Envision 315Ah Cell

[OffGridForGood]

I have purchased and built three DIY 16S batteries for my ESS using 280Ah EVE cells. I got them for resonable price (between $88 to $100 USD each plus the shipping) and they tested a bit under the 280Ah using an ZKTECH 40A tester not ideal temp (specs call for testing at 25C +/-5C ( I tested at 18C) anyway I knew from the forum the 280's may test lower, but for ESS use and the price, I was satisfied with the capacity of these cells.
Recently, I ordered 8 -304Ah cells for a 24-volt pack that will serve multi-duty in the Green house, in my RV camping, and for trips to my fishing cabin a few times per year.
The interactions with suppliers on Alibaba has lead to one offering "315Ah Envision Cells" I have never heard of these and am skeptical. I don't see any such Cell discussed (from a forum search) I asked and got the attached spec sheet, and photo. - any information from someone on the forum about "Envision 315Ah cells"?

 

[rodrick]

I’ve been told all of the batteries being sold claiming higher than 304 Ah are basically 304 but test higher for a couple of cycles but basically nothing more than a 304 with false advertising/marketing

 

[OffGridForGood]

I’ve been told all of the batteries being sold claiming higher than 304 Ah are basically 304 but test higher for a couple of cycles but basically nothing more than a 304 with false advertising/marketing

I have read similar claims, however until now, I have never seen a spec sheet listing 315Ah to go along with marketing claims. This cell is being offered on Alibaba (not aliexpress).
The technology continues to move. I don't want to assume that 304Ah is some hard limit that will "never be exceeded" - don't want to be lead down the path either.
Not too many years ago, I would have said 'no such thing as a PV-panel over 500W' - no longer the case today.
It will not surprise me to see in a few more years single cells with 400Ah or higher capacity, likely this will come in small steps.

 

[OffGridForGood]

The Spec sheet is 17 pages, not some marketing statement with nothing behind it.
The 315Ah , 1008Wh claim, 5000cycles with less than 70% loss of capacity under specific conditions, all data like any other cell would have.
I could ask them to provide a charge/discharge curve and see what they send me.

 

[Steve_S]

A HEADS UP FOLKS !
CATL, EVE and a couple of other Manufacturers are indeed increasing Cell Sizes. For example, EVE is working on a new family of cells that will see up to 550AH Cells become available... The target for those is Q2 2024. CATL & BYD are doing similar with Q1 & Q2 2024 release dates. In the interim, we will see larger capacity cells become available as they are released to the public.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Very interesting Steve,
I did a bit of digging online, seems AESC (Automotive Energy Supply Corporation) was founded as a joint venture between Nissian and NEC-Tokin to develop Lithium batteries. Seems like a real battery company on the face of it.
Edit:
Envision AESC is a Japanese Corp, and in 2022 signed a deal to supply BMW with automotive grade cells.

 

[rodrick]

The Spec sheet is 17 pages, not some marketing statement with nothing behind it.
The 315Ah , 1008Wh claim, 5000cycles with less than 70% loss of capacity under specific conditions, all data like any other cell would have.
I could ask them to provide a charge/discharge curve and see what they send me.

If you have a use for a 12 volt battery you could do a test for a month or so and then know if you have a good cell or marketing bs

 

[OffGridForGood]

If you have a use for a 12 volt battery you could do a test for a month or so and then know if you have a good cell or marketing bs

Depending on the price, I am considering a 8S 24v DIY battery just to get some cells and test them; but not if the whole "315Ah" is a sham in the first place.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Interesting to read the history of this company, from a 2007 JV between Nissian and NEC to Nissian selling off part of it's ownership (moving to third-party battery suppliers) to Chinese purchase of 25% of this company, BMW and Renault deals. Manufacturing plants listed or planned: Japan, England, China, France, & USA (Kentucky).

