those values are different than in portugal… I am currently in a flat with access to plumbed gas, so stove and boiler are gas and still I pay 50/month on electricity (and another 30 on gas). Once I move to new house I reckon about 130/month just for electricity (without any solar)
Newbie from Portugal building a house :)
- Thread starter gonmag8
- Start date
WYtreasure
It's not happy hour, I'm just like this.
Welcome to the party gonmag8. There are a few different latitudes in Portugal, which one is yours?
I think whatever you can do to produce and save your own electricity will be worth the expense. Who knows how valuable your homemade electricity will be in 4 years? Not one person on this planet knows the answer to that question.
Your flat roof with gravel is a wonderful & I assume secure location for the external components of your system. Some aggregates reflect "the spectrum you want" better than others. There's some homework for you.
Some folks use the term "Hybrid" to describe some All-In-One (AIO) units because they can charge the batteries from the grid, if needed. I have an AIO which can be connected (hardwired) or just plugged into the grid. My unit can draw as much as 30 Amps to charge the batteries.
I think you mentioned cheaper electricity at night. If solar has not topped off your batteries, and even if it did during the day you most likely will have a drain in the evening. The batteries could be recharged, alot or just enough to get you through the morning, in the middle of the night at a lower rate than during the day from the grid. Your AIO would not have to be connected to the grid, but we're talking about a BIG PLUG.
I understood something about, in my words, "going over a limit" could get you turned off. If I am correct, perhaps utilizing some of the heavy loads on Solar power only, could keep you out of trouble.
The best suggestion I have for your build is to insulate very well. Check the contractors work, they like to slack off there knowing it will be covered up. Another thought is to incorporate passive heating and cooling as much as possible.
Enjoy the show.
I think whatever you can do to produce and save your own electricity will be worth the expense. Who knows how valuable your homemade electricity will be in 4 years? Not one person on this planet knows the answer to that question.
Your flat roof with gravel is a wonderful & I assume secure location for the external components of your system. Some aggregates reflect "the spectrum you want" better than others. There's some homework for you.
Some folks use the term "Hybrid" to describe some All-In-One (AIO) units because they can charge the batteries from the grid, if needed. I have an AIO which can be connected (hardwired) or just plugged into the grid. My unit can draw as much as 30 Amps to charge the batteries.
I think you mentioned cheaper electricity at night. If solar has not topped off your batteries, and even if it did during the day you most likely will have a drain in the evening. The batteries could be recharged, alot or just enough to get you through the morning, in the middle of the night at a lower rate than during the day from the grid. Your AIO would not have to be connected to the grid, but we're talking about a BIG PLUG.
I understood something about, in my words, "going over a limit" could get you turned off. If I am correct, perhaps utilizing some of the heavy loads on Solar power only, could keep you out of trouble.
The best suggestion I have for your build is to insulate very well. Check the contractors work, they like to slack off there knowing it will be covered up. Another thought is to incorporate passive heating and cooling as much as possible.
Enjoy the show.
Thanks for the warm Welcome
Sintra/Coordinates
38.8029° N, 9.3816° W
yes, I am starting to look at inverters and an All-In-One seems the one I want, out of curiosity what one do you have ? yes, I am hoping to have a play with electricity costs vs charging the batteries, etc, might even build a Raspberry PI in the future to check the weather predictions and the battery SOC and decide how much to charge the batteries from the grid
but thats further away, for now I am trying to size my system.At the moment I am thinking an 5 to 8KW AIO inverter as my parents use about 20KWh a day for 9 months and then about 30KWh when the heating is ON . They have roughly the same loads I will have.
Also building a 48v 280Ah battery and starting to think about the pannels.
Learning in progress
Yes, the house is well insulated with ETICS and breaks on the thermal bridges (as much as possible).
WYtreasure
It's not happy hour, I'm just like this.
You're welcome,
At this point I am still collecting parts and pieces while learning, so nothing is turned on. My AIO is powmr 3000 watt, I also have an epever 6415AN and 16 100 watt newpowa panels. I'm feeling like my Vavo did 40 years ago, so assembly is slow.
