Install and Operation of the SUNGOLD 10KW 48V SPLIT PHASE SOLAR INVERTER

[42OhmsPA]

1st battery
100% SOC
54.63V
cell voltages 3407mv to 3418mv

3rd battery
97.12% SOC
54.64V
cell voltages 3411mv to 3415mv (tighter interval)



Whatever it does, the situation has improved since my previous post 90 minutes ago.
#3 was at 92% SOC and now it's 97%.

#2,#4,#5 are all showing 100% as well.


I am so old now, almost grown-up. And know myself. I already spend too much time looking at these numbers. If I install anything on a PC, I won't get anything done any more. As long as things work, no tools or assistants for me, thank you.



However, I had a first instance of flickering LED ceiling lights when a blow dryer was turned on- on the same circuit. After about 6 seconds, the flickering stopped, blower still working.

They are darn close to full.

That's interesting with the flicker.

I hope everything keeps working well for you.

 

[Kenny_]

So today I accidentally discovered where the SGP rack batteries show the SOC. I was not looking for it, thinking it will just be another nuisance to have that level of knowledge.. this is basically the reason why I did not get SA yet.

And sure, now I cannot stop thinking about the SOC numbers.

Battery #1 was purchased ~3 weeks after batteries #2-#5.

SOC / Cycle count
100% 2 (newer battery, also this is the master)
100% 5
92.11% 4
100% 4
100% 3 (how come this has one less cycle?)

It's overcast weather right now. Batteries 1,2,4,5 get about 1A and battery 3 gets 2A. I would have thought best to give 0A to the full ones and 6A to #3 but, there is probably a reason.

Yeah weird how it allocates the current....

 

[Kenny_]

Just got the initial billing totals for December.... appears that I saved about 50% again on my electric portion of the Xcel bill....will know more once the detailed bill is available.

Oh and Xcel sent out an email saying HIGHER NATURAL GAS PRICES will cause an increase in bills in coming months. Bastards!
I'd love to get entirely off the grid but it's not likely to happen any time soon. At least I'm doing what I can....

 

[Kenny_]

Because of the weather here (currently -6 feels like -22 and light snow) I'm topping off my batteries from utility....just in case of power outage.

 

[Kenny_]

Okay so due to cold weather I've been on grid and charging up my batteries all are at 100% SOC at the moment except of course Battery #5.

Here's my concern since @42OhmsPA says full should be 54.4 V for the Pack and 3.4 V per cell... none of these 100%'ers are at those voltages
they are showing 53.1 per pack/battery and about 3.32 or 3.318....3.315 even per cell is this perhaps because they are in what is called 'float' and still yet to reach max nominal voltage of 3.4 / 54.4?

here's the SA pic:

 

[Kenny_]

...or is something whacked with my settings (I know, I know, not in USER MODE)....

I just can't help getting this feeling that the Inverter and the BMS are fighting over control....

 

[42OhmsPA]

What's the chart look like in SA for battery voltage, did it get up above 54 and fall?
Did charge current taper off as well?

 

[Kenny_]

Current definitely tapers/tapered off as the as it approaches 100%... currently about 60w flowing into each battery/pack...

Looks like battery in SA (total/average ??) got up to 53.7...which actually matches up to Param #35 ... Battery full recharge voltage point which is currently set to 53.6... so that makes sense (based on params)....

 

[Kenny_]

See, I am eventually (despite my decrepid advanced mortal brain with aging white cells) learning something about this crazy Solar Power Battery Stuff!.

Thanks to All of You!!

 

[Kenny_]

I'm wondering if maybe that 53.6 might should not be increased to ?? 54.4?

 

[Crowz]

I'm wondering if maybe that 53.6 might should not be increased to ?? 54.4?

53 range is for people like me that charge up the batteries and use them in case of a power outage.

People like you that discharge daily should charge into the 54's.

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

which actually matches up to Param #35 ... Battery full recharge voltage point which is currently set to 53.6... so that makes sense (based on params)....

Is that a typo? From the PDF:

People like you that discharge daily should charge into the 54's.

I am also one of those daily (battery) discharge people. That's why I responded to this.

 

[CaliSunHarvester]

On another note, the SGP AIO unit reports the SOC of the 1st battery (Master battery)

My batteries this morning were
#1 76%
#2 80%
#3 82%
#4 86%
#5 87%

And the AIO says that my bank's SOC is 76%!

