December PV starting off crappy again.

[42OhmsPA]

Keep in mind these are regular electric heating elements. I measured them using my new toy, a Klein C390 clamp/voltmeter. I took off the door from our house electrical panel and carefully took some AC current readings.

Some other readings-
Dryer - 25A (6kw)
Water heater - 15A (3.7kw)
Oven - 11A (2.5kw)
Electric heat - 50A (?!?!) (12kw)

So, yeah we try not to run the heat too much. If you don't like a cold house, don't stay with us, we usually keep it around 65F in the winter. That's why I try to take advantage of sunny days and use the space heater for free.

Thank you. I'm also debating an electric or heat pump water heater...
I've been impressed with my mini split to supplement the coal stove.

If it's 30F or so ambient I can heat the 1300 sqft house with two portable oil filled heaters, 1500W each, 72F. Once it drops to 20F need to throw an extra blanket on.

I'm betting you have some great insulation and air tightness.

 

[gotbeans]

I'd only go heat pump water heater if you're in a hotter climate and want the cooling benefit (at their current price)
Otherwise it seems you save more $$ even at like 50 years if you just insulate an electric water heater more than it is already. Just 2 inch of pink foam board from home depot around it for example

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Exhibit A. I had to chip out 6" of slush turned ice to water the pigs this morning.

View attachment 204577

I don’t miss that. Sorry..

 

[Brucey]

Thank you. I'm also debating an electric or heat pump water heater...
I've been impressed with my mini split to supplement the coal stove.

I'm betting you have some great insulation and air tightness.

Yes pretty tight, 2015 construction, R21 in the walls and R49 in the ceiling. Low-e windows. Ranch style with walkout basement so potentially some stability from earth on three sides there. There a 96% two stage propane furnace but it hasn't worked in a couple years and I find the electric heat is cheaper. Central AC works so haven't dug into that problem. Have the furnace blower running on fan constantly to move the heat around.

 

[Zwy]

I'd only go heat pump water heater if you're in a hotter climate and want the cooling benefit (at their current price)
Otherwise it seems you save more $$ even at like 50 years if you just insulate an electric water heater more than it is already. Just 2 inch of pink foam board from home depot around it for example

I recently installed a 50 gallon Rheem hybrid in series to my propane which is last in the series. I run the Rheem hybrid at 140°F usually and with the 50 gallon propane will give about 2 days worth of hot water if I turn the heat pump water heater off and the propane doesn't kick in. The propane is set to a lower temp so it will only run if the hybrid is off for a few days.

It takes about 3.5Kwh or less to run per day, less if I only run it during sunlight as a dump load only. One does have the option to use the resistive element in times of high demand. A 9 or 12 year warranty 50 gallon resistive only water heater will range in price from $600 to $800. A wi fi version (the hybrid has wif fi for smart home operation) will run $800. A lifetime warranty 50 gallon unit like I just purchased for a rental I own was $1400. I paid $1400 for the hybrid (on sale) and it qualifies for 30% tax credit of $420. For about $180 more I have a hybrid water heater.

If one was paying for electricity, the Energy Guide shows a 50 gallon resistive water heater will cost $494 per year to operate (3531Kwh). The hybrid I own will cost $121 per year to operate according to the Energy Guide (866Kwh). In six months the extra $180 is already paid back. I'd rather use the 2665 Kwh per year for something else. This also means if off grid there is extended run time off limited resources- sun hours and batteries.

Added bonus: my basement in summer gets warm and humid. I won't have to run a dehumidifier in the basement as the hybrid running in heat pump mode not only will cool the basement but also remove humidity.

And yes, I live where it gets to -20°F just about every winter.

 

[Subdood]

Thank you. I'm also debating an electric or heat pump water heater...
I've been impressed with my mini split to supplement the coal stove.

I'm betting you have some great insulation and air tightness.

Some folks I've heard really like their heat pump water heaters and their low power usage, but they seem a bit pricey. Guess I'll stick with the old heat element variety for now.

The more I've looked your inverter, and heard your praises of it, the more interested in it I'm getting. It seems like it'd be a nice move up from what I have. My only concern is buying it off of Alibaba. Is it UL certified or listed? I think I saw something about having UL1741 accreditation? I'll have to wait a while before I can buy another inverter, but it's piqued my interest.

We were at Walmart after work picking up some things and we happened to pass by a stack of the Midea 8K U shaped units, they're going for $347. My wife was kind of surprised by them, she thought they were solar powered, guess she assumed if I brought it up it was solar related. I told her no, but the inverter could run it like the other 120V stuff.

