I fear Magnum is done.

[sunshine_eggo]

A possible solution or maybe just a band aid would be to purchase another mspae 4024 and then network them together with the me artr such that the new one is the master and the one with the frequency issue is the slave. The slave would have to be in sync with the master and then it could not go to the 58 hz frequency.

Very expensive band aid, and woefully impractical. No space on the panel.

 

[TorC]

@sunshine_eggo Reading the latter part of this thread, I'm wondering if that inverter somehow got let out of the shop in a non-default configuration that has it set up in frequency control mode. Perhaps because there's nothing for it to vary, when the voltage gets close faster it tries to ramp down the non-extant AC coupled SCCs, which does nothing, so it basically drops to minimum as if a switch was flipped. Sure, a brand new one shouldn't be able to do this, but I've learned to trust very little when it comes to complex electronics.

Any way to perform a full factory reset to standard defaults without a controller panel?

 

[WindWizard]

@sunshine_eggo Reading the latter part of this thread, I'm wondering if that inverter somehow got let out of the shop in a non-default configuration that has it set up in frequency control mode. Perhaps because there's nothing for it to vary, when the voltage gets close faster it tries to ramp down the non-extant AC coupled SCCs, which does nothing, so it basically drops to minimum as if a switch was flipped. Sure, a brand new one shouldn't be able to do this, but I've learned to trust very little when it comes to complex electronics.

Any way to perform a full factory reset to standard defaults without a controller panel?

A full reset may help. I found this article on how to do it

Resetting the Magnum Inverter

Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away. After spending five hours to resolve a problem that only required the press of a button. Such is the state of the technology within our coaches. Docum…

rvcastaways.com

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Full reset was step 1.

 

[TorC]

Good that a full reset was tried. I don't see that it should be possible for the process to set up a default in just that unit that defaults on reset to frequency shift mode, but the symptoms described still seem to fit that rather well. A pity there's no one around you could borrow a display/controller from to check what it thinks it sees. Maybe if that direct Magnum contact can be gotten hold of he could send one to try. Sending it back if the unit does end up RMAd shouldn't add anything, so a low cost means for them to maybe avoid shipping an inverter around.

Keep us posted if you get anywhere with it.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

Sounds like neighbor has a complex electrical system. Assuming a good problem definition now, perhaps this would get the necessary baseline:

- isolate the magnum from external influences (have only magnum, battery-bank, test load)
- run it for 24-hr period, logging the results

If it can hold frequency to specs during test period, then it's very likely an external to the magnum issue. You can vary the test load (to get better stress), as long as it is under controlled test conditions.

If you do get good test results, then you can start to add things back in, and see where problem resumes.

If it can't hold frequency under test conditions, this is good ammunition with Magnum support folks.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Sounds like neighbor has a complex electrical system.

No more complex than a system with a critical loads panel that is only in use a few hours a week.

Assuming a good problem definition now, perhaps this would get the necessary baseline:

- isolate the magnum from external influences (have only magnum, battery-bank, test load)
- run it for 24-hr period, logging the results

The above is essentially the case for all days that the well pump is not run. The pump inverter is off and has no influence on the system on non-pumping days.

The test load is the house, which typically uses only 6-9kWh/day. Taking the house offline isn't going to happen unless Magnum insists. The argument is that there was a Trace inverter in place prior to the Magnum, and this issue never occurred.

If it can hold frequency to specs during test period, then it's very likely an external to the magnum issue. You can vary the test load (to get better stress), as long as it is under controlled test conditions.

If you do get good test results, then you can start to add things back in, and see where problem resumes.

If it can't hold frequency under test conditions, this is good ammunition with Magnum support folks.

Again, Magnum has already confirmed this appears to be an inverter issue, and it needs to be escalated to Engineering.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

He also has a Sigineer 24V/6kW on the same bank for the well pump. They aren't connected in any other way. He didn't have sufficient PV to power that pump, but he can offset about 70% of it. When he'd run the pump for about an hour, it would draw the battery down even at peak PV and delay the time the battery hit absorption voltage (2X Outback FM-80), and sometimes 58.3Hz wouldn't happen. On other days when the pump wasn't ran, the Magnum would drop to 58.3Hz at the approximate time the battery hit absorption voltage and would stay at 58.3Hz for about 6-8 hours.

He's since installed a smaller pump (2hp) and enough PV to fully power the pump AND charge batteries, I don't know if it's still happening on pump days, and he doesn't know off the top of his head, so he's going to document it the next time he pumps (typically only 1-2 days/week). He expects it is because resetting clocks is a daily event.



I trust a kill-a-watt to report a frequency value. He actually has two. One in the pump house with the inverter and one in the kitchen. They are always in agreement. He's also confirmed it with a Klein CL800. I've confirmed it with my Fluke 116.



