please help! New panels putting out very little energy

[Gracie8]

I am not familiar with that "all in one" unit, but like most others, the inverter part gets power from the batteries and then the panels either recharge the batteries, and/or supplements the batteries. So in full sun your 4 panels will barely be able to provide the power for the cooler. But that is what the batteries are for. The more batteries, the more load they can take up. Maybe someone else can run the exact numbers to be a bit more accurate. Adding a fifth panel in parallel won't hurt the combo unit. The unit will only draw as much power as it is able to. But as someone else noted, the cabling will need to be beefy.

12AWG 1 Pair Solar MC4 Y Parallel Branch Connectors MFF&FMM Pair​

12AWG 16.4FT Solar Extension Cables Wires with Female and Male MC4 Connectors​

6AWG 13 Inch Battery Interconnect Cable-two wires of 6 awg on each cable.​

If these all have to be replaced and I have barely enough power to run just the cooler, then perhaps the cheaper route is to replace the inverter/controller but need help to know specs. Would want to set them up to get as much watts as I can.

 

[mikefitz]

I don't understand all the numbers. Sorry.

The info provided with the 'all in one' is poor and not clear.

I am assuming you only have solar input and wish to power an AC load.
The solar panels you have, are rated such that with the standard test amount of solar radiation they will deliver 10.6 amps at 33.5 volts, thats 355 watts . The type of solar regulator built into the unit is a PWM type. Regardless of the panels specification, this type of controller will only allow current to flow, thus the maximum is 10.6 amps per panel into a 24 volt battery system, around 250 watts. Thus with one panel thats 250 watts into the battery or the inverter to convert to AC power. Regard the battery as an energy store buffer, if the inverter is not operational, the battery will store the power from the solar input.
Once the battery is charged, the inverter, that provides AC power, can take power from the solar and the battery.

Your goal is to power a cooler that takes 1050 watts for 4 hours, thats 4200 watt hours.

The solar input from the single panel under ideal conditions is 250 watts. Your location and weather conditions will determine the solar yield over the day, I will assume 5 ideal sun hours, thats 1250 watt hours for one panel, 4 panels will give 5000 watt hours.

So far so good, it seems there is more solar input power than that used for the cooler.

One we take into account the losses due to the inverter efficiency and perhaps less than ideal solar conditions there may not be enough coming in to meet the output requirement. Adding one more solar panel will help.

The all in one unit specification suggests a 55 amp limit on the solar input. With your panels at 10.6 amps you are limited to 5 panels to stay within the limit.

The viability of the system depends on solar yield you can expect in your location. A search on the internet will find the info for your location.

Mike

 

[Don B. Cilly]

running the swamp cooler for at least 4 hours which takes 1050 watts.

Is that 1000W an hour, or 1000W in four hours - making it 250/hour, though?
In the first case... forget it. Even if you have the batteries - and means to recharge them - and I guess the cooler will have to run when there is enough sun to recharge them (and make the place hot), a 3K inverter... it will run it, but, continuously, in high temperatures... it will just "panic". The fan will be on all the time, it will whine and whinge ;·), eventually it will give up.

In the second case... 250W continuous, the fan will be a bit of a bother, but it should do it.

In both cases, you might want to look into getting a 2KW "silent" inverter generator. It'll come handy to recharge your batteries on cloudy days/hungry nights too.

 

[Gracie8]

The info provided with the 'all in one' is poor and not clear.

I am assuming you only have solar input and wish to power an AC load.
The solar panels you have, are rated such that with the standard test amount of solar radiation they will deliver 10.6 amps at 33.5 volts, thats 355 watts . The type of solar regulator built into the unit is a PWM type. Regardless of the panels specification, this type of controller will only allow current to flow, thus the maximum is 10.6 amps per panel into a 24 volt battery system, around 250 watts. Thus with one panel thats 250 watts into the battery or the inverter to convert to AC power. Regard the battery as an energy store buffer, if the inverter is not operational, the battery will store the power from the solar input.
Once the battery is charged, the inverter, that provides AC power, can take power from the solar and the battery.

Your goal is to power a cooler that takes 1050 watts for 4 hours, thats 4200 watt hours.

The solar input from the single panel under ideal conditions is 250 watts. Your location and weather conditions will determine the solar yield over the day, I will assume 5 ideal sun hours, thats 1250 watt hours for one panel, 4 panels will give 5000 watt hours.

