Considering DIY Long distance from panels

[CoolWill]

I wonder if the for the costs of separate inverters for pv and battery it would be cheaper to just run new wire for PV DC circuits.

I don't know anything about the grid tie stuff but 500 feet of trenching and conduit and wire is measured in a monetary unit known as a "shitton".

 

[SilverbackMP]

I don't know anything about the grid tie stuff but 500 feet of trenching and conduit and wire is measured in a monetary unit known as a "shitton".

$1,350 ish for schedule 40 2-inch conduit for one run; more if he wants two runs. More if he wants/requires some schedule 80. I dunno how many arrays so I can't calculate wire costs.

Edit: probably more like $1600 by the time your add in some elbows, junction boxes, happy to glad connectors, etc.

 

[Hedges]

I wonder if the for the costs of separate inverters for pv and battery it would be cheaper to just run new wire for PV DC circuits.

Could be, especially with the price of AC coupled battery inverters. But they are often the big iron LF products good for heavy loads.

Going with light weight HF, one home run is sufficient for 12 kWh feeding Sunny Boy Smart Energy. Get a 7.7kW unit, parallel MPPT A & B for 30A, 600Vmax, 400Vmp, 12kW input. That would deliver 7.7kW to grid or loads while charging battery at 5.3kW (up to 10kW max or 30A max, range of battery voltages supported.)

Officially, 15kW PV supported for that inverter (which has 3 MPPT, two that can be paralleled). But I would put 20kW of PV on it, two 10kW arrays of different orientation. 60A Isc max for the two paralleled MPPT.

SMA has not said that ABU (200A transfer switch and auto-transformer) is supported. It was for Sunny Boy Storage, a battery-only inverter, so I expect it. European model says support is coming in the future for external transfer switch. European 3-phase version has that internally.

 

[CoolWill]

$1,350 ish for schedule 40 2-inch conduit for one run; more if he wants two runs. More if he wants/requires some schedule 80. I dunno how many arrays so I can't calculate wire costs.

Plus trench.

 

[SilverbackMP]

Plus trench.

Yeah, that's just the conduit cost.

 

[Hedges]

I just paid $75 for 500' of 12 awg stranded THHN/THWN2
couple years ago, $54
Home Depo and Lowes now carry just THHN. Home Depot description incorrectly says "wet", Lowes says "dry"

 

[Jim in Florida]

Staying out of the wire management issues but there are WiFi solutions for longer distances.
For $79 each of the big internet shipping site I share internet connection with my rural neighbor.
Each dish is wired back to a switch but have seen 140mbs transfer rates over 400 yards between dishes. It claims 18 miles, I have not tried that.

 

[pvgirl]

Home Depo and Lowes now carry just THHN. Home Depot description incorrectly says "wet", Lowes says "dry"

Although the "THHN" they do sell is multiple rated so it's THHN and THWN rated. From the data sheet for some home depot THHN:

All sizes rated both THHN and either THWN (sizes 14, 12, and 10 AWG) or THWN-2 (sizes 8 AWG and larger and 14,12,​

10 AWG in SIMpull BARREL™ or SIMpull ® CoilPAK™ configurations). Also Rated MTW and AWM (See Below).​

 

[Zwy]

I don't know anything about the grid tie stuff but 500 feet of trenching and conduit and wire is measured in a monetary unit known as a "shitton".

If the triplex is in conduit, pull it out and use it for something else.

Then pull new wire for multiple PV circuits.

Only question- was conduit ran for the triplex?

 

[Zwy]

View attachment 173038

Staying out of the wire management issues but there are WiFi solutions for longer distances.
For $79 each of the big internet shipping site I share internet connection with my rural neighbor.
Each dish is wired back to a switch but have seen 140mbs transfer rates over 400 yards between dishes. It claims 18 miles, I have not tried that.

I've used something similar for close to 20 years now. Original system provided internet connection to the shop from my house which were a few city blocks apart. When I purchased an acreage and built a new shop, the system was installed here. I use Engenius here. https://www.amazon.com/EnGenius-EnS...TXMBLG1/dp/B07TXMBLG1/ref=dp_ob_title_ce?th=1

Using a system similar at an array would require a 120V AC power connection for the POE. It would also require some type of enclosure for the power supply and for the router which will be required at each end.

 

[400bird]

Back to the OP. There's plenty of options, some better then other, some just plain bad. But at the end of the day, you need to define something. Either an energy audit or budget $$$. Both would be best.

Also, need to figure out if you're going grid tied, grid support/backup, or completely off grid.

Staying out of the wire management issues but there are WiFi solutions for longer distances.
For $79 each of the big internet shipping site I share internet connection with my rural neighbor.
Each dish is wired back to a switch but have seen 140mbs transfer rates over 400 yards between dishes. It claims 18 miles, I have not tried that.

