LIFEPOWER4 and EG4LL 48v packs work with anything we've tried so far

[SignatureSolarJames]

Folks, rumors are here and there of incompatibility with one inverter or another, here are the brands we have tried fully so far:

-SolArk
-Growatt
-MPP solar/Rich Solar
-Schhneider Conext, All Models
-Outback Radian, FXR, (the 3524 requires 3 packs though, most 24v needs at least 2 packs)
-Victron MultiPlus
-Magnum 24v and 48v all models

The 48v packs put out 5000w DC, the 24v 2500w DC, always take your inverter, divide by efficiency and get enough packs to output that wattage
(XW Pro 6800/.91% =7447 = 2 packs minimum) (Magnum 4024= 4395W DC, 2 packs minimum)

This not a discussion thread, just drop a name of a model you have trouble with and message us direct, if you find a unit that we cannot start along these lines after bench testing in our shop we will make sure to send you a neat reward and share our mutual findings.

Regardless of other comments here there will not be an inverter on this forum that we cannot provide a successful test video for unless notated here (like the conditional Outback 3524 compatibility)

Signature Solar is dedicated to ensuring that EG4 Electronics products are operational with your system.​

We are fully confident of compatibility with the listed inverters if your battery fails to start any of the inverters listed below, Signature Solar will examine the wiring info and offer a full refund and return shipping on your purchased battery. Please email compatibility@eg4electronics.com with the subject "Return Request" for us to review.​

If your inverter is not listed below, Please email compatibility@eg4electronics.com with the subject "Inverter Compatibility Request" for us to review.​

Our demo page for compatibility is: https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-battery-inverter-compatibility/

 

[Mr-Sandman]

No Rumor, it's true the EG4 LifePower4 has confirmed issues starting inverters that power up when DC power is applied "no on/off switch".

@Koldsimer posted videos of the EG4 LifePower4 NOT starting a Schneider XW Pro 6848. SAME EXACT setup was started on lead acid, another lithium brand, and even an EG4 LL. There's something wrong in the LifePower4's.... Better get them figured out.

SS has claimed to not be able to reproduce this issue yet, several have reported same issue.

I do NOT recommend the EG4 LifePower4 batteries.

 

[robby]

This not a discussion thread, just drop a name of a model you have trouble with and message us direct, if you find a unit that we cannot start along these lines after bench testing in our shop we will make sure to send you a neat reward and share our mutual findings.

Lets Just Clarify, it is not a rumor!
This thread is a deflection from a 44 Page long thread showing that at least 5 Inverter Models will sometimes not start with the EG4 Lifepower battery.
You can Read it here :EG4 LifePower won't Start Inverter

To the owner of SS:
Just to Clarify, if someone bought an EG4 and it does not start their Inverter they should report it to you and if it starts your same model inverter does that mean they are out of luck in getting a warranty return or will you honor the warranty if they upload a video of it not starting their Inverter?

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

No Rumor, it's true the EG4 LifePower4 has confirmed issues starting inverters that power up when DC power is applied "no on/off switch".

@Koldsimer posted videos of the EG4 LifePower4 NOT starting a Schneider XW Pro 6848. SAME EXACT setup was started on lead acid, another lithium brand, and even an EG4 LL. There's something wrong in the LifePower4's.... Better get them figured out.

SS has claimed to not be able to reproduce this issue yet, several have reported same issue.

I do NOT recommend the EG4 LifePower4 batteries.

Actually we got @Koldsimer's exact batteries and connected it to a new XW, posted a video on threads you have seen and you refuse to acknowledge this. we are a components supplier with a component warranty, If my XW6848PRO works with it with 2 packs from the same 4 pack bank and 2awg cables then scientifically speaking there is an onsite issue.

This is the epitome of do-it-for-me culture, installer service costs at parts prices, everyone can try it once but long term it will hurt people on cost who take responsibility for their installs.

Anyone that claims any issue occurs is welcome to post on this chat the inverter and a video of the issue.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Just to Clarify, if someone bought an EG4 and it does not start their Inverter they should report it to you and if it starts your same model inverter does that mean they are out of luck in getting a warranty return or will you honor the warranty if they upload a video of it not starting their Inverter?

Lifepower4 batteries start every inverter per wattage specs, any video of a failure will be reviewed and responded to; we have the exact packs and inverters here and will replicate the problem. to be hyper-scientific we may swap the battery units in order to control against pack-specific anomalies (none known) like we did with Koldsimer, if we cannot replicate under any circumstances and all scenarios work no matter how hard we try to break the system then we would have to assume the site or the inverter on site is faulty or abnormal.