Microwave clock (2 year old Panasonic Inverter microwave). Oven clock. Bose clock radio - pretty much all the clocks in the kitchen.



Nothing else is affected. I get that it's not a big deal from that regard, but the inverter is operating outside of published specification for an unknown reason creating a noteworthy daily nuisance. Generally speaking, when I find something that is running outside of specification, I am not willing to consider that it is as reliable as it should be. This odd behavior may be indicative of a premature failure.

is your friends unit a PAE? if so they offer frequency shifting for when it is used in a grid assist setup it could be that the inverters circuits are sensing a reason to frequency shift. if thats the case it's broken (somewhere) if it frequency shifts when it is not hooked up to the grid but I would look at the card that controls that system.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

is your friends unit a PAE? if so they offer frequency shifting for when it is used in a grid assist setup it could be that the inverters circuits are sensing a reason to frequency shift. if thats the case it's broken (somewhere) if it frequency shifts when it is not hooked up to the grid but I would look at the card that controls that system.

Yep. @TorC already brought this possibility up, and after a conversation with my neighbor today, I suspect it's the culprit. The unit does NOT indicate "AC Coupling" on the display as it should when frequency shifting, but it reads "inverting" at all times. Confirmed that today.

The unit is currently still on the defaults for the battery config following the reset. According to my neighbor, following the reset, it became much more common, i.e., there have not been any days where it didn't drop to 58.3Hz.

His FM-80 are charging to a voltage higher than the PAE settings, made even worse by temp comp. Additionally, his battery has atypically high absorption and float voltages (12S 1000Ah 2V cells akin to forklift batteries). With temp comp, he's seeing in excess of 30V.

We're going to go through all the settings for the PAE to ensure AC coupling isn't somehow enabled and set all charge voltages as close to the equalization voltage as we can and see what happens.

 

[Pyrofx]

Replacement 4448 on it's way from magnum. Should be here friday.

Let's see if things start rolling

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Replacement 4448 on it's way from magnum. Should be here friday.

Let's see if things start rolling

good for you! hope they unscrew themselves. I have three of their inverters myself... only problems i had were self initiated by not taking lightening strikes seriously.

 

[Halfcrazy]

Stand alone inverter completely off grid.



N/A - no frequency shifting for grid tie or AC coupling.



That's been discussed with Magnum. Essentially, he finally gets in touch with someone, they say, "that's really weird, I'm going to have to get with Engineering," and then he never hears back.



Kill-a-watt plugged in 24/7 to at least monitor it real time, and he loses 7-8 minutes per day on all clocks that are frequency dependent.



Rural area. Hard to find folks with full sets of teeth, let alone one with an EE.



I've been down this road, and I've personally invested several hours of diagnostic/research time over several months. This thing exhibited this behavior from day 1.



The only "grid" present is the one formed by the Magnum itself. The nearest power pole is two 40 acre parcels away.



Nope.

It keeps coming down to there being no external reason this is happening. The vendor has no clue, and the first line folks at Magnum have no clue and claim to escalate it, but it just dies.

When I worked at Magnum the "Custom" battery setting caused frequency shift to happen automatically any time the battery exceeded the target of the inverter. Try turning the inverters targets up 3 or 4 tenths above the charge controller and see if it helps. My gut tells me this is the frequency shift algorythm they have for controlling the micro inverters. My gut also tells me no one works at Magnum anymore that remembers that feature. If you want to email me Ryan@midnitesolar.com I will loop in the head of tech support at Magnum (Well he used to be, he now is our project manager)

 

[sunshine_eggo]

When I worked at Magnum the "Custom" battery setting caused frequency shift to happen automatically any time the battery exceeded the target of the inverter. Try turning the inverters targets up 3 or 4 tenths above the charge controller and see if it helps. My gut tells me this is the frequency shift algorythm they have for controlling the micro inverters. My gut also tells me no one works at Magnum anymore that remembers that feature. If you want to email me Ryan@midnitesolar.com I will loop in the head of tech support at Magnum (Well he used to be, he now is our project manager)

That's the plan. It's currently set to whatever the reset defaults are.

Going to set all voltages close to the equalization voltage to see if that resolves it.

Appreciate the offer. Much thanks. Will reach out if this doesn't resolve it.

 

[Halfcrazy]

That's the plan. It's currently set to whatever the reset defaults are.

Going to set all voltages close to the equalization voltage to see if that resolves it.

Appreciate the offer. Much thanks. Will reach out if this doesn't resolve it.

Yes the older software didnt say anything about ac coupling

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Yes the older software didnt say anything about ac coupling

Yeah. The first manual I downloaded didn't refer to it at all. Only the one with "Sensata" on it.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Went through the ME-ARC50 settings with my neighbor tonight.

