FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
Where is that statement from?
EG4 new AIO rated 12K output and 18kPV aka "EG4-18Kpv-12LV"
- Thread starter Zapper77
- Start date
What about DIY LFP batteries (that lots of people have here) that don't have that convenient ethernet cable connection? Are you really going to void people's warranties because they do not have an EG4 battery?
I have never heard of anyone's inverter blowing up because they didn't have BMS comms set up. Plenty of oddities with BMS comms set up though (not necessarily with EG4 batteries, just speaking in general).
HighTechLab
AKA Dexter - CTO of Current Connected, LLC
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They could integrate REC BMS with the inverter, then you can have DIY batteries. There are a lot of new BMSs out there that support communication, even some of the new JBD's have RS485. Also they added support for a ton of different battery companies, SOK included, so you are not in any way trapped into using EG4 batteries specifically.
I sat in on a training call for these units this last week, and some of the most impressive features of the inverter benefit most from communications - for example, from what I understand, you can have two inverters in parallel with completely separate battery banks connected to each inverter that properly share the system loads to prevent from over-discharging one battery bank before the other.
And finally, yes, I've seen some MPP inverters blow up their fet boards when they were charging full tilt and a BMS decided to randomly disconnect and cause a voltage spike. Ask Ian from Watts 247 about it, he will gladly go on a rant.
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
I don't know if he will do it, but I asked @Will Prowse to do a battery-build video with a BMS that does closed-loop coms with an inverter. I think the people building batteries from cells would appreciate it.
EG4 18kPV Hybrid Inverter | All-In-One Solar Inverter | 18000W PV Input | 12000W Output | 48V 120/240V Split Phase | EG4 18KPV-12LV
Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL
signaturesolar.com
If I use JK BMS's that means I basically can't use the 18kPV?
Lt.Dan
Solar Wizard
You can use it all day, you just forfeit your warranty.You have to click on the "Warranty Information" tab.EG4 18kPV Hybrid Inverter | All-In-One Solar Inverter | 18000W PV Input | 12000W Output | 48V 120/240V Split Phase | EG4 18KPV-12LV
Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL
If I use JK BMS's that means I basically can't use the 18kPV?
Or is the warranty void only if the BMS was found at fault?
My concern would be if something actually breaks because BMS turns off for whatever reason which would not be uncommon. I don't think I've ever seen such a warranty exception on any other equipment. I was wondering why the manual also states that you need close loop communication. Is it designed such that any disconnection from battery unexpectedly under certain conditions causes damage?
SignatureSolarJames
Try Solar, the Grid will always take you back
we are open to comms with any bms our customers need, frankly they are an inbred family and odds are that they are already compatible, just have to try it out and fw update the bms possibly, this is a DIY bms mfr problem which we can supprt but they have to support and own the help
Could these 2 separate battery banks be charged separately at different voltages or at lead different float or absorption voltages
SignatureSolarJames
Try Solar, the Grid will always take you back
The multiple banks feature excludes lead acid for now
For reference the manual states: "EG4® strongly recommends using closed-loop communications between your battery and inverter."
I could not find anywhere that states what BMS's are compatible or even batteries. Is that listed somewhere or must you only use the EG4 batteries with the 18kPV to have a warranty at this time? I did notice Will in his video specifically connected it only to an EG4 server rack batteries.
I could not find anywhere that states what BMS's are compatible or even batteries. Is that listed somewhere or must you only use the EG4 batteries with the 18kPV to have a warranty at this time? I did notice Will in his video specifically connected it only to an EG4 server rack batteries.
Zapper77
Renaissance Man
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I though he stated that he had comms connected with only two. I guess I just assumed it was his Jumbo battery pack with comm hooked up on only two of the batteries.
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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I have to say that I find this tidbit about not supporting / voiding the warranty when used with lifepo4 batteries without comms very disturbing. Especially considering my love of 12v batteries in series that don't have comms... 
To avoid issues, like I had with Fortress power, I humbly suggest having a disclaimer stated very boldly that this inverter requires battery comms in order to have warranty coverage.
To avoid issues, like I had with Fortress power, I humbly suggest having a disclaimer stated very boldly that this inverter requires battery comms in order to have warranty coverage.
