mode. I don't have a washing machine on mine though like @42OhmsPA is running.

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I never had an issue with the chest freezer or fridge on the TP6048 but realized there was a slight light flicker when the compressors kicked in, nothing compared to the washer agitating. The light flicker is gone with the SRNE, doing laundry is fun again; especially since the SRNE handles the dryer. The 6048 is hanging on the wall sad and powered down waiting for it's next adventure.

realpinochet said:

Thanks for your input..this is all off of your LV 6048?

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I now have three MPP 6048's in parallel (19kW max output)
The fridges and freezers were part of the initial set up back in 2021 thou, when I had just one MPP 6048, along with furnace fan, & well pump. The main thing is to keep the loads balanced as best you can with the 6048. For me this meant putting the well (120v) well pump on L2 the furnace fan on L1, the fridges and freezers are split evenly between L1 and L2 ( low chance they come on exactly together anyway), our furance fan runs 24/7 on low speed, so it doesn't impart a big in-rush (starting current) it just runs at a steady amperage of about 4amps (120v).

42OhmsPA said:

I never had an issue with the chest freezer or fridge on the TP6048 but realized there was a slight light flicker when the compressors kicked in, nothing compared to the washer agitating. The light flicker is gone with the SRNE, doing laundry is fun again; especially since the SRNE handles the dryer. The 6048 is hanging on the wall sad and powered down waiting for it's next adventure.

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Which SRNE are you using? I've seen you mention it a few times but missed some of the posts here while I was on vacation.

I was looking at the Schneider one below and it's Victron counterpart.




They have a AIO version but I'm debating just getting a CC and adding to the ones above to keep them modular.

cs1234 said:

Being as it's stackable, has "zero export" capabilities and might be cheap.. it could be very popular. I imagine it will have "industry average" idle current for it's cost range. You want low idle, you get to pay for low idle.

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I wanted to know what the idle consumption is. As Lithium Solar pointed out, some very similar models of the 6548's have considerable differences in Idle consumption, it seemed the units with higher DC PV input voltage capacity were much higher in Idle current. This new 10kW unit appears to also have high DC PV input voltage capacity - thought I would ask if anyone knows the idle consumption.
Don't see it in the spec sheet, unless I am missing it somewhere.

OffGridForGood said:

I now have three MPP 6048's in parallel (19kW max output)
The fridges and freezers were part of the initial set up back in 2021 thou, when I had just one MPP 6048, along with furnace fan, & well pump. The main thing is to keep the loads balanced as best you can with the 6048. For me this meant putting the well (120v) well pump on L2 the furnace fan on L1, the fridges and freezers are split evenly between L1 and L2 ( low chance they come on exactly together anyway), our furance fan runs 24/7 on low speed, so it doesn't impart a big in-rush (starting current) it just runs at a steady amperage of about 4amps (120v).

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Dam, it starts your well pump? I like the idea of one of these for their price point. You've seem to have had good luck with them. But from what I've read today and a little web surfing it seems like only some people get as lucky as you with long term durability. Maybe it just their newer stuff that suck. I know Will like these as he's mentioned a few times he knows people that have used them to build power walls. I'm leaning towards needing durability because if the unit goes out I'm loosing thousands and thousands of dollars in meat and produce.

OffGridForGood said:

I wanted to know what the idle consumption is. As Lithium Solar pointed out, some very similar models of the 6548's have considerable differences in Idle consumption, it seemed the units with higher DC PV input voltage capacity were much higher in Idle current. This new 10kW unit appears to also have high DC PV input voltage capacity - thought I would ask if anyone knows the idle consumption.
Don't see it in the spec sheet, unless I am missing it somewhere.

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It's not listed..I didn't see it either.

solar8484 said:

Sure, that one model is decent but, as others have pointed out, recent new product trend is worse. As a brand overall, MPP is not getting better.

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I've seen threads where an inverter (doesn't matter the brand) really isn't big enough for the loads. I've seen threads where there wasn't enough battery. I've seen threads where the cable size used leads to large voltage drops.

The point is not every installation is a "winner". Some are marginal and this leads to problems.

I can say that the LV6548's have done everything I expected them to and the Growatt 3000LVM in my truck camper has done everything I needed and expected. These were all models purchased before covid and supply chain constraints.

Whether components have changed or not, I can't say at this time. I doubt you have any proof this has occurred either. I did see a video about the EG4 6500EX and the eeprom issue. Whether that applies to MPP or Growatt for those manufacture dates remains to be seen.

realpinochet said:

Dam, it starts your well pump? I like the idea of one of these for their price point. You've seem to have had good luck with them. But from what I've read today and a little web surfing it seems like only some people get as lucky as you with long term durability. Maybe it just their newer stuff that suck. I know Will like these as he's mentioned a few times he knows people that have used them to build power walls. I'm leaning towards needing durability because if the unit goes out I'm loosing thousands and thousands of dollars in meat and produce.

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I run my 3/4 hp well pump off the LV6548's no problem. Pump is about 100 feet down a 240 foot well. You need to check the load of the well pump at startup and also the startup of your freezers and fridge. Add that all together and then you can determine how large your inverter needs to be.

realpinochet said:

Dam, it starts your well pump? I like the idea of one of these for their price point. You've seem to have had good luck with them. But from what I've read today and a little web surfing it seems like only some people get as lucky as you with long term durability. Maybe it just their newer stuff that suck. I know Will like these as he's mentioned a few times he knows people that have used them to build power walls. I'm leaning towards needing durability because if the unit goes out I'm loosing thousands and thousands of dollars in meat and produce.