So far so good, it seems there is more solar input power than that used for the cooler.

One we take into account the losses due to the inverter efficiency and perhaps less than ideal solar conditions there may not be enough coming in to meet the output requirement. Adding one more solar panel will help.

The all in one unit specification suggests a 55 amp limit on the solar input. With your panels at 10.6 amps you are limited to 5 panels to stay within the limit.

The viability of the system depends on solar yield you can expect in your location. A search on the internet will find the info for your location.

Mike

I live in the second sunniest city in the country and the panels are set up with no shade at all. However, California has allowed fires to burn all summer, when simply calling out the national guard would have extinguished these huge fires. Enough is enough. I've been surrounded on 4 sides by fires for months. Over the past week, we have finally been able to see the sky again on some days. And the air quality is improving. Anyway, The high temps are staying between 90 and 104 of late. I can not predict, if we will go back to having an overcast by smoke sky or our typical bright blue cloudless sky. No end to fires until the rains start and keep coming.

Since its unpredictable, I am starting to look at inverters and controllers but I have absolutely no understanding of what specs to look for.

 

[Gracie8]

Is that 1000W an hour, or 1000W in four hours - making it 250/hour, though?
In the first case... forget it. Even if you have the batteries - and means to recharge them - and I guess the cooler will have to run when there is enough sun to recharge them (and make the place hot), a 3K inverter... it will run it, but, continuously, in high temperatures... it will just "panic". The fan will be on all the time, it will whine and whinge ;·), eventually it will give up.

In the second case... 250W continuous, the fan will be a bit of a bother, but it should do it.

In both cases, you might want to look into getting a 2KW "silent" inverter generator. It'll come handy to recharge your batteries on cloudy days/hungry nights too.

Per hour. I agree. I need a new inverter and controller. We have a small generator but expect to find it difficult to get enough gas for it to be the solution daily.

 

[Texas-Mark]

Is that 1000W an hour, or 1000W in four hours - making it 250/hour, though?
In the first case... forget it. Even if you have the batteries - and means to recharge them - and I guess the cooler will have to run when there is enough sun to recharge them (and make the place hot), a 3K inverter... it will run it, but, continuously, in high temperatures... it will just "panic". The fan will be on all the time, it will whine and whinge ;·), eventually it will give up.

Not sure why you think it won't work. mikefitz ran the numbers and it seems doable, especially with 5 panels. My understanding is this only needs to run the cooler during rolling blackouts (4-5 hours). Now if it needs to run longer, then yes, it may be an issue..

​

 

[Don B. Cilly]

Difficult to get enough gas? In California?
Believe, that kind of continuous power... gas is "cheaper".
Not necessarily money-wise - in the long run it isn't - but... headache-wise...

My understanding is this only needs to run for the cooler during rolling blackouts (4-5 hours).

As I said, the issue is the inverter. 1KW for a few minutes, not a problem. 1KW for 4 hours - continuous... try it

 

[Gracie8]

Not sure why you think it won't work. mikefitz ran the numbers and it seems doable, especially with 5 panels. My understanding is this only needs to run the cooler during rolling blackouts (4-5 hours). Now if it needs to run longer, then yes, it may be an issue..

​

If we do not have overcast skies from all the smoke pouring in, then it will work. In serial, it would have worked even with the smoke blocking out the sky. That was the goal. I can put money into beefier cords and set upin parallel or I can just put the money into finding an inverter/controller that will run it. It depends how much something like that would cost to buy and if I can return this one to buy that. But I have no idea what I am looking for to price it out/look around for a deal.

 

[Don B. Cilly]

Actually... they do sell 12/24V DC evaporative coolers - which would take the inverter out of the equation... much cheaper than a monster-beefy inverter...

 

[Texas-Mark]

As I said, the issue is the inverter. 1KW for a few minutes, not a problem. 1KW for 4 hours - continuous... try it

Maybe I am missing something, but he has a 3KW inverter. My suggestion was to see if what he already has still works.

 

[wiseacre]

See if you can return that inverter. Did you buy from Eco Worthy directly or off Amazon (DC House)?
It might be easier if you agree to purchase their 3500w inverter (only a few $ more)

I have the 3500w model and it's been running a year so far without problems. It's a bit larger than either of use need but you won't be pushing a smaller unit as hard. I like the extra oomph just in case, of what I don't know.