The truth is that no lifepower4 will fail to work with our brand new xw6848 pro and we are supplying a large number of professional schneider xw installers without issue. Koldsimer is the only schneider 48v issue ever heard of.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

If my XW6848PRO works with it with 2 packs from the same 4 pack bank and 2awg cables then scientifically speaking there is an onsite issue.

@Signature Solar Can you explain why (3) different brands of batteries started @Koldsimer XW Pro 6848 just fine, INCLUDING your own EG4 LL battery, but the LifePower4 wouldn't?
Does that not tell you something is up with the LifePower4 battery?
You keep jumping up and down saying yours works fine on the bench, great, but that isn't conclusive, you have multiple people reporting in the field issues and then PROVING it with plugging a different battery in and it working.

Anyone that claims any issue occurs is welcome to post on this chat the inverter and a video of the issue.

@Koldsimer has posted the videos of them not working. I guess he doesn't count?

 

[Horsefly]

If my XW6848PRO works with it with 2 packs from the same 4 pack bank and 2awg cables then scientifically speaking there is an onsite issue.

And when that exact same on-site configuration starts fine with virtually any other battery (including a different model from SS) you would still say there is no issue with the only batteries that don't start the inverter?

Seems like Signature Solar cycles between saying that there is an issue and there isn't.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

false insinuations of other schneider issues are being made here

we have koldsimer's batteries, we showed they work with the xw6848 pro no mattery how hard you starve it with cables and fewer packs. we are not responsible for his site, there are all kinds of issues that can occur out of a controlled test

 

[Horsefly]

false insinuations of other schneider issues are being made here

we have koldsimer's batteries, we showed they work with the xw6848 pro no mattery how hard you starve it with cables and fewer packs. we are not responsible for his site, there are all kinds of issues that can occur out of a controlled test

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

Maybe he missed it.

@Signature Solar Can you explain why (3) different brands of batteries started @Koldsimer XW Pro 6848 just fine, INCLUDING your own EG4 LL battery, but the LifePower4 wouldn't?

 

[Mr-Sandman]

OR Maybe all that matters is it works on his inverter, customer inverters do not count!

 

[SparkyJJO]

I get the struggle.

Customer has the inverter that works with every battery except that one.

SS tests that exact battery on the same equipment model (and others) and the battery works fine.

Where, exactly, is the fault?

Did the customer have a communication cable hooked up? Was it talking correctly? Try it in "dumb" mode to rule it out? I assume the customer went through all the troubleshooting of that sort with SS.

If it were me, I'd swap the battery out in a goodwill gesture. And then, if it STILL doesn't work, then it has to be an issue on the customer's setup end because it has been tested and verified that those batteries and those inverters will work with each other. Having one that is wonk can happen. Two in a row? Probably not, it is more likely the other equipment has a quirk.

Before anyone rages on me on that thing - I have done a LOT of troubleshooting of various equipment over the years. Sometimes, you do run into instances where something SHOULD work, and it works with everything else, but for some reason, one particular piece just won't work with another in that particular setup. Why? Who knows. Electronics can be weird sometimes.

I have no dog in the fight, just offering my 2 cents.

 

[Horsefly]

I get the struggle.

Customer has the inverter that works with every battery except that one.

SS tests that exact battery on the same equipment model (and others) and the battery works fine.

Where, exactly, is the fault?

Did the customer have a communication cable hooked up? Was it talking correctly? Try it in "dumb" mode to rule it out? I assume the customer went through all the troubleshooting of that sort with SS.

If it were me, I'd swap the battery out in a goodwill gesture. And then, if it STILL doesn't work, then it has to be an issue on the customer's setup end because it has been tested and verified that those batteries and those inverters will work with each other. Having one that is wonk can happen. Two in a row? Probably not, it is more likely the other equipment has a quirk.

Before anyone rages on me on that thing - I have done a LOT of troubleshooting of various equipment over the years. Sometimes, you do run into instances where something SHOULD work, and it works with everything else, but for some reason, one particular piece just won't work with another in that particular setup. Why? Who knows. Electronics can be weird sometimes.

I have no dog in the fight, just offering my 2 cents.

@SparkyJJO - You've missed most of the movie here. No fault of yours, as it was in the other thread.