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I can't say if the older or newer ones are really any different, I bought first one Feb 2021, the second Mar 2022, and the third one in July this year, 2023.
They are all interconnected and work perfectly together. I have a tendancy to push equipment hard (I expect stuff to work) so if these were fraile crap I think it would have shown by now!
I have run welding equipment, 6Hp upright air compressor, 3Hp TS, 2Hp dust collection - I have a few pieces of equipment with 3-5Hp 3-phase motors but these are on VFD's (always were, since the utility didn't have 3-phase in my rural area). I don't know if I am just lucky or if the 6048's are built like tanks (compared to other MPP inverters) but I can say these work, and they have never given me reason to say anything but "I like them".

I found two tools very handy when trying to set up to run on solar:
First piece- P3 Kil-O-Watt , plug this into the wall outlet, then plug in the fridge or a freezer or any cycling 120v load and let it run a day or a few. Then read the exact kWh the appliance has consumed, and read the exact # of hours it was recording. You now know exactly what that cycling load uses per 24hours. BUT - you don't know the in-rush current.
Second piece - Klein CL 900 clamp meter with Max min/in-rush capture. Unplug the fridge/freezer or appliance you want to check, put the meter around the hot wire (easiest to do at the panel I find) then plug in the appliance so it does a start up - the meter will record the max current for you and hold that value so you can read it. You now know the exact peak current to start that appliance.

Get these values for all your appliances, and list them out, you can now add up the max load and daily consumption you are likely to use.

Zwy said:

Which SRNE are you using? I've seen you mention it a few times but missed some of the posts here while I was on vacation.

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ASF 10kw. I have a link in my info. My only complaint is it's not able to be paralleled but I could easily split my load panels if/when I decide to go that route. I'll see what this winter brings...

realpinochet said:

I'm leaning towards needing durability because if the unit goes out I'm loosing thousands and thousands of dollars in meat and produce.

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nothing wrong with going tier-one! it does cost more, but only once.
I bought the first 6048 as a bit of an experiment, and to be honest, the original motivation was to run 'a really big emergency lighting system' ie all my shop lights, since (frequent) power outages are no fun standing in the dark and pulling out the Honda... so I didn't start out with big loads in mind, or a long term Solar Power Plant.
But once I had the first 6048 and it just worked and we had a winter storm but the shop system kept the house running, yeah green light to expand - it seemed just too easy to pair another one to it, to increase capacity. Well if you can get more capacity with two, why not three? - I just stuck with the same make and model so they could all be inter-connected and work together for the big motor loads. It just all worked and I didn't see any benefit to changing. But now I am at max for this model - three is it.
To go to 24kW output, I would need two 12kW stackable inverters...yeah I am keeping an eye out on what new equipment is released over the next while, I would like to see a pair of 12-14kW inverters with lower idle than my MPP's but I am good for now and not in a hurry. I will add PV and battery for now.
Thousands of $$ of stuff in a freezer seems like a lot of risk, but frozen stuff doesn't thaw very fast, you can monitor the system and know if it fails. If you are 100% off grid, then the risks are far higher, if grid is available - you can set up an ATS and not need to worry about it. My fridges and freezers are all on a Reliance CLP and can be switched back (manually) to the grid if we ever need to.
If the budget is there, tier-one stuff all looks nice, and from what everyone says, just works.

realpinochet said:

I was looking at the Schneider one below and it's Victron counterpart.

Schneider Electric Conext SW 4048 3,800 Watts, 48VDC Inverter/Charger for Split-phase 120/240 VAC

The Schneider Electric SW model inverters do NOT support stacking. These inverters are only designed to operate independently. If you need stacking ability, take a look at the XW line of inverters. Please email us or give us a call if you have any questions.

www.solar-electric.com

Victron MultiPlus-II inverter & charger 3000 Watts, 48 Volts DC, 120 Volts AC, 35 Amp Charger

Part Number: PMP482305100 Note: To do advanced Inverter configuration and setup you must have a VE.Bus To USB MK3-USB Interface.

www.solar-electric.com

They have a AIO version but I'm debating just getting a CC and adding to the ones above to keep them modular.

Victron Energy PMP482307010 - Inverter Supply

Shop for Victron Energy PMP482307010 at Inverter Supply for best prices online. Victron Energy PMP482307010, Victron Energy, PMP482307010, EasySolar-II 48/3000/35-32 MPPT 250/70 GX, Victron Inverter Chargers

www.invertersupply.com

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Just be aware the easy solar is 230/240V only.

42OhmsPA said:

Mehh. Looks like the Lux 12k, SRNE 10k and Megarevo 8K got together and had a red headed step child.
Price will be a big factor with this one I think.
12kpv / 2 mppts / 600v = 10a per mppt? Mehh...
The new app could be interesting for those that want to miss out on solar assistant.
I hope the quality is improved over other versions and the fans aren't the same screamers.

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18A max per input

Unfortunately it looks like it has the same abysmal surge ability as the 6kW WP.

Brucey said:

Just be aware the easy solar is 230/240V only.

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Thanks Bruce...I didn't see that.