Yes, I do have a bus bar, sort of. I use this one:

 

[marionw]

The default for Menu Item 35 is 52.0 until you select L16 for the battery type then it changes to 52.8 which is still under a fully charged battery.
While charging my SGP batteries I have to set the EG4 ChargeInverter voltage to at least 55 to get a completely fully charged battery.
When the BMS is connected it will set Menu Items 9 and 11 to 57.6

The BMS parameter setting for a "Pack Full Charge" is 56 volts:



EG4 set to 55 volts and charging the batteries:

 

[Kenny_]

@marionw yes, but if you are working with closed loop comms the inverter is 'overriding' the BMS and slowing the current/charging etc based on its settings... unless I'm missing something.... and this is what I mean about the Inverter and BMS arguing over who decides...

I'm moving more and more (at least mentally) toward going User/Open loop....

 

[marionw]

Actually menu items 9 and 11 are from the BMS and tell the inverter what voltages to use to charge the batteries. That and reporting the actual SOC are what happen in a "closed loop". Some inverter actions are driven by the actual SOC as reported by the BMS, the inverter has no way to know the actual SOC except when the BMS is reporting it. The other settings related to the batteries deal with when the inverter indicates an alarm condition, when the inverter clears an alarm condition and when the inverter will turn off the AC output. For example menu items 58 thru 62 are driven by the SOC as reported by the BMS. Any setting dealing with battery voltage (other than charging voltage) are what the inverter is measuring at it's battery terminals.

The inverter manual is not clear at all as to what each setting actually does and that is why I keep asking SGP questions. I would love to have a peek at the firmware source code. In addtion it might be worthwhile to start a new thread and ask anyone with an SRNE 10kw AIO (since the SGP 10kw is a clone) if they have questions or issues with their inverter. In addition the SGP batteries appear to be clones of the SOK battery. Does anyone have issues with the SOK batteries? These could be other avenues to pursue.

Here is some interesting reading on inverter and BMS communications.

Closed Loopm Comms

 

[Kenny_]

Well if they are being 'set by the BMS' then Why is it not charging to that value instead of stopping far short?

My batteries 1-4 all are registering as full at 100% SOC yet the voltage is only 53.x volts (53 at the moment still 100% SOC)

While battery 5 is reading 91% SOC and also at 53 volts.

None of them every reached 54.4 much less 56 (or 57.6 OVP value) as in the Battery / BMS Parameters (which I'm seeing as well via the PBMS SOK etc.

on and P.S. my 9 and 11 values are 56.4 not 57.6 as are yours mentioned above.

 

[marionw]

What is the source of power for charging, the solar panels or grid or both. Take a look at Menu item 6 and 7. I read menu item 6 where it references "when solar is not available" to mean not charging from the grid if even a minuscule amount of solar us available. In addition is there is enough solar to handle the AC load and then the charging. If menu item 6 is set at it's default of 60 amps, that is 60 amps total for 5 batteries which equals 12 amps per battery, might not be enough. At 12 amps per battery it would take a long time to charge from an event 60% SOC.

The only way I can see for you to know what is really happening is to monitor the batteries while they are supposed to be charging with the PbmsTools software. The Inverter should charge the batteries using the inverter max charge current or voltage setting, whichever limit is reached first. The Inverter I hope, would attempt to charge the batteries at 57.6 volts (as set by the BMS) unless this voltage causes the inverter to exceed the max charging current in which case it would lower the voltage to achieve the but not exceed the max charge current. If you have a clamp on ampmeter measure the current on the positive cable where it connects to the battery stack and then divide that by 5, that is what each battery (all connections being equal) is being charged with. Low amps means low charge rates. Right now both my batteries are at 55 volts, one at 100 and the other at 99 SOC and the are still charging. I am going to increase tthe ChargeInverter voltage to 56.0 (still less than the 57.6 the BMS says to use) just to get over the hump while i monitor them.

As I was finishing typing both batteries stopped charging and are at 100 SOC which they were at while still charging. The BMS stopped the charging. One is at 55.090 and the other at 54.975

 

[marionw]

Well if they are being 'set by the BMS' then Why is it not charging to that value instead of stopping far short?

My batteries 1-4 all are registering as full at 100% SOC yet the voltage is only 53.x volts (53 at the moment still 100% SOC)

While battery 5 is reading 91% SOC and also at 53 volts.