As far as I can tell, @Koldsimer tried just about everything possible - beyond what Signature Solar suggested - to get it to work.

Signature Solar did swap the batteries out as a goodwill gesture. There was some disagreement if they tried to give him used batteries, but it worked out in the end. However, the problem goes beyond that one install, and Signature hasn't done themselves any favors by how they continue to characterize the situation.

What remains is three issues:

1. In this particular case, @Koldsimer and his installation are very close to Signature Solar's facility, and he offered over and over to have them come out and look at his install. They refused.
2. Because they didn't go out and look at the install, they actually have no idea about it. Periodically Signature Solar posts something blaming @Koldsimer, and then they back off of that. The cycle repeats.
3. @Koldsimer's is not the only one with an issue. Signature's only approach has been to "prove" that they can make it work with whatever inverter they try.

What this leaves many of us with is at the very least an uneasy feeling about the Lifepower4 batteries, and maybe about Signature Solar in general. I don't think there is much chance I would buy from them right now, with the current evidence of both the issues with the battery and how Signature Solar seems to respond.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

I'd like to clarify: There is an issue at SPECIFIC CUSTOMER SITES when using the LifePower4 battery. Those issues cannot be duplicated using our on bench control (literally installed the batteries he returned with our Schneider), or on the thousands of installs that large scale installers who work with our batteries and Schneiders (or any other model inverter for that fact). We totally get that his inverter worked with some other batteries, and not ours. The fact remains - THERE ARE TOO MANY VARIABLES. A customer who opts for DIY pricing on parts and has issues is going to happen. We are still investigating issues and testing, but at this point, still no ability to duplicate. That being said, as James said, we will review anyone who states they have issues and take action as necessary. This will likely involve some troubleshooting steps, but (as in Koldsimers case) may lead to replacing the units or other actions taken to rectify the issue. I totally get that it took some time to resolve this initial issue with Koldsimer. There were a lot of hoops to jump through (holidays, shipping delays, you name it). We will 100% stand behind our warranty, and will 100% take care of customers.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

What remains is three issues:

1. In this particular case, @Koldsimer and his installation are very close to Signature Solar's facility, and he offered over and over to have them come out and look at his install. They refused.
2. Because they didn't go out and look at the install, they actually have no idea about it. Periodically Signature Solar posts something blaming @Koldsimer, and then they back off of that. The cycle repeats.
3. @Koldsimer's is not the only one with an issue. Signature's only approach has been to "prove" that they can make it work with whatever inverter they try.

What this leaves many of us with is at the very least an uneasy feeling about the Lifepower4 batteries, and maybe about Signature Solar in general. I don't think there is much chance I would buy from them right now, with the current evidence of both the issues with the battery and how Signature Solar seems to respond.

1. We are a solar parts supplier, not an installer. We carry necessary legal documents and insurance for this type of business. We cannot go on site to a customers location and monitor or assist in an install without violating these business characteristics, taking on additional liability, or possibly losing that status. I don't go to an auto parts store, buy a part, and call the parts store to send an employee to my house when it doesn't work. I get he is close - but that doesn't change the type of business we are classified as or the legal repercussions we may assume if we did.
2. We've stated multiple times - there is 100% something specific about his install or unit that doesn't agree with our batteries. If it was a case of the Schneider itself not working, it would be easily duplicated. We have hundreds of case studies with this model where it is working flawlessly. We work with several large scale installers, some specifically only using Schneiders, and there has been 1 reported case of an issue like this. We have done tons of research and troubleshooting to fix the issue, up to bringing the batteries back and giving him upgraded models. The returned batteries worked first try, each individually, on a brand new Schneider unit that we made no changes to or installed extra parts. In Koldsimers videos, there is some additional parts installed on the inverter itself and likely elsewhere in the system. We cannot (nor does it make sense for us to) test our battery with EVERY possible configuration a DIYer can come up with.
3. You are right, there have been about 10 people who have this issue. I've invited each of them to reach out to me directly multiple times and we can troubleshoot or go from there. In some cases that Koldsimer linked, it's a completely different battery that doesn't even have a pre-charge resistor (the waterproof unit), from a different manufacturer - someone who read the original post, and thought it applied to them. In reality, they just need to pre-charge their system like normal.

