Beginning installation of Schneider XW Pro/EG4ll batteries V1/MPPT 100A 600V OFF-GRID only questions

[BentleyJ]

Schneider XW Pro commission

I need help. I have installed a 14.4kw solar system designed by Alt E and I am ready to commission but for a few problems. I have 2 XWPro Inverters, PDP, 3 Conext MPPT 100 600 charge controllers, 2 MPPT disconnect RS switches, Conext battery monitor, Conext AGS, InsightHome and 6 Pytes Ebox...

diysolarforum.com

 

[SniperX]

1) The inverter will work just fine with batteries only. The generator doesn't have to be connected to the inverter BUT then you loose the utility of the built in charger.
2) I would go with a 250A fuse.
3) Never mind, don't mean to confuse the issue. I'm actually backing up my whole house, 100A main panel via a 60A double pole breaker that feeds into the XW+ and then into the main panel. I was simply saying that #4 wire is plenty large for your application and even the smaller #6 would still be OK.

I have both sizes in the wire. I know from watching Will that he was saying #4 would be better if you can get it to work. When we get this all settled, I need to buy you a beer!

 

[SniperX]

In the generator connection method I suggested there would be an interlock mechanism on the 150A main panel so the Main breaker and the Generator feed-in breaker could not be on at the same time.

Can you retro fit an interlock on a panel that currently does not have one?

 

[SniperX]

The XW has generator support features that will monitor the generator output and adjust the charge current based on your AC loads to avoid overloading the generator if someone kicks on another AC load.

I did not think of that. That would definitely be better than tripping it if I am charging and running the well pump or something like that with a larger load. The chargeverter does not do that.

 

[SniperX]

If you already have the manual transfer switch, I'd probably install it, but the XW includes an automatic transfer switch and the PDP includes breakers (with lockouts) that function as a manual transfer switch.

I have the transfer switch installed, so can these both work together or will it have to be one or the other?

 

[BentleyJ]

Can you retro fit an interlock on a panel that currently does not have one?

Most breaker panel manufacturers make optional interlock kits that can be purchased. Note there is a specific location(s) on the bus bar in relation to the main breaker where the second breaker has to be located.

 

[SniperX]

Schneider XW Pro commission

I need help. I have installed a 14.4kw solar system designed by Alt E and I am ready to commission but for a few problems. I have 2 XWPro Inverters, PDP, 3 Conext MPPT 100 600 charge controllers, 2 MPPT disconnect RS switches, Conext battery monitor, Conext AGS, InsightHome and 6 Pytes Ebox...

diysolarforum.com

I have been trying to follow that thread but my eyes rolled to the back of my head to disassociate as soon as I saw that huge wiring diagram. lol. I read a lot just hoping one day, it will make sense but that is slow going. I would hire an electrician if I could find one that understands solar/dc but I am in the sticks and I would worry they would have no idea what they are doing. This way, I learn, but pictures are how my brain works. I get all nervous when I see wiring diagrams for some reason.

 

[BentleyJ]

I have the transfer switch installed, so can these both work together or will it have to be one or the other?

2 separate things. Take a look at the mini PDP manual. Pg. 1 & 4?? shows the 3 breaker bypass arrangement and the lockout lever. Note: the bypass is typically used for the Grid AC1 input but could just as easily be used for Gen AC2, or not.

 

[BentleyJ]

I have been trying to follow that thread but my eyes rolled to the back of my head to disassociate as soon as I saw that huge wiring diagram. lol. I read a lot just hoping one day, it will make sense but that is slow going. I would hire an electrician if I could find one that understands solar/dc but I am in the sticks and I would worry they would have no idea what they are doing. This way, I learn, but pictures are how my brain works. I get all nervous when I see wiring diagrams for some reason.

Ignore the original wiring diagram it has a BIG mistake

 

[SniperX]

Then to a DC PV disconnect. I used Square D. Then to the Schneider gear.

I have a midnight solar disconnect that I purchased when I bought the Schneider. I have the combiner box(es) that I got from Ian. I have 2 8to2 (did not know what I was doing back then and thought bigger was better lol) I am trying to be a bit more UL compliant although I don't need to since I am off-grid with ground mount. I just don't want melting fuses and breakers these days. I did the math, and those are 15A fuses on the combiner box from Ian and with my old string config of 4S2P, it was going to end up being over 15A, but everyone said it would be ok. Not sure if they can handle the newer voltages, so I went with Midnite Solar just to be safe. I figured this would go out at the array and those AIMS cut-off for PV would be mounted inside before the PV wire went into the charge controller.

 

[SniperX]

Dave’s advice always starts with: “Read and study the documentation. Read and study the wiring diagram. Did you tighten everything to spec using a torque device?” Then he asks that you present YOUR solution to him for critique. If you are a willing and handy DIYer you’ll work well with him.

I am all about torque! lol Took me a month to find my torque wrench. I am totally off-grid with all we own in 3 40' containers and trying to get this up and going. Just finding the items I purchased for this was difficult since they were the last things packed in the move. We had to shove a lot of stuff in the last container to get it off the trailer before the rain started and nothing was organized.
I did watch some videos from NAZ, and even some AltE, but this forum has been a tremendous resource. You all are a patient lot!