None of them every reached 54.4 much less 56 (or 57.6 OVP value) as in the Battery / BMS Parameters (which I'm seeing as well via the PBMS SOK etc.

on and P.S. my 9 and 11 values are 56.4 not 57.6 as are yours mentioned above.

Probably the difference between my EG4's and the two SGP's. I have the EG4 hub connected to the Inverter, I guess the EG4 batteries want a little more charging voltage. The charge profiles are slightly different between SGP and EG4 batteries

 

[Crowz]

Well if they are being 'set by the BMS' then Why is it not charging to that value instead of stopping far short?

My batteries 1-4 all are registering as full at 100% SOC yet the voltage is only 53.x volts (53 at the moment still 100% SOC)

While battery 5 is reading 91% SOC and also at 53 volts.

None of them every reached 54.4 much less 56 (or 57.6 OVP value) as in the Battery / BMS Parameters (which I'm seeing as well via the PBMS SOK etc.

on and P.S. my 9 and 11 values are 56.4 not 57.6 as are yours mentioned above.

A bms's soc to me is useless. I have bms's in my batteries and they will show different charge levels with different voltages all the time.

A shunt to me is the only real way to know soc.

 

[marionw]

That is true, I have a Victron shut installed and when properly calibrated is a very accurate indication. That is why I have to move my EG4 ChargeInverter to the Inverter side of the shut so it can measure the ChargeInverts contributions to battery charging, right now it is connected to the bus bars in the rack, none of it's amps flow thru the shunt. I have a have just recently written the software so I can talks to the shunt. I am developing my own software as I am not completely happy with Solar Assistant. SA does not report any inverter or battery alarm conditions (or at least does not display them) nor does it report when it loses communications with a battery, just keeps displaying whatever it had before loss of comms. I want audible and visual alarms as well as text or emails. I do not want to use some third party website/service which possibly means they have access to my system via the wifi dongle. I want to be able to see actual cell voltages, whether the batteries are charging or discharging and the state of the Charging as Discharging MOSFETS. If the inverter is going to shut off the AC output because of some abnormal condition I would like to know before losing power.

 

[Kenny_]

and another thing I'm being an idiot about is running my space heaters during the polar vortex from the panels....that's free and I'm paying through the nose for natural gas! .... but also don't want to drain my batteries too far... I've only got a couple of small space heaters, but they can help a lot if I've got enough sun... which I do right not despite being 1 F at 2:00 in the afternoon. Bright blue skies but cold as a witch's tit!

 

[marionw]

Cold is great for panels, they love cold.

 

[Kenny_]

and another thing I'm being an idiot about is running my space heaters during the polar vortex from the panels....that's free and I'm paying through the nose for natural gas! .... but also don't want to drain my batteries too far... I've only got a couple of small space heaters, but they can help a lot if I've got enough sun... which I do right not despite being 1 F at 2:00 in the afternoon. Bright blue skies but cold as a witch's tit!

**Stop Wasting Free Solar Power!!** ?‍?

 

[Kenny_]

**Stop Wasting Free Solar Power!!** ?‍?

I'm learning/realizing these little insights that make a huge difference.... first it was just getting an understanding of how much power the home uses on a day/month/hourly allocation ... then it was how much different appliances, devices, rooms use, which circuits in the house are 'critical', which ones use the most, which ones can be ignored or not used etc... then things about this system, first I thought Solar Assistant was reporting the 'Available Power' from the solar panels until I realized that it can only report what is being Drawn/Used and that I can add appliances, devices, batteries to use ALL THE AVAILABLE Power. Also just as now realizing I can move and run those Space Heaters from the "Live" Solar power that is available and not pull from batteries or the grid and in essence replace the heat that would have to be generated from the Natural Gas Furnace.

Now this last one I sort of knew because when I went into this with the Ecoflow and began thinking about installing a Heat Pump Furnace and Hot Water heater I was thinking in those terms of Replacing the Natural Gas ... somehow in the process over the last three months I got off track a bit with inverter and battery issues and alarms and that damn Cindy Lou whispering in my ear! Now my foggy vision begins to clear.... BUY MORE SPACE HEATERS FOR WINTER AND RUN THEM FROM LIVE SOLAR!

More insights to follow I'm sure....