Regarding your final paragraph, there are tons of posts on this forum where people run into issues or have systems that don't work (in fact there is an entire section devoted to this). And in 99% of them, the supplier doesn't even show up to help. Yes, you can be upset with some of the replies we have had, and you can chew me out in the comments - but the fact remains that I am here and willing to be chewed out on this forum which is a huge step towards working with people that most suppliers don't even take. The fact we are having this conversation on a public forum is a huge step forward from where you would get with other companies who don't even care to look at the forums at all - and that is where most of them choose to live.

 

[Langjan]

Folks, rumors are here and there of incompatibiliy with one inverter or another, here are the brands we have tried fully so far:

-SolArk
-Growatt
-MPP solar/Rich Solar
-Schhneider Conext, All Models
-Outback Radian, FXR, the 3524 requires 3 packs though, most 24v needs at least 2 packs
-Victron MultiPlus
-Magnum 24v and 48v all models

The 48v packs put out 5000w DC, the 24v 2500w DC, always take your inverter, divide by efficiency and get enough packs to output that wattage
(XW Pro 6800/.91% =7447 = 2 packs minimum) (Magnum 4024= 4395W DC, 2 packs minimum)

This not a discussion thread, just drop a name of a model you have trouble with and message us direct, if you find a unit that we cannot start along these lines after bench testing in our shop we will make sure to send you a neat reward and share our mutual findings.

Excuse my ignorance but the purpose of this thread is unclear. Is it intended to identify incompatible inverters and if so, incompatible with what?

 

[Mr-Sandman]

A customer who opts for DIY pricing on parts and has issues is going to happen.

Oh that's terrible. Don't defend your product issues/flaws with "you get what you pay for" stance.... I think your batteries are good quality and value, you just need to find and fix the flaw in the EG4 LifePower4 model.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

Here's the several month long, near 900 post thread on the Issue the SS has posted this thread about.

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/s...t-powering-up-with-eg4-lithium-battery.33250/

If you take the time to read thru the thread, you will then understand there is several people that is having trouble with the EG4 LifePower4 battery starting inverters. There seems to be an issue with that batteries pre-charge/BMS settings, that SS hasn't figured out yet. SS can't reproduce the issue in their test equipment.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Oh that's terrible. Don't defend your product issues/flaws with "you get what you pay for" stance.... I think your batteries are good quality and value, you just need to find and fix the flaw in the EG4 LifePower4 model.

This isn't a 'you get what you pay for' stance. It's a 'we have extensively tested our batteries and have no way of duplicating a custom install' stance. We have done everything we are allowed to by law to troubleshoot this issue, and we fixed it by giving the customer an upgraded battery. We did offer for him to bring his inverter for us to put on the bench, he declined (and no, contrary to his post we didn't expect him to leave it here - we offered to have him bring it in, hook it up on our test bench, and go from there). If there was a flaw in the battery itself, then why would the EXACT batteries Koldsimer returned work on the first try with a new, no customization, no changed settings inverter of the exact same brand and model. The only perceivable difference between our unit and his would be any customizations he has made on site.

 

[mnd]

@SparkyJJO - You've missed most of the movie here. No fault of yours, as it was in the other thread.

As far as I can tell, @Koldsimer tried just about everything possible - beyond what Signature Solar suggested - to get it to work.

That's not how I recall that thread going.

I've been following these threads because I was looking at (and have now purchased and am testing) an XW Pro. I'm using a different battery (DLG) and have thought a bit about what sort of testing and tools I'd need to do in order to characterize problems with a battery/inverter combination.

If I suspected an issue with pre-charging capacitors, I'd look to eliminate variables and connect the battery and inverter as directly as possible. I'd follow advice given in the other thread and use a pre-charge resistor (especially after looking at Will's video on the subject) or a long roll of romex.

I'd want to monitor voltage and amperage and while I've got a reasonable multimeter and clamp ammeter, I suspect I'd be ordering a DSO and a current shunt to capture details of inrush loads, inductive ringing etc.

If a professional was going to be troubleshooting these sorts of problem, this is the sort of equipment they'd start with at a minimum.

If I'm going to DIY, should I really expect to get away with nothing but a cheap multimeter?

If you're DIY'ing to "save money" you should be aware that it's a strategy that works right up until it doesn't.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

I get the struggle.

Customer has the inverter that works with every battery except that one.

SS tests that exact battery on the same equipment model (and others) and the battery works fine.

Where, exactly, is the fault?

Did the customer have a communication cable hooked up? Was it talking correctly? Try it in "dumb" mode to rule it out? I assume the customer went through all the troubleshooting of that sort with SS.