Do not buy an Eco Worthy Charge Controller
Then selecting a good charge controller is next. Most MPPT chargers accept 150v which will allow you to put your panels in series/parallel.
if you wire the panels 2s2p (2 sets of panels in series then wired in parallel to the charge controller.

A 100v , 30 amp charge controller should be suitable for what you have. I'd go larger to accommodate adding more panels.
an example on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/EPEVER-Contr...876461&pd_rd_wg=sgi2r&pd_rd_i=B07DK5B63K&th=1

Lastly is the Auto Transfer Switch in your current inverter. I'm assuming you don't really need it since you're more concerned about power outages than using the electric you make on a daily basis. If you want one they are available as a separate unit and easy to install.

Once you have all the components I'm sure there are more than enough people willing to walk you through the installation and how to set the charge controller for the batteries you have.

 

[Gracie8]

Maybe I am missing something, but he has a 3KW inverter. My suggestion was to see if what he already has still works.

That is an option. But 4 hours wont be enough to keep us alive if we see days in a row of 115 degree+ days like we did in May, June and July. Under those conditions the cooler has to run 10 hours to keep us under 80. It's a risk to run this lean. 4 hours is the bare minimum under the best conditions.

 

[Texas-Mark]

That is an option. But 4 hours wont be enough to keep us alive if we see days in a row of 115 degree+ days like we did in May, June and July. Under those conditions the cooler has to run 10 hours to keep us under 80. It's a risk to run this lean. 4 hours is the bare minimum under the best conditions.

Then you need more panels and more batteries (besides just a different inverter).

 

[Gracie8]

See if you can return that inverter. Did you buy from Eco Worthy directly or off Amazon (DC House)?
It might be easier if you agree to purchase their 3500w inverter (only a few $ more)

I have the 3500w model and it's been running a year so far without problems. It's a bit larger than either of use need but you won't be pushing a smaller unit as hard. I like the extra oomph just in case, of what I don't know.

Do not buy an Eco Worthy Charge Controller
Then selecting a good charge controller is next. Most MPPT chargers accept 150v which will allow you to put your panels in series/parallel.
if you wire the panels 2s2p (2 sets of panels in series then wired in parallel to the charge controller.

A 100v , 30 amp charge controller should be suitable for what you have. I'd go larger to accommodate adding more panels.
an example on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/EPEVER-Contr...876461&pd_rd_wg=sgi2r&pd_rd_i=B07DK5B63K&th=1

Lastly is the Auto Transfer Switch in your current inverter. I'm assuming you don't really need it since you're more concerned about power outages than using the electric you make on a daily basis. If you want one they are available as a separate unit and easy to install.

Once you have all the components I'm sure there are more than enough people willing to walk you through the installation and how to set the charge controller for the batteries you have.

Yes, I will try to just hook it up to two panels and batteries and if it all works then I can offer to buy an inverter in place of it. I did buy from Eco-worthy, not Amazon.

 

[Gracie8]

Thank You for shopping for me. Everyone is being so kind and helpful! I really appreciate it.

I'd go larger to accommodate adding more panels.
an example on Amazon:

Is the example the larger or do I go up from there? If up from there, on which spec?

When you say I can wire these all in serial parallel, are you noticing the panels are 24v? If I got two more panels, I can still use the same inverter and the size larger MMPT controller you linked or one up from there?

 

[Gracie8]

Then you need more panels and more batteries (besides just a different inverter).

yeah, okay. Can't do much more.
I am trying to buy one more panel but that's not an easy thing to get anyone to do. I'm not savy electronically to figure out a used panel that is a match, so I wrote A-1 solar which is who sold me the 5 panels. they have a 4 panel minimum and a 195 dollar shipping charge up to a set dollar amount. So 1 panel with expedited shipping 460ish. OUCH. I have 4 batteries once the second set get here. I think if the power is out everyone will go sit in one of the many lakes during the worst of the days. If I can't afford 10 hours on the worst days I hope I can get to 6-7 hours we can survive most days and sit in the lake for a few hours on the others.

 

[wiseacre]

Is the example the larger or do I go up from there? If up from there, on which spec?