Ugh, I wasn't trying to say it was impossible to get communication from the array mounted inverter back to the house, just that it was more work and more $. I really should have better communicated my initial post on that.
You could also pay Ma Bell to run a copper phone line and sign up for DSL. Or Star Link. Or many other options that all involve more cost and/or time. The WiFi at the house exists already (I assume) and includes no incremental cost. Plus you can just walk over and click a button in your slippers, not so much if you put it 500 feet away.

 

[Checkthisout]

1000 feet of cat 5 $140.00

 

[Supervstech]

1000 feet of cat 5 $140.00

Why do you mention this?

 

[Checkthisout]

Why do you mention this?

Might as well throw it in the trench for monitoring if one is going to be placing equipment down at the array. Waaayyu cheaper than farting around with routers, extenders and antennas.

 

[pvgirl]

Might as well throw it in the trench for monitoring if one is going to be placing equipment down at the array. Waaayyu cheaper than farting around with routers, extenders and antennas.

Ethernet over cat5 is limited to 328ft max. Would have to go fiber or wireless for that distance.

 

[SilverbackMP]

Ethernet over cat5 is limited to 328ft max. Would have to go fiber or wireless for that distance.

I would go fiber just because I’m paranoid about lightning strikes. Yeah, I know there would be some big conductors already there, but all my large runs between buildings are fiber as some level of mitigation. Only thing that I have as external Cat is POE cameras. And they have Ditek surge protectors. There are solar/battery fiber to Cat compressors available that could be used at the far end.

 

[Checkthisout]

Ethernet over cat5 is limited to 328ft max. Would have to go fiber or wireless for that distance.

Look at POE switches on Amazon with the "extend" function.

It works. I have a camera operating at 800 feet over POE and it's just as fast as the camera operating at 20 feet.

If you're ever bored, terminate a 1000 foot spool at both ends and then hook it to something.

You'll find it works just fine.

 

[Supervstech]

Look at POE switches on Amazon with the "extend" function.

It works. I have a camera operating at 800 feet over POE and it's just as fast as the camera operating at 20 feet.

If you're ever bored, terminate a 1000 foot spool at both ends and then hook it to something.

You'll find it works just fine.

This is often true, I have been in CNE for decades, and the 328'(100m) rule is surely just a guideline. Packets aren't secure, the signal degradation isn't guaranteed, and crosstalk is more likely...
But often it works fine. Sure, it CAN be a mess causing tons of bad signalling... but in a chase, in the dirt, I wouldn't be surprised if it worked fine...

Odds are high that damage could easily be done by emf, or any number of issues...
On a critical piece of hardware, I wouldn't do it.

Hooked to a cheapo switch, where the damage could easily be replaced... I might try.

 

[Checkthisout]

This is often true, I have been in CNE for decades, and the 328'(100m) rule is surely just a guideline. Packets aren't secure, the signal degradation isn't guaranteed, and crosstalk is more likely...
But often it works fine. Sure, it CAN be a mess causing tons of bad signalling... but in a chase, in the dirt, I wouldn't be surprised if it worked fine...

Odds are high that damage could easily be done by emf, or any number of issues...
On a critical piece of hardware, I wouldn't do it.

Hooked to a cheapo switch, where the damage could easily be replaced... I might try.

Right. I certainly wouldn't have 25 devices coming to a switch and then take the data I/O cable from that switch, run it 800 feet to a router and expect it work but a single device like a camera seems to work excellent.

 

[georgia088]

Plus planning on running inefficient appliances is a money and energy losing proposition.

I have to admit I don’t plan or see the benefit of replacing my perfectly good 16 seer (I know this isn’t super efficient) ac unit with the most energy efficient unit. I would consider replacing it when the ac unit goes out, but not at this time. Same for my refrigerator. I think I would then have to look at cost of the energy efficient appliance vs. return on energy savings. How much are these ac units you are talking about?

As for a budget, I don’t have a budget. I don’t have unlimited funds either. I have the batteries or at least one set possibly 2. 48v 105ah. That is what has sparked the interest in connection them to my house with solar to charge. With those one or two packs what is the best route to go? How many panels? What size inverter. What is best way to connect to grid? Taking in to consideration I may want to expand later.

Congratulations OP on your question post becoming the party thread of the week lol.

? I apparently stirred up a nest, and wow can we get on some tangents about a wide variety of… well about anything.

I think I am getting some criticism for not being clear but that has not been my intent. To be clear, I don’t know exactly what I want to do. I would like to star slow and relatively inexpensive and see how I like it and if it may benefit me to expand.