If it were me, I'd swap the battery out in a goodwill gesture. And then, if it STILL doesn't work, then it has to be an issue on the customer's setup end because it has been tested and verified that those batteries and those inverters will work with each other. Having one that is wonk can happen. Two in a row? Probably not, it is more likely the other equipment has a quirk.

Before anyone rages on me on that thing - I have done a LOT of troubleshooting of various equipment over the years. Sometimes, you do run into instances where something SHOULD work, and it works with everything else, but for some reason, one particular piece just won't work with another in that particular setup. Why? Who knows. Electronics can be weird sometimes.

I have no dog in the fight, just offering my 2 cents.

we did swap, no effect.

 

[Hedges]

Product parameters have a distribution. Timing, current draw, output capability.
Anything with a computer inside has the potential for different firmware and settings.

Ideally all relevant parameters would be specified, and battery capability (for all batteries passing tests) work with all inverters (passing tests.)
Motors have operating current and locked rotor amps they draw when starting. Voltage and wire resistance vary, but are kept within some range.
Circuit breakers have a trip current, but also allow certain overloads for certain periods of time.
A system can be designed that works.

The problem with this battery from SS and (a few instance of) various inverters is most likely related to the battery's built-in precharge circuit. Any battery without precharge circuit, the DIY use can use successfully with an external precharge circuit.

If problems are in fact just 0.05% of batteries sold, SS can easily address it by acknowledging in their listings that 0.05% of installations have compatibility issues, and assuring customer they will get a swift refund with shipping paid both ways. Just eliminate risk (and excessive 2-month delay) for your customers.

SS could also note which models do not have the precharge resistor, so a DIY customer can use that if he wants a more complicated solution that is under his control.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Excuse my ignorance but the purpose of this thread is unclear. Is it intended to identify incompatible inverters and if so, incompatible with what?

the EG4 Lifepower4, a handful of very active members are making claims of incompatibility but none of them have ever been replicated successfully

basically, an appeal to share any unknown problems so we can use the good old scientific method

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Product parameters have a distribution. Timing, current draw, output capability.
Anything with a computer inside has the potential for different firmware and settings.

Ideally all relevant parameters would be specified, and battery capability (for all batteries passing tests) work with all inverters (passing tests.)
Motors have operating current and locked rotor amps they draw when starting. Voltage and wire resistance vary, but are kept within some range.
Circuit breakers have a trip current, but also allow certain overloads for certain periods of time.
A system can be designed that works.

The problem with this battery from SS and (a few instance of) various inverters is most likely related to the battery's built-in precharge circuit. Any battery without precharge circuit, the DIY use can use successfully with an external precharge circuit.

If problems are in fact just 0.05% of batteries sold, SS can easily address it by acknowledging in their listings that 0.05% of installations have compatibility issues, and assuring customer they will get a swift refund with shipping paid both ways. Just eliminate risk (and excessive 2-month delay) for your customers.

SS could also note which models do not have the precharge resistor, so a DIY customer can use that if he wants a more complicated solution that is under his control.

if we can find any issues specifically we will specifically note them
i.e. the fxr 3524 needing 4 packs to start it (other batteries have issues with this gen of outback too)

The schneider snafu here is that no matter how hard we try all XW inverters work flawlessly with the packs and regardless some people are on this forum pushing misinformation (most of whom have never used the combos they affirm do not work)

 

[houseofancients]

I get the struggle.

Customer has the inverter that works with every battery except that one.

SS tests that exact battery on the same equipment model (and others) and the battery works fine.

Where, exactly, is the fault?

Did the customer have a communication cable hooked up? Was it talking correctly? Try it in "dumb" mode to rule it out? I assume the customer went through all the troubleshooting of that sort with SS.

If it were me, I'd swap the battery out in a goodwill gesture. And then, if it STILL doesn't work, then it has to be an issue on the customer's setup end because it has been tested and verified that those batteries and those inverters will work with each other. Having one that is wonk can happen. Two in a row? Probably not, it is more likely the other equipment has a quirk.

Before anyone rages on me on that thing - I have done a LOT of troubleshooting of various equipment over the years. Sometimes, you do run into instances where something SHOULD work, and it works with everything else, but for some reason, one particular piece just won't work with another in that particular setup. Why? Who knows. Electronics can be weird sometimes.

I have no dog in the fight, just offering my 2 cents.

that's the thing, in the end they did swap the batteries out, for more expensive models, and have been working since.
just have to remember thatś not a sustainable business model