This may come in handy:
www.suncalc.org/#/38.8,-9.4,11/2022.04.04/20:26/1/3
At this point I am still collecting parts and pieces while learning, so nothing is turned on. My AIO is powmr 3000 watt, I also have an epever 6415AN and 16 100 watt newpowa panels. I'm feeling like my Vavo did 40 years ago, so assembly is slow.
This may come in handy:
www.suncalc.org/#/38.8,-9.4,11/2022.04.04/20:26/1/3
Those POWMR are really cheap , I have never heard of them, and they seem to have warehouse in Germany
must read more about them
houseofancients
Solar Wizard
they are an mpp solar/voltronics clone, using cheaper parts and less to no supportThose POWMR are really cheap , I have never heard of them, and they seem to have warehouse in Germany
cheap and might work perfectly for you, but dont expect help if they dont
Bluedog225
Texas
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2019
- Messages
- 2,917
Sintra. Nice!
WYtreasure
It's not happy hour, I'm just like this.
The powmr is cheap cheap. The balance of my system is high quality. This AIO is my "if I don't make magic smoke, I will buy a nice one" training system. I have been saying that over and over for months.Those POWMR are really cheap , I have never heard of them, and they seem to have warehouse in Germany
Yes, much of what comes from china is a reverse engineered clone. Some of it gets badmouthed, some doesn't; but this really isn't the thread to chat about that.
This thread has not had any activity for a while but it will give you an idea of my learning experience.
Boss Lady says learn on the PowMr 3k inverter/charger + 8 100w panels or it's COAL in my stocking
So now I am on plan "C" and feel like I just came home from the dollar store. Where can I get some of these ?? Pushed the buy button: 8 Newpowa 100 watt panels; VOC 20.23; VMP 17.0; ISC 6.25; IMP 5.89 1 PowMr 3000W Solar Hybrid Inverter 24V DC to 110V-120V AC, Pure Sine Wave, 60amp MPPT Charge...
diysolarforum.com
Some of what I have learned is that it is extremely important to install high quality wires, fuses and circuit breakers.
Having the ability to make very good connections with the proper components and tools is also a high priority.
Knowing the relationship between each component is something I have been learning about for months.
My advice is to do more research than is necessary before purchasing your first component. That first purchase will limit the balance of your system.
If you can put the puzzle together before buying anything, well then you have done a great job.
Plan for future growth if at all possible. Power from the grid may get more expensive than we can imagine.
400bird
Solar Wizard
There's been lots of talk about using gas, almost like no one here's been watching the news, gas prices are probably going up in Europe for the foreseeable future.
Combined with the effort needed to add it to the project now, panels aren't that expensive.
Also, despite popular opinion, a good induction stove actually heats faster, with less waste than gas. It does use a lot to energy, but you can't say gas is better as a blanket statement, it's just not true. Sure, gas is better than the old resistive cool stoves! But, induction stoves work very well.
I'd recommend quality components and lots of research to make sure you understand your needs and the hardware capability. Buy once and trust it's going to be there for you. Or buy cheap and hope it's still working when you need it.
Combined with the effort needed to add it to the project now, panels aren't that expensive.
Also, despite popular opinion, a good induction stove actually heats faster, with less waste than gas. It does use a lot to energy, but you can't say gas is better as a blanket statement, it's just not true. Sure, gas is better than the old resistive cool stoves! But, induction stoves work very well.
I'd recommend quality components and lots of research to make sure you understand your needs and the hardware capability. Buy once and trust it's going to be there for you. Or buy cheap and hope it's still working when you need it.
mrzed001
Voice of reason
Those POWMR are really cheap , I have never heard of them, and they seem to have warehouse in Germany
We just get back a month old PowMr 5kW inverter with really hard burns on the motherboard.
Maybe I put it into the Up in Smoke
Don B. Cilly
Energetic energy padawan
WYtreasure
It's not happy hour, I'm just like this.
That's the hottest video I have seen in a while.
Don B. Cilly
Energetic energy padawan
I made it to show my kids the new cooktop I bought. They're both in America (the continent ;·)
Obviously, if I had bought an induction one, they would have worried that I got Alzheimer or something.
