Solar has been hijacked/co opted. A wakeup?

robstrom · Dec 8, 2023

From my reading, the early days of solar were adventurous 'stick it to the man' types.
Offgrid/ back to the land...
Now, it's more of "I can save $ .01 by tieing into grid, get some subsidies/grants from government.
Meaning, someone else's money. Is this pretty much in line with all the anti establishment Woodstockers getting to power, and becoming the establishment?
I'm almost 60, and new (5 years) to solar.
I'm pretty much anti everything government (cuz I read history), going for some level of disconnect/self sufficiency.
Isn't that the point of solar??
Save a penny, to commit to the government teat seems ingenious to the founders of 'the cause.'

Q-Dog · Dec 8, 2023

The point of my solar is to have power when the grid fails. It's a bonus if I become less dependent on the man along the way.

One of my neighbors asked about my solar panels, and when I explained it was mostly for a backup he asked, "how long for that to pay for itself?" And I asked how long before his gas generator would pay for itself.

Danke · Dec 8, 2023

Granted, most utilities are highly regulated/controlled. But you are just selling something, in this case, your excess electricity that you generate. What’s wrong with that?

Kenny_ · Dec 8, 2023

My point is to reduce my Xcel bill as much as possible...and power during outages is a bonus but that doesn't happen that often here.

robstrom · Dec 8, 2023

Nothing.
I wasn't indicting anyone, just asking how it got from there to here

dougbert · Dec 8, 2023

robstrom said:
Nothing.
I wasn't indicting anyone, just asking how it got from there to here

I don't know

I started my solar journey in 1992 when I found a copy of HomePower magazine and "ate it up" and eventually got all 183 issues
Installed my first house system in 2000. you can read about it via the link in my signature MY BUILD

I still refuse to do NetMetering. I want power when the grid fails. THAT is my objective and besides, this solar TECH is really cool and getting more so

johnnysolar · Dec 8, 2023

"the government" is not a single entity so thinking of it that way *may* get your brain into an infinite loop that can spiral toward insanity. We the people are a massive part of the government. The we the people/government from 1945 kept freedom alive while later in the late sixties it went another way. History is not binary. I have been driving electric cars since 2016 December and the electricity price has not moved once since then, from my utility. Meanwhile at the non-governmentally owned gas station.... So pick your poison, I suppose. the reason I'm setting up solar is for independence, land be damned.

JoeHam · Dec 8, 2023

robstrom said:
From my reading, the early days of solar were adventurous 'stick it to the man' types.
Offgrid/ back to the land...
Now, it's more of "I can save $ .01 by tieing into grid, get some subsidies/grants from government.
Meaning, someone else's money. Is this pretty much in line with all the anti establishment Woodstockers getting to power, and becoming the establishment?
I'm almost 60, and new (5 years) to solar.
I'm pretty much anti everything government (cuz I read history), going for some level of disconnect/self sufficiency.
Isn't that the point of solar??
Save a penny, to commit to the government teat seems ingenious to the founders of 'the cause.'

I don’t think you’ve made an accurate assessment of the situation at all.

I’m a bit older than you, been involved for more than a decade, and think people are motivated by both sides of the argument. I don’t see any point in trying to split the motivation and quantify it.

No need to judge, it’s a free country right ? And, this is a global community on the forum so any generalizations are bound to be way off.

Take a deep breath and let everybody do their thing.

timselectric · Dec 8, 2023

My motivation is simple.
Money

SunDave · Dec 8, 2023

The days of government being by the people and for the people have passed I'm afraid. Rome 2.0 baby! Prepare accordingly.

I think solar can help.

G00SE · Dec 8, 2023

There are many groups/types of people on this forum. Many reasons and ways to utilize solar
I’ve also been able to pick up on quite a bit from entertaining the insights of people on here with seemingly different mindsets.
There’s opportunity in any environment

Nobodybusiness · Dec 8, 2023

robstrom said:
From my reading, the early days of solar were adventurous 'stick it to the man' types.
Offgrid/ back to the land...
Now, it's more of "I can save $ .01 by tieing into grid, get some subsidies/grants from government.
Meaning, someone else's money. Is this pretty much in line with all the anti establishment Woodstockers getting to power, and becoming the establishment?
I'm almost 60, and new (5 years) to solar.
I'm pretty much anti everything government (cuz I read history), going for some level of disconnect/self sufficiency.
Isn't that the point of solar??
Save a penny, to commit to the government teat seems ingenious to the founders of 'the cause.'

Price and availability.

If solar still cost what it did in 1992 this forum probably wouldn’t exist.

Not everyone here is net metering either.

Being grid tied is just more practical that having to buy all the equipment at once to run an all electric home.

I still think most of us are independent types.
I do keep track of my ROI but it’s not the sole reason for doing this.

Most of us see the writing on the wall and are trying to prepare as best we can..

dougbert · Dec 8, 2023

timselectric said:
My motivation is simple.
Money

to make or to save, OR both?

dougbert · Dec 8, 2023

Nobodybusiness said:
Price and availability.

If solar still cost what it did in 1992 this forum probably wouldn’t exist.

Not everyone here is net metering either.

Being grid tied is just more practical that having to buy all the equipment at once to run an all electric home.

I still think most of us are independent types.
I do keep track of my ROI but it’s not the sole reason for doing this.

Most of us see the writing on the wall and are trying to prepare as best we can..

my first house assist install had 12 100 watt panels. Cost was $4-$5 PER watt, year 2000
recently sold them for $15 a panel, producing 50-60 watts, 23 years old

Nobodybusiness · Dec 8, 2023

dougbert said:
I don't know

I started my solar journey in 1992 when I found a copy of HomePower magazine and "ate it up" and eventually got all 183 issues
Installed my first house system in 2000. you can read about it via the link my signature MY BUILD

I still refuse to do NetMetering. I want power when the grid fail. THAT is my objective and besides, the TECH is really cool

Looks like we had a similar introduction to solar.

