Clawing back money for miss-sold "420ah" cells

RGIvy

Solar Enthusiast
Covered in another thread, we recently took delivery of and tested capacity for cells sold as 420ah.
The cells in question tested out at 242-244ah, so basically less than 60% of stated capacity.
This is the thread: 420ah Cells

We're now beginning the process of obtaining a refund.
We're trying, in order of sequence, three ways to obtain a refund:
  1. Agree with seller. They have offered a refund if we, at our expense, return the cells. We will consider this as a last resort as we feel we were miss-sold to (blatantly lied to really) so why should we suffer any expense? Not surprising they are trying to put up roadblocks. First off they don't accept our test results - and in fact don't accept the results from these popular testers (the one that Will Prowse recommended).
  2. Raise a dispute with AliExpress.
  3. Request our credit card company to claw the money back.
Has anyone actually gone through this process?
If so, can you offer any advice?
What kind of "evidence" did AliExpress and/or your credit card company accept?
Will our credit card company even consider the refund without us sending the cells back?

Just to be clear, we don't want the cells. They are inferior quality. But ... we don't see why we should be financially prejudiced in any way when the seller blatantly lied in both the advert and confirmation in a message. However ... if it's the only way to get a refund we'll send them back.

We're currently doing a 2nd capacity test of the whole battery. We're running two of those testers through a Victron shunt for confirmation. Should have the results tomorrow.
 

A.Justice

Swears he didn't start that fire.
It's hard to argue with a calibrated Fluke, and you can get one for around $100 if you look. Use it to show that the meter you have is accurate (or if not, adjust the results accordingly), or do a time vs. amp draw test with the Fluke on camera the entire time.

I was able to get a refund on a sort-of-cheap digital hall effect ammeter after I showed it was very poorly calibrated with the Fluke. The first time they wouldn't accept my refund because they said my multimeter wasn't accurate enough. No fighting with the Fluke though, they just exchanged it.
 

RGIvy

Solar Enthusiast
We ran a capacity test using two testers and a Victron smartshunt. Each tester came out at 120ah (so 240ah combined), the Victron came out at 239.6ah
I'm guessing they may not argue with those results ...
 

12VoltInstalls

Solar Addict
If they don’t do the right thing call your state’s attorney general’s office and open a claim on your credit card
You’ll get your dispute settled fast either by credit card reversal or by refund from the seller.
 

Gadgetnerd

Solar Enthusiast
Who makes 420ah cells...nobody. If you used a cc just call them (cc co.) and they'll pull the money right out of the sellers account (and likely credit you) until resolved. Obviously a TYPO on the rating.
 

RGIvy

Solar Enthusiast
Our account was credited in full, but we had to ship the cells back at our expense. The direct monetary cost to us for this "experiment" was around £100. I'd not include time wasted because it was "educational" and interesting.
We've found that the banks (credit card companies) want to know if you've shipped the product back before they credit your account.
Has anyone been given a refund without shipping the goods back?
 

DerpsyDoodler

Photon Sorcerer
Our account was credited in full, but we had to ship the cells back at our expense. The direct monetary cost to us for this "experiment" was around £100. I'd not include time wasted because it was "educational" and interesting.
We've found that the banks (credit card companies) want to know if you've shipped the product back before they credit your account.
Has anyone been given a refund without shipping the goods back?
Did you explain the situation and cost of returning the cells? Personally, I would not settle for having to pay even $100 (or euro in your case). That's a drop in the bucket by comparison of total cost, but right is right.
 

RGIvy

Solar Enthusiast
We didn't bother explaining because both the seller and AliExpress know the costs.
And I agree right is right, but this seems to be the price for doing business with AliExpress and Alibaba. It shouldn't be but it is!
 

RGIvy

Solar Enthusiast
We have another dispute that we have taken to our CC provider. It's for Juntek shunts (Juntek shunts)
We lost the dispute on Alibaba arbitration, so hoping Barclays CC will refund us as we have a box of 20 shunts that are not fit for purpose.
 

12VoltInstalls

Solar Addict
didn't bother explaining because both the seller and AliExpress know the costs.
The word unfair doesn’t apply here. However the word legality does. If you are sold a defective or fraudulent claim product, it should cost the consumer (in the former) or the victim nothing to be restored or “made whole.” The cost of litigating is protecting the sellers from consumers who get harmed and bearing the cost incurred is “harm” under the law in certain situations where return expenses are basically a racket.
I’m not a lawyer. There’s got to be case precedents somewhere where someone got pissed off enough to litigate in spite of the foolhardy expense to file suite.
 

Q-Dog

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The word unfair doesn’t apply here. However the word legality does. If you are sold a defective or fraudulent claim product, it should cost the consumer (in the former) or the victim nothing to be restored or “made whole.” The cost of litigating is protecting the sellers from consumers who get harmed and bearing the cost incurred is “harm” under the law.
I’m not a lawyer. There’s got to be case precedents somewhere where someone got pissed off enough to litigate in spite of the foolhardy expense to file suite.
What law? You folks are buying stuff directly from China. You need a lawyer that understands China's commerce laws. If you want to be protected by US law, buy from US suppliers.
 

A.Justice

Swears he didn't start that fire.
We have another dispute that we have taken to our CC provider. It's for Juntek shunts (Juntek shunts)
We lost the dispute on Alibaba arbitration, so hoping Barclays CC will refund us as we have a box of 20 shunts that are not fit for purpose.
If you don't get a refund, you could probably list them here for what you paid. People want stuff fast.
 

Q-Dog

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I suspect the seller made a typographic error in their listing and the OP tried to exploit that to get free or discounted cells. I agree, sell them to someone else and move on to something that matters.
 

RGIvy

Solar Enthusiast
I suspect the seller made a typographic error in their listing and the OP tried to exploit that to get free or discounted cells. I agree, sell them to someone else and move on to something that matters.
Except that the OP (that would be me) specifically asked the seller if there was a mistake. The seller made it very clear that ALL the cells tested out at 420ah. We asked for test results, we were assured that they would all be 420ah.
Other people have experienced the same.

How on earth can you make the judgement that I was after free cells? Your comment is totally unacceptable.
 

JMc

Solar Enthusiast
240AH became 420AH, an obvious typo, because to believe otherwise at that price/cell is wishful thinking. It was too good to be true so deal with the reality of the situation and move forward. Unless some payment processor will take your side, your money is gone.
 
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