They're Italian (citizens, but also by parents), so they know a thing or two about cooking.
Luckily, so do I - not only I used to run a restaurant, but my mother was... well, long story.
I just can't believe how much people believe hype - about induction, in this case, but generally... in general ;·)
Also, on a DIY solar forum, recommending induction over gas, I find... rather obscene actually :·/
-
Obviously, if I had bought an induction one, they would have worried that I got Alzheimer or something.
They're Italian (citizens, but also by parents), so they know a thing or two about cooking.
Luckily, so do I - not only I used to run a restaurant, but my mother was... well, long story.
I just can't believe how much people believe hype - about induction, in this case, but generally... in general ;·)
Also, on a DIY solar forum, recommending induction over gas, I find... rather obscene actually :·/
-
WYtreasure
It's not happy hour, I'm just like this.
At this point in time, we heat and cook with natural gas, it's great. What happens when it no longer flows?
I think of it like this.
We can make my own electricity.
We can not make my own natural gas, propane or fuel for vehicles. Biodiesel and other homemade fuels are not an option for us.
If fuels become too expensive or unavailable, we can still heat and cook with a variety of electrical appliances.
Don B. Cilly
Energetic energy padawan
Apparently, you can make your own, and it's not difficult. "Natural gas" is basically methane. If you can't (be bothered), bootleggers will :·)
And if it gets to the point where methane/propane are not available in household quantities, then you'll probably need heavy-calibre ammunition - which also might be difficult to get, though you also could make your own - (to, say, go steal some panels, or just get your own back) more than you'd need gas. So... I wouldn't really go for that hype, either. Well, hopefully :·)
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And if it gets to the point where methane/propane are not available in household quantities, then you'll probably need heavy-calibre ammunition - which also might be difficult to get, though you also could make your own - (to, say, go steal some panels, or just get your own back) more than you'd need gas. So... I wouldn't really go for that hype, either. Well, hopefully :·)
-
WYtreasure
It's not happy hour, I'm just like this.
So, what are today's thoughts? ?Hi all.
I am new to solar but I have been playing with batteries in my profession for a few years, I am an automotive engineer by trade and have been involved in some mild-hybrid vehicles. I am familiar with electricity (mainly DC)
At the moment I am building a new house in Portugal and I am starting to think about what sort of solar system will I put in place.
The new house has 100m2 flat roof without shades that I plan to use for solar panels. The roof floor has white stone gravel so I was thinking would it be a good reflecting surface for bifacial panels ?
I have been watching some youtube videos and reading these forums for a while but even so I probably need to continue learning before deciding on anything.
Portugal has a few constrains that I must keep in mind.
- Exporting to the grid is not paid, so there is no point doing so
- No real benefit in having dual tariff as most companies charge a huge premium for daily rate and the night rate is just a little bit cheaper than fixed tariff
- We pay a fixed monthly fee based on the max power input of our mais board, (so think a peak shaving functionality would be beneficial here ?)
- If we drain more that that "hired" max power the board switches off and the house looses all electricity, this leads most people to overestimate the max power input to prevent power cuts in case by coincidence someone turns on all appliances at once.
- Customs are very problematic here, things often just disappear and in some cases duty paid parcels end up having to pay duty again
The house does not have access to gas or any other form of energy other than electricity, it will have the following main loads:
- 11KW heat pump (draws about 5KW electrical) but mainly used in winter when its colder and there is less sun
- Fridge / Freezer
- Induction Hob
- 2 x 1.5KW Sewers pumps
- 7m wide garage gate will have an interesting start-up current on the electric motor to open it
- Electric Oven
- Might get electric car in the future ?
With regards to space to accommodate the equipment, that shouldn't be a problem as the garage is plenty big
The idea is to be grid tied but produce as much as I can, What would you recommend in terms of inverter?
The microinverters seems to be out of the question due to wanting a 48V DC battery. Is a "all in one" inverter the best option ? but that will create a single point of failure in the system …
No budget as of yet as house is not finished. Not sure how much money will I have left
anyway, thanks for reading, happy to learn from you guys ?
