Bud Martin
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Please ley us know if you are able to ship them and what form/procedures that you use, thanks.
New Supplier for 280Ah cells: Shenzen Basen
- Thread starter Haugen
- Start date
What I'm finding out is that to ship these, one needs to complete official training on shipping "dangerous goods" according to FedEx, these batteries are akin to shipping radioactive devices. ?
I was told that the course was about $150 and would take 4 hours.
After that, you have to declare the "DG" and put all the labels on the box and pay for the hazardous cargo when you ship.
The guy I spoke with kept asking how much lithium is in the cell. if there was less than 25 grams of lithium, we wouldn't have to worry about it.
I don't know the exact chemistry, but I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be called a lithium battery if an 11lb cell contained that little lithium. That's probably something to allow Tesla to ship their 18650 cells without extra cost.
I was told that the course was about $150 and would take 4 hours.
After that, you have to declare the "DG" and put all the labels on the box and pay for the hazardous cargo when you ship.
The guy I spoke with kept asking how much lithium is in the cell. if there was less than 25 grams of lithium, we wouldn't have to worry about it.
I don't know the exact chemistry, but I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be called a lithium battery if an 11lb cell contained that little lithium. That's probably something to allow Tesla to ship their 18650 cells without extra cost.
From your posts, it appears you have ordered multiple times. May I ask what supplier you are using? Do you have a link?
thanks
I believe the 25G rules only applies if you are shipping a single cell anyway. Even if you were under 25G (you're not), I think multiple lithium cells technically trigger the dangerous goods labeling requirement regardless of lithium content weight. I might be wrong on that, but that's what I remember from past discussions with our compliance group.
Shipping these things properly really is a big pain in the butt and most people just lie and work around the system, even some big companies you'd expect would know better. If I'm shipping a few packs of energizer lithium coin cells, I wouldn't be too concerned, but these big lifepo cells have a bunch of energy in them, even when at partial charge.
Some people rationalize that it's OK to cheat the system because there isn't huge danger shipping via ground service. What many don't know is that ground shipments can end up on airplanes sometimes. The biggest risk here is cells having an issue during flight. Think of some bone head throwing a few 280ah cells loose in a box with some bubble wrap. If that happens enough times, the numbers eventually catch up and there will be an event.
After reading some research on cell degradation at very low SOC. I don't see any reason cells can't be shipped at 2.2-2.5V. With the caveat that they get a minor charge boost before long term storage. At that SOC they have very little stored energy, and have essentially zero chance of starting a fire.
Specially LiFePo4 which are pretty stable even when punctured.
curiouscarbon
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link?
LFP overdischarge conflicting voltage limits
Hi there, Quote: Neither ISCr nor capacity fading occurs if the overdischarge is terminated before −12% SOC, where the first platform after the minimum voltage is located. Unquote I found this statement here: https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30248 From the above I concluded, that...
diysolarforum.com
Edit: Here is a research paper on very low states of charge. They conclude long periods of storage below 2.0V causes capacity loss.
Transportation Safety of Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries - A Feasibility Study of Storing at Very Low States of Charge - Scientific Reports
In freight classification, lithium-ion batteries are classed as dangerous goods and are therefore subject to stringent regulations and guidelines for certification for safe transport. One such guideline is the requirement for batteries to be at a state of charge of 30%. Under such conditions, a...www.nature.com
"Capacity dropped by more than 35% after 30 days of storage at 0.5 V, which posed a safety risk"
" In contrast, the 2.0 V storage results exhibited a marginal increase in storage capacity post 30 days, rising to a capacity fade of 7.1%. After 90 days of storage at 2.0 V the final capacity fade was 11.1%. Cells stored at 2.3 V exhibited capacity increase after 15 days, although within the error bar (due to cell to cell variation). However, there was a confirmed overall rise of 2.6% in cell capacity after 90 days for all three cells stored at 2.3 V."