From what y'all have said they sip the power, so we could probably get away with running it at night if necessary, like if the power does go out. So I think I've almost convinced her on them..

 

[Zwy]

Some folks I've heard really like their heat pump water heaters and their low power usage, but they seem a bit pricey. Guess I'll stick with the old heat element variety for now.

Ya know the old saying, pay me now or pay me later.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Some folks I've heard really like their heat pump water heaters and their low power usage, but they seem a bit pricey. Guess I'll stick with the old heat element variety for now.

The more I've looked your inverter, and heard your praises of it, the more interested in it I'm getting. It seems like it'd be a nice move up from what I have. My only concern is buying it off of Alibaba. Is it UL certified or listed? I think I saw something about having UL1741 accreditation? I'll have to wait a while before I can buy another inverter, but it's piqued my interest.

We were at Walmart after work picking up some things and we happened to pass by a stack of the Midea 8K U shaped units, they're going for $347. My wife was kind of surprised by them, she thought they were solar powered, guess she assumed if I brought it up it was solar related. I told her no, but the inverter could run it like the other 120V stuff.

From what y'all have said they sip the power, so we could probably get away with running it at night if necessary, like if the power does go out. So I think I've almost convinced her on them..

To the best of the knowledge the ASF isn't UL listed but it conforms to the 1741 standard.
Some of the HF series are listed.

Feel free to ask any questions in my thread or pm so we don't keep derailing this one.


It's just crazy that I could triple Decembers production and would have already if I had more loads to run. Just over 110kWh in the past 2 days.

 

[timselectric]

I hit a daily record of 80Kwh a couple of days ago.
Next goal is 100Kwh.

 

[Brucey]

Some folks I've heard really like their heat pump water heaters and their low power usage, but they seem a bit pricey. Guess I'll stick with the old heat element variety for now.

The more I've looked your inverter, and heard your praises of it, the more interested in it I'm getting. It seems like it'd be a nice move up from what I have. My only concern is buying it off of Alibaba. Is it UL certified or listed? I think I saw something about having UL1741 accreditation? I'll have to wait a while before I can buy another inverter, but it's piqued my interest.

We were at Walmart after work picking up some things and we happened to pass by a stack of the Midea 8K U shaped units, they're going for $347. My wife was kind of surprised by them, she thought they were solar powered, guess she assumed if I brought it up it was solar related. I told her no, but the inverter could run it like the other 120V stuff.

From what y'all have said they sip the power, so we could probably get away with running it at night if necessary, like if the power does go out. So I think I've almost convinced her on them..

The 8k model seems to be rated a fair bit louder (42dB) than the 10 and 12k (32dB)? Only thing that gives me pause.

 

[Subdood]

To the best of the knowledge the ASF isn't UL listed but it conforms to the 1741 standard.
Some of the HF series are listed.

Feel free to ask any questions in my thread or pm so we don't keep derailing this one.


It's just crazy that I could triple Decembers production and would have already if I had more loads to run. Just over 110kWh in the past 2 days.
View attachment 204746

Ok, I'll ask any more SRNE questions on your thread. I appreciate the info.

We hit 111kwh for the month today, so we will blow thru last month's record easily. We're also getting close our first MWh since we went online about a year ago. Until we got the batteries we never got above 90kwh/mo, because there wasn't anywhere for the power to go. Now we're getting minimum of 3kwh a day, if the sun's out, plus around 20k on the weekends.

Since we got our second 5kwh battery we have rarely used the grid for our 120V loads. So we're kinda, sorta almost off-grid..

 

[Subdood]

The 8k model seems to be rated a fair bit louder (42dB) than the 10 and 12k (32dB)? Only thing that gives me pause.

Yeah but 42db is pretty quiet as it is. That's just below normal talking volume. I guess if it was in a bedroom that might be an issue. But sometimes I turn on a small fan to give me a little white noise to help me sleep.

And to drown out the incessant barking of my dog outside..

 

[gotbeans]

I recently installed a 50 gallon Rheem hybrid in series to my propane which is last in the series. I run the Rheem hybrid at 140°F usually and with the 50 gallon propane will give about 2 days worth of hot water if I turn the heat pump water heater off and the propane doesn't kick in. The propane is set to a lower temp so it will only run if the hybrid is off for a few days.

It takes about 3.5Kwh or less to run per day, less if I only run it during sunlight as a dump load only. One does have the option to use the resistive element in times of high demand. A 9 or 12 year warranty 50 gallon resistive only water heater will range in price from $600 to $800. A wi fi version (the hybrid has wif fi for smart home operation) will run $800. A lifetime warranty 50 gallon unit like I just purchased for a rental I own was $1400. I paid $1400 for the hybrid (on sale) and it qualifies for 30% tax credit of $420. For about $180 more I have a hybrid water heater.