The reset did NOT restore defaults. It was set to CUSTOM battery type set set the voltages his FLA requires. It is my understanding that CUSTOM is required to enable frequency shifting (per the manual and per @Halfcrazy ).

We have set it to AGM2 as those voltages are close enough for his battery, and I'm hopeful he won't see 58.3Hz tomorrow.

If he does, we'll go back to CUSTOM and set all voltages as high as possible, but 32V max. His FM-80 shouldn't get much over 30V, and frequency shifting should not occur.

Fingers crossed.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Went through the ME-ARC50 settings with my neighbor tonight.

The reset did NOT restore defaults. It was set to CUSTOM battery type set set the voltages his FLA requires. It is my understanding that CUSTOM is required to enable frequency shifting (per the manual and per @Halfcrazy ).

We have set it to AGM2 as those voltages are close enough for his battery, and I'm hopeful he won't see 58.3Hz tomorrow.

If he does, we'll go back to CUSTOM and set all voltages as high as possible, but 32V max. His FM-80 shouldn't get much over 30V, and frequency shifting should not occur.

Fingers crossed.

Conditions were a bit sketchy with snow and clouds, but the sun finally peaked out long enough to get some good charging. @ 30V indicated on his Trimetric with the battery programmed to AGM2 (29.0V absorption), there was NO shift to 58.3Hz, and it hasn't varied from 59.9-60.0Hz.

It looks like the CUSTOM battery setting coupled with temp comp on the FM-80s was the culprit. Given that not all manufacturers use the same voltages, seems kinda silly that CUSTOM battery type is the only setting to establish this behavior.

It's also concerning that the remote never displayed "AC Coupling" when frequency shift occurred per the manual. That would have been a big enough clue for me, but it never budged from "Inverting." The reset, which behaved as described in the manual, did not restore the defaults per the tech guy. After going through the remote, there is a "restore factory defaults" option, and I should have tried that as well.

The issue appears to be fixed. Generator charging is pretty rare, so not charging to an optimal voltage is a good trade-off given the alternative.

Thanks again to @TorC for planting the seed and the additional reinforcement by @Daddy Tanuki and @Halfcrazy.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Conditions were a bit sketchy with snow and clouds, but the sun finally peaked out long enough to get some good charging. @ 30V indicated on his Trimetric with the battery programmed to AGM2 (29.0V absorption), there was NO shift to 58.3Hz, and it hasn't varied from 59.9-60.0Hz.

It looks like the CUSTOM battery setting coupled with temp comp on the FM-80s was the culprit. Given that not all manufacturers use the same voltages, seems kinda silly that CUSTOM battery type is the only setting to establish this behavior.

It's also concerning that the remote never displayed "AC Coupling" when frequency shift occurred per the manual. That would have been a big enough clue for me, but it never budged from "Inverting." The reset, which behaved as described in the manual, did not restore the defaults per the tech guy. After going through the remote, there is a "restore factory defaults" option, and I should have tried that as well.

The issue appears to be fixed. Generator charging is pretty rare, so not charging to an optimal voltage is a good trade-off given the alternative.

Thanks again to @TorC for planting the seed and the additional reinforcement by @Daddy Tanuki and @Halfcrazy.

Part of it from what i remember when i was looking at it was that it would frequency shift to prevent overcharging also. thats why it might not have showed it ac coupled, but it was following the protocols as if it was due to battery charging voltages. At the time i had a 6k grid tie solar inverter that I got used with my panels. It was a nice unit made by sharp so I wanted to try and use the magnum as the input line for the gridtie and get a free extra 6k of inverting. after pouring over the manuals I gave it up as I am not knowledgeable enough to be playing at that level. i was worried that if i overproduced I could fry the magnum so gave it up as a bad idea and sold the inverter separately

 

[WindWizard]

Part of it from what i remember when i was looking at it was that it would frequency shift to prevent overcharging also. thats why it might not have showed it ac coupled, but it was following the protocols as if it was due to battery charging voltages. At the time i had a 6k grid tie solar inverter that I got used with my panels. It was a nice unit made by sharp so I wanted to try and use the magnum as the input line for the gridtie and get a free extra 6k of inverting. after pouring over the manuals I gave it up as I am not knowledgeable enough to be playing at that level. i was worried that if i overproduced I could fry the magnum so gave it up as a bad idea and sold the inverter separately

I am glad that you have your frequency shift issue resolved. Apparently, the Magnum documentation is lacking a bit.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I am glad that you have your frequency shift issue resolved. Apparently, the Magnum documentation is lacking a bit.

It also doesn't help that the first link I get in search results is to an older version of the manual.

2nd day in a row with no issues. He's tickled.