When you say I can wire these all in serial parallel, are you noticing the panels are 24v? If I got two more panels, I can still use the same inverter and the size larger MMPT controller you linked or one up from there?

The example was for your current number of panels.
basically the voltage would be the primary spec to increase so you can wire more panels in series.

I believe you're still a bit confused about the panel voltage.
Can you take a photo of the panel's label and post it?
I think your panels are around 37v and 8 to10 Amp.
Nothing can really be calculated until the correct specs are known.

So far it looks like you will need more panels and batteries.
Panels first so you can run the swamp cooler without draining the batteries when the sun shines.
Batteries so you can run the cooler for a decent amount of time when the sun goes down.

I've missed what batteries you have.

Another option if you can't return the inverter
- keep the inverter and buy a charge controller.
The batteries don't care who charges them - you don't need to wire the panel cables to the inverter

I'm confused on the number of panels you have. You've said 4 and now 5.
if you have 5 panels - wire 4 in 2s2p and connect to the new charge controller
the odd panel can be wired to the inverter PV input

 

[Texas-Mark]

When you say I can wire these all in serial parallel, are you noticing the panels are 24v? If I got two more panels, I can still use the same inverter and the size larger MMPT controller you linked or one up from there?

You need to match things. If you have let's say a 24V inverter, you need a 24V battery bank. And your charge controller needs to output 24V (many auto sense the battery). Now a MPPT controller can take a higher input voltage from the panels. This allows you to use series strings on the panels. How many you can run in series, will depend on the max input voltage of the controller.

<edit> See prior post from wisacre too.

At this point I am getting confused because I don't know which direction you are going. IMO, you need to see if that inverter you have is working or not first, unless you want to start from scratch (except for the panels you already have).

 

[Gracie8]

You need to match things. If you have let's say a 24V inverter, you need a 24V battery bank. And your charge controller needs to output 24V (many auto sense the battery). Now a MPPT controller can take a higher input voltage from the panels. This allows you to use series strings on the panels. How many you can run in series, will depend on the max input voltage of the controller.

<edit> See prior post from wisacre too.

At this point I am getting confused because I don't know which direction you are going. IMO, you need to see if that inverter you have is working or not first, unless you want to start from scratch (except for the panels you already have).

I think I need to change that inverter/controller out in order to be able to be safe more days but I cant afford enough solar to prepare for the worst case. I can't hook all the panels up without more wires and "beefier" wires. I'm going to hook up just two to establish if it's in good repair. If it is, then I will either return or use it with the 5th left over panel if I cant get more panels to somewhat match which probably means looking at E-bay and used sites.

I want to do the best I can for my elderly family while spending around 500 more. I am sorry I have thrown out a few different options. Part of that comes because I was looking at the blue prints on this site. I looked at the 2000 watt plan and saw they only had 1000 watts of panels despite it being a 2000 watt plan. How does that happen? So that had me hoping I could do more with what I have somehow.

"If you have let's say a 24V inverter, you need a 24V battery bank."

Yes, so I bought two 12v batteries. but then had advice that I needed more so bought 2 more. I can do that, right?

 

[Gracie8]

The example was for your current number of panels.
basically the voltage would be the primary spec to increase so you can wire more panels in series.

I believe you're still a bit confused about the panel voltage.
Can you take a photo of the panel's label and post it?
I think your panels are around 37v and 8 to10 Amp.
Nothing can really be calculated until the correct specs are known.

So far it looks like you will need more panels and batteries.
Panels first so you can run the swamp cooler without draining the batteries when the sun shines.
Batteries so you can run the cooler for a decent amount of time when the sun goes down.

I've missed what batteries you have.

Another option if you can't return the inverter
- keep the inverter and buy a charge controller.
The batteries don't care who charges them - you don't need to wire the panel cables to the inverter

I'm confused on the number of panels you have. You've said 4 and now 5.
if you have 5 panels - wire 4 in 2s2p and connect to the new charge controller
the odd panel can be wired to the inverter PV input

Oh I am confused alright! No doubt about it. This is over my head.
Here are the batteries: https://www.eco-worthy.com/collecti...ies/products/100ah-12v-agm-deep-cycle-battery
I have 5 panels total but said 4 cause I've been told you can't wire 5 in series parallel.
I have 3 batteries and two matching on the way. They are all new.