Loved Reading Richard Perez Stuff.

Not even sure now where I found Homepower.

I had a subscription until Richard passed.

Great introduction to solar and the lifestyle.
So much has changed since then.

Nobodybusiness · Dec 8, 2023

dougbert said:
my first house assist install had 12 100 watt panels. Cost was $4-$5 PER watt, year 2000
recently sold them for $15 a panel, producing 50-60 watts, 23 years old

Yup Richard always called it Guerrilla Solar.

dougbert · Dec 8, 2023

Nobodybusiness said:
Looks like we had a similar introduction to solar.

Loved Reading Richard Perez Stuff.

Not even sure now where I found Homepower.

I had a subscription until Richard passed.

Great introduction to solar and the lifestyle.
So much has changed since then.

YES - so true. found a copy in local library. Remember Gorilla Solar section?

hippees in 1970 turned solar gurus

Nobodybusiness · Dec 8, 2023

dougbert said:
YES - so true. found a copy in local library. Remember Gorilla Solar section?

hippees in 1970 turned solar gurus

Yup. That’s what it was. Hippies who went solar.

I can’t remember where I saw my first issue.
Probably an ad in Mother Earth news or something.

I still have all my old magazines in a crate somewhere.

Pinto Yates · Dec 8, 2023

I don’t think it’s been hijacked, it has evolved. I think we’ve reached the point where the tech is super efficient at the same time the costs have declined greatly and education to learn DIY is free online. So now more folks than ever before can build their own personal power plant that’ll run on free sunlight. Many reasons why this makes sense and I’m good with any reason that makes sense for you.

Until they figure out how to tax sunshine (and you know they’re trying), I believe we’re living in the golden age of personal solar power right now.

timselectric · Dec 8, 2023

dougbert said:
to make or to save, OR both?

Saving what I make.
I'm prepaying for all of my future electricity. At a huge discount.

Pierre · Dec 8, 2023

My installation is more for the convenience of having power during grid outages ( up to three times a day for 2 hours each ). Going from one of the best run national power utilities in the world in the 90’s ( generating more than 60% of all the electricity on the African continent ) to one of the worst , thanks to our wonderful government. Here in sunny South Africa you are required to install a bi-directional power meter at your cost ( about $US 600 ) and you are not allowed to export more than your average yearly usage / year. So what is the point in exporting to the grid ?

gotbeans · Dec 8, 2023

robstrom said:
From my reading, the early days of solar were adventurous 'stick it to the man' types.
Offgrid/ back to the land...
Now, it's more of "I can save $ .01 by tieing into grid, get some subsidies/grants from government.
Meaning, someone else's money. Is this pretty much in line with all the anti establishment Woodstockers getting to power, and becoming the establishment?
I'm almost 60, and new (5 years) to solar.
I'm pretty much anti everything government (cuz I read history), going for some level of disconnect/self sufficiency.
Isn't that the point of solar??
Save a penny, to commit to the government teat seems ingenious to the founders of 'the cause.'

The way I see it is, nobody gonna make their money back tying to grid if they're in north america, power is too cheap
insurance now charging money to have panels on roof
grid tie is several thousand more.. you get like 3 cents per kwh probably at most
you need an array the size of peoples neighborhood to get some money just to pay that insurance extra
and then to pay off extra tie cost takes a million years by itself
I just hook it up either entirely off grid or with grid as backup

The history is interesting too. How much the oil industry put in it for "good guy points" because they thought it'd never go anywhere lol

Crowz · Dec 9, 2023

dougbert said:
YES - so true. found a copy in local library. Remember Gorilla Solar section?

hippees in 1970 turned solar gurus

I just downloaded 188 issues of home power off their site. So if anyone wants to read it they have them all there to download as pdf files.

Home Power Magazine | Downloadable Archive | Home

An archive of the complete 31-year history of Home Power magazine. 188 digital back issues capture a three decade history of the renewable energy movement in the U.S. and beyond. Each issue is available for non-commercial use at no cost to registered members of this site.

www.homepower.com

Danke · Dec 9, 2023

gotbeans said:
The way I see it is, nobody gonna make their money back tying to grid if they're in north america, power is too cheap
insurance now charging money to have panels on roof
grid tie is several thousand more.. you get like 3 cents per kwh probably at most
you need an array the size of peoples neighborhood to get some money just to pay that insurance extra
and then to pay off extra tie cost takes a million years by itself
I just hook it up either entirely off grid or with grid as backup

Depends on the state. In MN, people I know are actually making money selling back. You can install up to 40kW AC system (more than 40kW of panels) for residential and get retail rate payback. Undersize your micros to max out to 40kW, they only clip a few days of the month on average. You can have two meters as long as there is a house on the property. So one solar system for own consumption (or just use grid) and another solar system just for selling back.

I didn’t ask for specific amounts, but it is hundreds of dollars a week in profit.

gotbeans · Dec 9, 2023

Danke said:
Depends on the state. In MN, people I know are actually making money selling back. You can install up to 40kW AC system (more than 40kW of panels) for residential and get retail rate payback. Undersize your micros to max out to 40kW, they only clip a few days of the month on average.

I didn’t ask for specific amounts, but it is hundreds of dollars a week in profit.

Yea at that massive size it makes sense. I see tons of homes with 5-10 panels. Probably a majority of homes I see have that many. No way they're making anything back this decade or next lol. Places that are starting to up the insurance rates are just stealing money and they know it

Solar has been hijacked/co opted. A wakeup?

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