Are you putting together a shopping list or learning about how to do it?
Thank you all.
Batteries cells are on order, went with the EVE LF280K, 16 of them via DOCAN.
Now, inverter …
I have seen one that seem to fit my needs from VOLTRONIC
autosolar.es
From reading the forum I suspect its the same unit as the MPP solar 8048MAX
But then this "unbranded" (primo Axpert) seems exactly the same at a much lower cost
www.solarpower24.it
is this a "cheap" copy or exactly the same unit with a different brand/face ?
What do you guys think of these inverters ?
Cheers.
Batteries cells are on order, went with the EVE LF280K, 16 of them via DOCAN.
Now, inverter …
I have seen one that seem to fit my needs from VOLTRONIC
Inversor Cargador 8000W 48V Voltronic MAX | al Mejor Precio
Inversor Cargador 8000W 48V Voltronic MAX. Compra el Inversor Axpert MAX Voltronic 8000W 48V al mejor precio.
But then this "unbranded" (primo Axpert) seems exactly the same at a much lower cost
SP24 Axpert MAX 8000-48 Inverter 8.0kw 48 volts Inverter Solar Photovoltaic Island Off-Grid
SP24 Axpert MAX 8000-48 Inverter 8.0kw 48 volts off grid island Photovoltaic inverter for off grid hybrid island system • Status indication with RGB lights • Integrated Wi-Fi for mobile monitoring (Android / iOS app available) • Supports USB On-the-Go function - Reserved communication…
www.solarpower24.it
is this a "cheap" copy or exactly the same unit with a different brand/face ?
What do you guys think of these inverters ?
Cheers.
houseofancients
Solar Wizard
it is the exactly the same one, i have 3 of these voltronics (axpert promo's) running for a year now ( 3 phase) and a pretty happy with themThank you all.
Batteries cells are on order, went with the EVE LF280K, 16 of them via DOCAN.
Now, inverter …
I have seen one that seem to fit my needs from VOLTRONIC
From reading the forum I suspect its the same unit as the MPP solar 8048MAXInversor Cargador 8000W 48V Voltronic MAX | al Mejor Precio
Inversor Cargador 8000W 48V Voltronic MAX. Compra el Inversor Axpert MAX Voltronic 8000W 48V al mejor precio.
But then this "unbranded" (primo Axpert) seems exactly the same at a much lower cost
SP24 Axpert MAX 8000-48 Inverter 8.0kw 48 volts Inverter Solar Photovoltaic Island Off-Grid
SP24 Axpert MAX 8000-48 Inverter 8.0kw 48 volts off grid island Photovoltaic inverter for off grid hybrid island system • Status indication with RGB lights • Integrated Wi-Fi for mobile monitoring (Android / iOS app available) • Supports USB On-the-Go function - Reserved communication…
is this a "cheap" copy or exactly the same unit with a different brand/face ?
What do you guys think of these inverters ?
Cheers.
they are being sold in europe mainly by power24.it out of italy, voltacon.es out of spain and another one in the uk.
i bought mine from italy
ho, nice, thank you, maybe you can help me figure something out that I cant seem to find in the documentation that I have read so far.
can these do peak shaving ? e.g. if I am pulling from the grid and I need 10KW, can I tell it to only let 5KW come from the grid and the invert supply the other 5? or is it more like a ON/OFF ?
Alternatively, If I am pulling from the inverter and I need 10KW will it supply 8KW and pull 2KW from the grid or will it just shut down and pull the 10KW from the grid ?
Thank you
can these do peak shaving ? e.g. if I am pulling from the grid and I need 10KW, can I tell it to only let 5KW come from the grid and the invert supply the other 5? or is it more like a ON/OFF ?
Alternatively, If I am pulling from the inverter and I need 10KW will it supply 8KW and pull 2KW from the grid or will it just shut down and pull the 10KW from the grid ?
Thank you
mrzed001
Voice of reason
These units can not.
If the sun is up then they lower the grid consumption as much as the PV generates (if enough PV power then nearly zero from grid).
But no such thing is possible from battery