 

[rodrick]

from the info from Steve_s it sounds like the next size will be a bigger jump than 11ah so I’m still Leary but if the price is reasonable compared to the 304s you are probably fine to make one battery up and test with minimal risk

 

[OffGridForGood]

from the info from Steve_s it sounds like the next size will be a bigger jump than 11ah so I’m still Leary but if the price is reasonable compared to the 304s you are probably fine to make one battery up and test with minimal risk

Or I should wait a year, per Steve's posting and get in on the bigger cells? (would that make me a guinea pig?) LOL.
I didn't ask about price yet, I think I will take this step to test the waters, and ask about a charge/discharge curve for this type of cell.
I have found, generally, shipping is more efficient with larger cells, ie you can get a lower delivered cost per battery buy using the largest cell capacity available. Two sets of 140Ah cells delivered will cost more than one set of 280Ah cells,. Will see what they want for the 315Ah. x 8

 

[houseofancients]

I’ve been told all of the batteries being sold claiming higher than 304 Ah are basically 304 but test higher for a couple of cycles but basically nothing more than a 304 with false advertising/marketing

the one exception would be gothian 340ah cells.

winston also makes high ah cells, but they are plastic encased.

 

[OffGridForGood]

the one exception would be gothian 340ah cells.

Did you try them?
results, feed back?

 

[houseofancients]

Did you try them?
results, feed back?

nope, have not..
they are wider and not high enough for my enclosures, so it would require rebuilding it all and that is a bit much for an aditional 36ah

 

[OffGridForGood]

nope, have not..
they are wider and not high enough for my enclosures, so it would require rebuilding it all and that is a bit much for an aditional 36ah

Understand the form factor issues, I hear ya.
I saw the reference to these 340Ah cells from a posting last November, but no definitive (forum member) confirmation of the cells capacity. Did I miss a thread where this was discussed, confirmed?

 

[Steve_S]

By the time cells reach public release, they've been through 12 months of heavy factory testing cycles. It is not like being an Alpha or Beta tester if you want to use those terms. Some are already in that cycle, but I'm not at liberty to expand on that further. NDA's etc.

Size increases are a normal part of the cycle which got a tad slowed during Covidus Interuptus, which is of no surprise to anyone I'm sure. But things are gearing back up and prices are coming down and are projected to continue doing so for the next few months. The 300-350AH bracket will be more popular as they are released through this year, Q4 will likely see the 400-150+ cells go public and so on... basically figure 6-8 Months +/- between steps. Never know, things can always "happen" that affect releases etc...

A word of advice to save $$$. Presently 304+ is HOT and that equates to $$$ but look at how 270-280+ has come down in relation. The 304+ will be lower in 6 months and especially after the next release which the "I gotta have the biggest I can" gang goes nuts for. Just like everything else, the latest & greatest is more $ and comes with possible "teething pains" as a new version. Also just do the quick match of cost per kWh, and decide if it's worth the extra.

FYI, Winston & SinoPoly have a different LFP / LYFP, variant chemistry which affects their voltage curves as well as operational Temperature curves (IE they can be charged @ -20C), Ohhh and not to mention, they cost a crap load more too. Cider Apples to Giant Red Delicious... apples yes but.

Everyones "chemistry" is their own chemical soup and therefore subject to variations that can affect voltage & temp ranges plus many more factors. When I reference numbers these are the generic standard LFP we use in our ESS projects. just for clarity purposes

Hope it helps, Good luck

 

[OffGridForGood]

Thanks Steve, very interested to see what comes out over the next year(s) ahead.
I always calculate total in place cost per kWh when doing my set ups, the 304's for the GH/RV mobile unit was a bit of a primium price hopefully they test close to the full 304, but it was only 8 cells, many comments on the forum have suggested the 304's are quite a bit better than the EVE 280K's so I thought I would try a small set of them.
I will find out if these 315's are selling at a hefty primimum next week, and report back, if they are more than 13% premium over the 280 then likely someone else can be the tester rather than me.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Well the price is $110 USD per cell and $250 to ship them 'Door to Door'. I think I will try 8 for another 24V RV/mobile battery, and see how they do.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Well the price is $110 USD per cell and $250 to ship them 'Door to Door'. I think I will try 8 for another 24V RV/mobile battery, and see how they do.

Did you end up ordering the envision 315ah?

 

[OffGridForGood]

Did you end up ordering the envision 315ah?

After some back and forth with the supplier I did order a set of 8 to try out in my 24v system in my RV.
These are showing ETA of mid July...I will report back once these arrive.