"The Ohmic resistance (Ro) includes both ionic resistance of the electrolyte and electronic resistance of the electrode and current collectors28,29,30,31. Under low voltage storage, it is reported that the copper current collector reacts with electrolyte components resulting in corrosion16,17,18, leading to higher Ro"
"More specifically, when cells are stored at low voltages over an extended period, the copper current collector attached to the carbon electrode is oxidised to Cu2+ and dissolves into the electrolyte14, 19, 32. The subsequent reduction in contact between the current collector and active electrode material manifests as an increase in Ohmic resistance. Although previous studies such as that of Jeevarajan et al.33 reported slight increases of cell resistance under over-discharge conditions, the onset and rate of copper dissolution is cell specific."
"Under over-discharge conditions, over-deintercalation of lithium at the negative electrode can cause decomposition of the solid electrolyte interphase (SEI). When the cell is re-charged, new SEI film forms on the graphite anode. The growth of the SEI film leads to degradation of the electrochemical charge-transfer processes at the electrode-electrolyte interface15, 34, 35."
"Furthermore, the decomposition of SEI leads to gas generation at the negative electrode. The generation of gases, typically CO2 and CO, cause swelling within the cell14 and consequently a resistance rise due to electrical contact loss thorough delamination."
From what I have read and the DG guy told me, the 25g limit is per cell. That's why I used the 11lb cell and not the 44lb package content in my post.
Statute 173.185 section (5) (c) (iv) states that transportation by highway or rail only lithium content may be increased to 5g for cells or 25g for a battery and 60Wh for cells or 300Wh for batteries. (LOL!) provided the package is labeled "LITHIUM BATTERIES - FORBIDDEN FOR TRANSPORT ABOARD AIRCRAFT AND VESSEL".
Later on it reads that larger cells and batteries are Class 9 requiring all labels and packaging listed.
Bud Martin
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I just look at the box of the battery (one 280Ah) that was shipped by UPS to me from Santa Fe Springs Ca to me, I do not see any warning label, battery label warning. All it has is the sender address and my address and the weight of 10 lbs.
I also look at the box of the batteries (4) that was shipped by sea from BASEN and then shipped to my house by FEDEX, there is no label or anything to show that the box contains batteries. I wonder how it gets pass all those requirement.
I also look at the box of the batteries (4) that was shipped by sea from BASEN and then shipped to my house by FEDEX, there is no label or anything to show that the box contains batteries. I wonder how it gets pass all those requirement.
Yep, that all sounds familiar. Kudos to you for researching this and trying to do it the right way. The irony is that the rules are in place because sloppy and careless people have caused many issues in the past. I'd argue that those same sloppy people are probably ignoring all the rules and just making it harder and more expensive for all the folks trying to do it safe to begin with. So, the rules probably do little to improve safety since the sloppy shippers are still doing stupid stuff and ignoring the rules. Pretty much the way the world works when it comes to rules and laws, but it still sucks.
Yeah, I wonder what that new US-based LiFePO4 supplier bragging about their lower-cost shipping to the US is doing about this...
DerpsyDoodler
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what kind of boxes do battleborns arrive in?
Go to the beginning of this thread for a link to the Basen store on Alibaba.
CoachLife
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Because the default cutoff for Daly BMS is 2.2v, the guy is an idiot did you see him leaving those connected, stripped tails floating around all over the place? No fuse in his system, earth wires used as main conductors.... I wouldn't let him near any wiring on my rig!
CoachLife
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Basen cells come with studs, nuts and busbars.
curiouscarbon
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mine arrived with U shaped foam pads above and below the battery. it was very secure. foam seemed to be expanding type with plastic skin. both batteries came this way and without damage. purchased from battleborn via amazon
He was testing the cells for capacity. It's not going to be a permanent installation. However I don't like that BMS. As far as his videos he could relax on the editing and use a teleprompter ...lol. But I am nit picking.
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