If one was paying for electricity, the Energy Guide shows a 50 gallon resistive water heater will cost $494 per year to operate (3531Kwh). The hybrid I own will cost $121 per year to operate according to the Energy Guide (866Kwh). In six months the extra $180 is already paid back. I'd rather use the 2665 Kwh per year for something else. This also means if off grid there is extended run time off limited resources- sun hours and batteries.

Added bonus: my basement in summer gets warm and humid. I won't have to run a dehumidifier in the basement as the hybrid running in heat pump mode not only will cool the basement but also remove humidity.

And yes, I live where it gets to -20°F just about every winter.

wow heat pump water heaters are down like $1000 in the past year
definitely getting worth it

someone should make a garage freezer / water heater hybrid that cools the freezer & heats the water

 

[Subdood]

Ya know the old saying, pay me now or pay me later.

Well our water heater is in a sealed compartment behind a closet in our single wide, so a heat pump water heater wouldn't be too practical for us, as far as the heat pump aspect is concerned.

We actually had the original one replaced about 4 years ago, it had started to leak. Didn't know until we saw water in the office near the closet. It was a real pain getting to it and replacing it. You had to empty the closet, then take off the compartment wall to get to it. Had to have my burly plumber nephew to wrestle the old one out and put the new one into place, no way I could've done it.

Yes it's not as efficient, but it doesn't use a bunch of power compared to our other appliances and HVAC related stuff.

 

[Zwy]

Well our water heater is in a sealed compartment behind a closet in our single wide, so a heat pump water heater wouldn't be too practical for us, as far as the heat pump aspect is concerned.

The heat pump water heaters that are AIO are somewhat noisy (around 60 db) so in your case it might not work for you.

As for the sealed compartment, they now offer venting kits. I've read some cases where people had the inlet piped close to a refrigerator for example, and the outlet piped to an area they wanted cooler air. Mounted in a closet is a perfect case for venting. Venting might also cut down the noise.

 

[gotbeans]

The heat pump water heaters that are AIO are somewhat noisy (around 60 db) so in your case it might not work for you.

As for the sealed compartment, they now offer venting kits. I've read some cases where people had the inlet piped close to a refrigerator for example, and the outlet piped to an area they wanted cooler air. Mounted in a closet is a perfect case for venting. Venting might also cut down the noise.

yea it's really interesting to think about for my situation.. I think I'd have to do 2 sets of pipes for winter/summer <__<

 

[murmeister]

Didn't know where else to brag - but I'm so excited - I have generated MORE PV input than consumption in about two months - in the winter!

We only had 6 (out of 32) panels hooked up with no batteries for a few weeks. Today, we surpassed consumption with production. A banner day to me.

Now, back to the rest of my projects...

 

[Zwy]

yea it's really interesting to think about for my situation.. I think I'd have to do 2 sets of pipes for winter/summer <__<

I think most are just using regular round heating duct found just about anywhere.

 

[gotbeans]

I think most are just using regular round heating duct found just about anywhere.

Yea I know, I mean how I'd personally organize my pipes and which rooms and where during which seasons.. I have green house that produces heat in winter and going to dig geothermal and other stuff so something for me to ponder.

Maybe you know.. I have a lot of questions I might call rheem
Why are these hybrid heat pumps all 240v but the straight heat pump water heaters are all 120v?
Do the 240v hybrid heat pumps use 240v for the heat pump part too or only the electric resistive heaters?
Why are the non hybrids more money if they're just the heat pump part...?

 

[Zwy]

Yea I know, I mean how I'd personally organize my pipes and which rooms and where during which seasons.. I have green house that produces heat in winter and going to dig geothermal and other stuff so something for me to ponder.

If you are going geothermal then I would look into heating your water with the geothermal heat pump. More efficient.

Maybe you know.. I have a lot of questions I might call rheem
Why are these hybrid heat pumps all 240v but the straight heat pump water heaters are all 120v?

4500W heating element so 18A per leg.

Do the 240v hybrid heat pumps use 240v for the heat pump part too or only the electric resistive heaters?

Uses 240V for compressor, about 150W per leg, I just checked.

Why are the non hybrids more money if they're just the heat pump part...?

Good question, don't know. I looked at compressor size and did not see any difference. I would not buy a heat pump only unit. There are times when the heating element can work well as a dump load or quicker recovery. End of the day battery bank hits full charge and heat pump water heater is not 100% full of hot water. Just switch over to the heating element to dump excess PV.