 

[SniperX]

Understand and implement sufficient grounding. Same with voltage drop and wire size. Use high quality SPD’s at the array(s), SPD at the solar gear as well as at your AC panel(s). I use Midnite SPD’s. Torque everything using reliable torque equipment.

I have two of their arrestors (midnite solar) which will go out at the array AND I bought EMP shields for everything. I see a few photos of the EMP shields installed in places on people's builds, but honestly, after someone mentioned on another thread that you can't put two ferrules in one connection, I started to feel defeated until I found out about double ferrules (might be giving it a wrong name) and then I saw in a video where a person was using one but did not say that was what it was. I have a double EMP shield for the PV (supposed to go on the pv wire connection at the charger) one for the batteries and one currently on my main panel. We live in FL, so lightning everywhere. I also have one that goes between the inverter and the transfer switch, but I have to do one thing at a time or I get things mixed up. I wish I had a brain like you all. lol

 

[SniperX]

The consultants advice on AGS is to not use it. Dave gets called in as expert witness by insurance companies on house fires where solar is used. He says that unattended generators are often the culprit, along with loose connections, and faulty wiring practices.

I came into some equipment on a marketplace buy and there was a generac thing in the box. I have not looked into it. I have a Kubota diesel generator (I believe it is 10kw or 13kw) and then this Honda EU7000is. I don't want to have to leave it outside all the time which is why I went to manual switching. If I leave, I would switch everything off and power down for safety reasons but I am more of "a simple, less complications means less problems" sort of person...

 

[SniperX]

Most breaker panel manufacturers make optional interlock kits that can be purchased. Note there is a specific location(s) on the bus bar in relation to the main breaker where the second breaker has to be located.

That makes sense about the location. It would need to be close to the main breaker I would think. NOT a small detail to overlook, so thank you.

 

[SniperX]

Ignore the original wiring diagram it has a BIG mistake

Yes, I was following and everyone was questioning it. I bookmarked it to come back to when I get to installing more than one Scheider with the bigger PDP. Is it true when others were saying two XW pros cause issue in parallel or have they worked that out with better software by now?

 

[BentleyJ]

You've got some nice generators, I'm jealous, really want a Kubota GL-7000 but our power doesn't go out often enough to justify the cost. Also, at 500 pounds, is not exactly portable.

The most discussed issue with the XW Pro lately on the forum has been the Enhanced Grid Support feature with regard to Grid Sell. Being off-grid this is not relevant to your use case. To put your mind at ease should you wish to use your larger system in a grid-tied manner, there is a solution. Lets save that for later, sounds like you have enough to do now.

As far as I know the issues with parallel configurations is limited to the Smaller SW series of inverters. The XW Pro should be OK as long one unit is set to Primary and the others are set to Secondary and each one has a unique unit ID number.

EDIT: Multi-unit configurations require AC sync communication cables. See Multi unit design guide 990-91373C.

 

[SniperX]

2 separate things. Take a look at the mini PDP manual. Pg. 1 & 4?? shows the 3 breaker bypass arrangement and the lockout lever. Note: the bypass is typically used for the Grid AC1 input but could just as easily be used for Gen AC2, or not.

I drew a diagram (sorry not to scale) and have considered the generator idea you have been pitching. I think it will work this way with what I am proposing.

So, keep the transfer switch. One end wired directly to generator. The other end directly to AC out on the XW Pro. Middle area of safety switch to the load panel.

ADD a separate RV plug from the outside but hardwire to GEN in on the Schneider. This plug will only go to the Schneider, so entirely separate from the plug going to the transfer switch.

My main reason is we are in Florida, and during really bad storms (hurricanes, etc.) I want to be only on the generator. The SPD's are only good for one strike. I have had 2 nearby strikes (neighbor's tree but our system was not set up yet, and one that came down the data line of the internet) So, if not running, the system should be ok. If on the generator during the storm, I have an emp shield hooked to the generator and to the load center.

So, I am either all generator (no inverter) or all inverter (solar/batteries) AND IF the generator is hooked to the separate RV plug and the XW Pro, I can charge batteries when I need to and still provide for the loads.

The large manual transfer switch between the panel and Schneider will take care of operator error if someone tries to hook the RV cord in the wrong RV plug.

Does this sound like a good plan? I am sorry diagram is hard to follow. I tried my best.

 

[BentleyJ]

Yes, that should work.

 

[SniperX]

Yes, that should work.

AWESOME. It took me a while to figure out what you were trying to explain.
I have one question:
Does the generator HAVE to be connected to the new RV plug constantly? I know if I want the inverter to monitor everything, but if I am here and watching it myself, can I leave it disconnected and connect if I need to? Been off-grid for a year and have dealt with a 12V setup and have watched it manually for cloudy days, etc. so I am used to it, but I need to also start trusting my hardware, and like everything, once you are used to it, you wonder how you went without it. Right now, I am not used to it.
Can I do that or would this require a dedicated connection?

 

[BentleyJ]

No gen does not need to be connected unless you want to set up autostart if that is even available on the Honda.