Lt.Dan
Solar Wizard
So to ask my question again, is the warranty void if ANY battery without Comms is connected? For say a Daly BMS with no communications? Or is it only void if the damage is confirmed caused by the BMS with no Comms? Because if the screen burns out, and I send the unit back, but i never had a BMS with communication hooked up to it. I'd be pretty upset if it wasn't covered.
robby
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A reoccurring theme!I have to say that I find this tidbit about not supporting / voiding the warranty when used with lifepo4 batteries without comms very disturbing. Especially considering my love of 12v batteries in series that don't have comms...
To avoid issues, like I had with Fortress power, I humbly suggest having a disclaimer stated very boldly that this inverter requires battery comms in order to have warranty coverage.
I had no idea why Fortress power said that there version would not be warrantied unless it is hooked up to Fortress Powers Batteries in closed loop. I wonder if the Inverter has issues with Voltage modes?
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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Yeah, doesn't make it a bad inverter necessarily, but this kind of stuff needs to be way out in the open.
I would also suggest @Will Prowse mention such requirements in his reviews if he is aware of them, at least until this becomes more of the standard, that voltage only modes are not supported/warrantied.
I would also suggest @Will Prowse mention such requirements in his reviews if he is aware of them, at least until this becomes more of the standard, that voltage only modes are not supported/warrantied.
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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It shouldn't even have voltage modes if it doesn't warranty them, or it needs to be programmed to tell you, "Are you sure? This voids your warranty."
Tulex
Solar Wizard
Do I have to worry about his with my Sol-Ark 15K?
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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Honestly, it's a good question, have you read the warranty? Do you use batteries without comms?Do I have to worry about his with my Sol-Ark 15K?
Tulex
Solar Wizard
None of my equipment is installed yet, but I am building batteries with seplos Bms, so I should have comms.
Just read the warranty, I see nothing about comms
Warranties are here and only thing that remotely comes close which doesn't sound like it:
- Incidental or consequential damage caused by other components of the power system
They also have document listing every battery they can communicate with and exactly how to here (even includes change log)
Looking at the Sol-Ark 15k manual I saw no reference to needing closed loop communication with battery and lists the voltages it uses for the charge profiles.
It does specifically state though that for a parallel/stacked Sol-Ark system they must use same battery whereas the EG4 18kPV as stated previously can use completely separate battery banks.
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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This issue with the comms on the EG418k gets me thinking..
What if I have an EG4 Chargeverter supplying power onto the bus bar?
What if I have other solar charger controllers supplying power onto the bus bar?
What if I have other inverters/loads besides the EG418k pulling power from the bus bar?
What if I have a battery with comms connected to the the EG418k but have other non comms batteries on the bus bar?
I see many situations where there are DC loads/supplies supplying power to the same bus bar / circuit that the EG418k is attached on. Is the only thing allowed on that circuit batteries with comms?
What if I have an EG4 Chargeverter supplying power onto the bus bar?
What if I have other solar charger controllers supplying power onto the bus bar?
What if I have other inverters/loads besides the EG418k pulling power from the bus bar?
What if I have a battery with comms connected to the the EG418k but have other non comms batteries on the bus bar?
I see many situations where there are DC loads/supplies supplying power to the same bus bar / circuit that the EG418k is attached on. Is the only thing allowed on that circuit batteries with comms?
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timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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I just want a simple yes or no answer.
Is the warranty voided if communications are not used?
If no, then all is well.
If yes, then I will check it off my list of possibilities.
Is the warranty voided if communications are not used?
If no, then all is well.
If yes, then I will check it off my list of possibilities.
HighTechLab
AKA Dexter - CTO of Current Connected, LLC
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Sol-Ark:
Now that said, Sol-ark lacks the functionality of having multiple, separate battery banks. There is a fine line where you trade compatibility with everything for added functionality.
Now that said, Sol-ark lacks the functionality of having multiple, separate battery banks. There is a fine line where you trade compatibility with everything for added functionality.
Lt.Dan
Solar Wizard
What is the purpose of seperate battery banks? I don't understand why someone would need that?
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